Avengers Do you hope the Initiative suceeds or fails?

[ProjectX2]

The conflict in the implementation is interesting, but the idea itself is stupid.

Civil War was a decent story, but not because the Registration Act was cool.

See, if Marvel got someone like Grant Morrison to create a new superhero team for every state, then it would probably work.

 

[The Overlord]

I'm with Lil Brother -- I don't mind seeing initial successes, with hints that everything is not quite right, in the background. But in the long term, I'd much rather read a story about why the program unravels, and why it's not feasible to have a universe where superheroes are under government jurisdiction.

If you want to see the Initiative succeed, read The Authority, or any other late-90s 'wide screen' Widlstorm book. Heck, even Brubaker's The Authority: Revolution, from a couple of years ago.

All the best stories about superheroes working for the government have already been told. The only difference with the Initiative is that it's using established Marvel characters (which, to me, seems more like a limit rather than a possibility, because writers are more inclined not to do anything drastic to a character who has a dedicated following).

You what would be cool, if an army of super villains destroyed the Initiative. Villains slaugthering some the lesser hero teams and Tony has to beg the anti reg side to help him.

 

[ShadowPrime]

Don't understand this love affair with the Anti-Reg side. Never have. Never will, except as pure wish-fulfillment fantasy stuff. Which is fine - escapism is a part of super hero comics, to be sure!

Again, the Anti-Reg side, in a nutshell, is the pro vigilante side. It embraces the idea that anyone who works for the government at any level, must be a mindless goon or a jackbooted thug. In other words, anyone who acts at the behest of civil authority is a puppet or a stooge. Thus, all police, firefighters, soldiers, all members of law enforcement, etc, are mindless, amoral drones. The only "pure" path, the only "morally clean" path is to be answerable only to onesself.

In this mind set, anyone who puts on a mask and follows his OWN code - the law be damned! - is a hero. Laws? Who need 'em? Civil Rights? I will decide what rights you get - I will break and enter, confiscate evidence, use violence to get you to talk, destroy property, engage in fire fights on city streets, whenever and where-ever I choose to. Too bad if you don't like it. I am answerable to ME. Warrants? Never heard of them. Accountablity? For stooges. Training? If I feel like it. Rules of engagement? My own. Better clear the streets if I feel like cutting loose.

That is the Anti-Reg position in a nutshell. Standing up for the rights of anonymous vigilantes to put on masks, hide their identities, and do as they please. Utterly without any accountablity. Answerable to NO ONE.

In FICTION, vigilantes ... like Spiderman... or Wolverine... or the Punisher... may be cool. In real life, they would be a nightmare, harbingers of anarchy, and toxic to the whole idea of a system of laws and protections.

So can we, maybe, stop the morally righteous "posing" that goes with this Anti-Reg stuff? Please? Finally?

Shadow

 

[Ultimate Deadpool]

You tell 'em, Shadow Prime!!!

Besides, being a rogue hero doesn't make sense... at least not in real-life.

There are 24 hours in a day. You need to work at least 8 hours a day to pay the bills and put food on the table. You need about an hour a day for bathroom breaks, another hour a day for meals, a half an hour to shower and shave, and at least 8 hours of sleep. All of that takes up 18 and a half hours of your day. Then comes laundry, grocery shopping, a social life, exercise... who, other than Batman or Iron Man, could really be a superhero?
And not only that, but you wouldn't just stumble upon crimes and super-villains in real life. It's most likely that you'd probably be able to stop one or two muggings a year, and maybe help the police now and then in a chase... if your power allows for it.

If you were working for the government, you'd get paid every time you put on your costume and you'd be part of a network keeping track of criminal activities. You'd also get expert training. Because, honestly, if any of you guys got powers... would you really be able to save the day? Doubtful, and that's what I find unbelievable about superheroes. They're just average schmucks who get powers and then bam! They're unbeatable sentinels of justice.

If you want to see the Initiative succeed, read The Authority, or any other late-90s 'wide screen' Widlstorm book. Heck, even Brubaker's The Authority: Revolution, from a couple of years ago.

Aren't the Authority the government?

 

[The Overlord]

Don't understand this love affair with the Anti-Reg side. Never have. Never will, except as pure wish-fulfillment fantasy stuff. Which is fine - escapism is a part of super hero comics, to be sure!

Again, the Anti-Reg side, in a nutshell, is the pro vigilante side. It embraces the idea that anyone who works for the government at any level, must be a mindless goon or a jackbooted thug. In other words, anyone who acts at the behest of civil authority is a puppet or a stooge. Thus, all police, firefighters, soldiers, all members of law enforcement, etc, are mindless, amoral drones. The only "pure" path, the only "morally clean" path is to be answerable only to onesself.

In this mind set, anyone who puts on a mask and follows his OWN code - the law be damned! - is a hero. Laws? Who need 'em? Civil Rights? I will decide what rights you get - I will break and enter, confiscate evidence, use violence to get you to talk, destroy property, engage in fire fights on city streets, whenever and where-ever I choose to. Too bad if you don't like it. I am answerable to ME. Warrants? Never heard of them. Accountablity? For stooges. Training? If I feel like it. Rules of engagement? My own. Better clear the streets if I feel like cutting loose.

That is the Anti-Reg position in a nutshell. Standing up for the rights of anonymous vigilantes to put on masks, hide their identities, and do as they please. Utterly without any accountablity. Answerable to NO ONE.

In FICTION, vigilantes ... like Spiderman... or Wolverine... or the Punisher... may be cool. In real life, they would be a nightmare, harbingers of anarchy, and toxic to the whole idea of a system of laws and protections.

So can we, maybe, stop the morally righteous "posing" that goes with this Anti-Reg stuff? Please? Finally?

Shadow

It is simple the pro reg side is run by total A-holes and ultimately the SHRA limits story telling possibilities. During CW Stark imprisoned super heroes without trial in the N-Zone, had an army of psychopthic super villains as shock troops and tried to start with Atlantis to drum up support for the SHRA.

Also it limts story telling potenial in the long run, how super villains supposed to pose a threat to the heroes, when the heroes are better organized and have better resources?

You tell 'em, Shadow Prime!!!

Besides, being a rogue hero doesn't make sense... at least not in real-life.

There are 24 hours in a day. You need to work at least 8 hours a day to pay the bills and put food on the table. You need about an hour a day for bathroom breaks, another hour a day for meals, a half an hour to shower and shave, and at least 8 hours of sleep. All of that takes up 18 and a half hours of your day. Then comes laundry, grocery shopping, a social life, exercise... who, other than Batman or Iron Man, could really be a superhero?
And not only that, but you wouldn't just stumble upon crimes and super-villains in real life. It's most likely that you'd probably be able to stop one or two muggings a year, and maybe help the police now and then in a chase... if your power allows for it.

If you were working for the government, you'd get paid every time you put on your costume and you'd be part of a network keeping track of criminal activities. You'd also get expert training. Because, honestly, if any of you guys got powers... would you really be able to save the day? Doubtful, and that's what I find unbelievable about superheroes. They're just average schmucks who get powers and then bam! They're unbeatable sentinels of justice.



Aren't the Authority the government?

Yeah and in real life time travel doesn't exist and radioactive spiders don't give you super powers. What works in the works in the real world, doesn't work in MU? The point of comics is tell good stories, not be realistic. You have to supsend your disbelief a bit. Realstically every super hero would have been killed and stayed dead a year into their careers, but that's not going to happen. SHRA would make sense in the real world, but in MU it just limits story telling potenial.

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

I don't like giving my name and every information about me for an organization that gets attacked daily. Seriously, it's a matter of time for someone to get the information and use it. Then what? Everyone that you love are in danger.
And in the same way that you guys put yourself as normal civilians in the marvel universe, try to put yourselves as a mutant. What would you think about a law that makes you go to war even if you have the ability to fart with your fingers?
So, if you see a rape or a thief running away, don't try to do good. Just wait for the registrated superhero to come, I mean, he will come in time to put the corpse in the ambulance or tell the cops and the media how the thieves got away.

Anyway, I want it to fail. I'm reading New Warriors now, I have to cheer for them.

 

[Ultimate Deadpool]

It is simple the pro reg side is run by total A-holes and ultimately the SHRA limits story telling possibilities. During CW Stark imprisoned super heroes without trial in the N-Zone, had an army of psychopthic super villains as shock troops and tried to start with Atlantis to drum up support for the SHRA.

That's just the circumstances of the Civil War, and it'll have to be dealt... alot of story possibilities. But there has been a SHRA in Canada for a very long time, probably since the beginning, and I don't think it has ever affected their stories.

Also it limts story telling potenial in the long run, how super villains supposed to pose a threat to the heroes, when the heroes are better organized and have better resources?

I dunno... ask the Justice League, lol.

I don't like giving my name and every information about me for a organization that gets attacked daily. Seriously, it's a matter of time for someone to get the information and use it. Than what? Everyone that you love are in danger.
And in the same way that you guys put yourself as normal civilians in the marvel universe, try to put yourselves as a mutant. What would you think about a law that makes you go to war even if you have the ability to fart with your fingers?
So, if you see a rape or a thief running away, don't try to do good. Just wait for the registrated superhero to come, I mean, he will come in time to put the corpse in the ambulance or tell the cops and the media how the thieves got away.

Anyway, I want it to fail. I'm reading New Warriors now, I have to cheer for them.

But aren't the heroes attacked daily? Haven't their identities been discovered by various different villains, only for that villain to die, get mind-wiped, or retconned? But then what about the heroes like the Fantastic Four who don't have secret identities? Or heck, even the everyday police officer? If the heroes were part of an organization, they would be better protected... by each other.

And yeah, the current incarnation of the SHRA is very flawed... because Tony's a jackass with a power rush. After the wrongs are righted during Civil War and the bad people ::coughTonycough:: are brought to justice, SHRA can be amended and made better... maybe even made to seem like it doesn't even exist? Sure it will exist, but it will have almost no barrings on an average story, and would ultimately benefit the heroes.

 

[The Overlord]

That's just the circumstances of the Civil War, and it'll have to be dealt... alot of story possibilities. But there has been a SHRA in Canada for a very long time, probably since the beginning, and I don't think it has ever affected their stories.
.

Canada has about maybe a dosen super heroes at most, that can't compare to the hundreds of super heroes in MU. Plus they have one title that focuses on Canada vs. dosens of titles that focuses on the US. Plus all this fallout isn't be dealt with correctly, Cap has to pay for is decision with his life, while Tony gets to wield a huge amount of power and doesn't have to pay for his crimes as at all. Frankly I hate this new status quo, heroes are either hunted by the law or government stooges, there is no middle ground for storytelling.

I dunno... ask the Justice League, lol.

The difference is DC actually does things with its villains, instead of just ignoring them. Look at the huge army of villains in Infinity crisis and compare that to the villains doing jack in CW. Super villains forcing the initiative to crash and burn will do a lot to restore their cred.

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

But aren't the heroes attacked daily? Haven't their identities been discovered by various different villains, only for that villain to die, get mind-wiped, or forgotten about all together? But then what about the heroes like the Fantastic Four who don't have secret identities? Or heck, even the everyday police officer? If they were part of an organization, they would be better protected... by each other.

And yeah, the current incarnation of the SHRA is very flawed... because Tony's a jackass with a power rush. After the wrongs are righted during Civil War and the bad people ::coughTonycough:: are brought to justice, SHRA can be amended and made better... maybe even made to seem like it doesn't even exist? Sure it will exist, but it will have almost no barrings on an average story, and would ultimately benefit the heroes.

Heroes have like what? 3 villains each? Shield is attacked by all terrorist factions, villains, dictators and cosmic entities. I take my chances with Green Goblin anyday.
Also, I think that the Hero-Villain relationship is much more personal than a Cop-Crook. Some villains are just villains because they want to **** some heroes life. I don't think we have bad guys that do that with cops...
With this war on anti-reg they are just making the number of heroes smaller and the collateral damage MUCH bigger. They take half of the city each time they see spiderman taking out a BAD GUY.
Other thing, why a guy like Spiderman or Black Panther have to register? They already fought Galactus and survived. If that isn't much more than any training in your life, I wonder what would it be. Because the main reason for the registration is to train the heroes so they don't **** up. What is their excuse for capturing Spiderman? "Sorry, you can't be a good guy because you never had any training!"

 

[Ultimate Deadpool]

Canada has about maybe a dosen super heroes at most, that can't compare to the hundreds of super heroes in MU. Plus they have one title that focuses on Canada vs. dosens of titles that focuses on the US. Plus all this fallout isn't be dealt with correctly, Cap has to pay for is decision with his life, while Tony gets to wield a huge amount of power and doesn't have to pay for his crimes as at all. Frankly I hate this new status quo, heroes are either hunted by the law or government stooges, there is no middle ground for storytelling.

Most of the superheroes in Marvel are mutants, and almost all of the good ones are part of the X-Men. They are also all in Xavier's files, and all have been or are being trained, and have tons of resources... holy crap! The X-Men are like a mini SHRA!!

But you're just seeing things as they are now, it can't go on forever and it'll get better. Tony will be beaten, the hero-hunting will stop, and probably no more criminal offense to using your powers without being registered.

The difference is DC actually does things with its villains, instead of just ignoring them. Look at the huge army of villains in Infinity crisis and compare that to the villains doing jack in CW. Super villains forcing the initiative to crash and burn will do a lot to restore their cred.

Marvel's villains are taking advantage. If they're not hunting down and beating up rogue heroes, they are taking advantage of the lack of superheroes. Infact, the Green Goblin is playing a big part in the SHRA right now behind the scenes, pulling strings and manipulating things. That's where alot of trouble is coming from.

Heroes have like what? 3 villains each? Shield is attacked by all terrorist factions, villains, dictators and cosmic entities. I take my chances with Green Goblin anyday.
Also, I think that the Hero-Villain relationship is much more personal than a Cop-Crook. Some villains are just villains because they want to **** some heroes life. I don't think we have bad guys that do that with cops...
With this war on anti-reg they are just making the number of heroes smaller and the collateral damage MUCH bigger. They take half of the city each time they see spiderman taking out a BAD GUY.
Other thing, why a guy like Spiderman or Black Panther have to register? They already fought Galactus and survived. If that isn't much more than any training in your life, I wonder what would it be. Because the main reason for the registration is to train the heroes so they don't **** up. What is their excuse for capturing Spiderman? "Sorry, you can't be a good guy because you never had any training!"

Are the heroes going to be living at S.H.I.E.L.D.'s base? And when things get bad, do heroes not help S.H.I.E.L.D. anyway? Avengers fight Hydra, and Dr. Doom, and Thanos all the time, without being part of S.H.I.E.L.D. or the government, and other heroes sometimes get involved too. So I really wouldn't tell the difference if they were all working together or not.

It happens to cops. Not alot, but it happens. You bust someone who has connections... you know how it goes.

Black Panther is already an expert, and Spidey has had 30 years of experience... but what about when Spidey first started? The SHRA is out of control right now, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that there are alot of heroes out there who are novices and shouldn't be allowed to run wild without precautions. The SHRA is bad right now because people like Iron Man and Green Goblin are in control... we need Nick Fury back!

 

[Hibiki]

Don't understand this love affair with the Anti-Reg side. Never have. Never will, except as pure wish-fulfillment fantasy stuff. Which is fine - escapism is a part of super hero comics, to be sure!

Again, the Anti-Reg side, in a nutshell, is the pro vigilante side. It embraces the idea that anyone who works for the government at any level, must be a mindless goon or a jackbooted thug. In other words, anyone who acts at the behest of civil authority is a puppet or a stooge. Thus, all police, firefighters, soldiers, all members of law enforcement, etc, are mindless, amoral drones. The only "pure" path, the only "morally clean" path is to be answerable only to onesself.

In this mind set, anyone who puts on a mask and follows his OWN code - the law be damned! - is a hero. Laws? Who need 'em? Civil Rights? I will decide what rights you get - I will break and enter, confiscate evidence, use violence to get you to talk, destroy property, engage in fire fights on city streets, whenever and where-ever I choose to. Too bad if you don't like it. I am answerable to ME. Warrants? Never heard of them. Accountablity? For stooges. Training? If I feel like it. Rules of engagement? My own. Better clear the streets if I feel like cutting loose.

That is the Anti-Reg position in a nutshell. Standing up for the rights of anonymous vigilantes to put on masks, hide their identities, and do as they please. Utterly without any accountablity. Answerable to NO ONE.

In FICTION, vigilantes ... like Spiderman... or Wolverine... or the Punisher... may be cool. In real life, they would be a nightmare, harbingers of anarchy, and toxic to the whole idea of a system of laws and protections.

So can we, maybe, stop the morally righteous "posing" that goes with this Anti-Reg stuff? Please? Finally?

Shadow

Then why do police love the Punisher?

 

[The Overlord]

Most of the superheroes in Marvel are mutants, and almost all of the good ones are part of the X-Men or X-Factor who are all in Xavier's files... their like a mini SHRA! lol.

But you're just seeing things as they are now, it can't go on forever and it'll get better. Tony will be beaten, the hero-hunting will stop, and probably no more criminal offense to using your powers without being registered..

Then why bother with it, if they are just going to ignore it. Its like when the said m-Day was going to change everything, but for the most part the only mutants that were depowered were mutants no one cared about and those that were important often found a way to get their powers back. It was a waste. Seriously either to gets in the way or you ignore it.

Marvel's villains could just as easily do it, but that doesn't change the fact that DC's heroes have tons of resources available to them.

Infact, the Green Goblin is playing a big part in the SHRA right now behind the scenes, pulling strings and manipulating things. That's where alot of trouble is coming from.

Yeah, DC's heroes have a lot of resources, but they also make their villains threats to the heroes, not just ignore them.

Besides Gobby working the gov is stupid, they should have their heads examined for hiring a known criminal psychopath to run an important program like that. Seriously the government is insane if they hunting Spidey, while giving Gobby a desk job is a good idea. Besides villains are more scary when they serve their own agenda, rather than act as government stooges.

 

[Ice]

Don't understand this love affair with the Anti-Reg side. Never have. Never will, except as pure wish-fulfillment fantasy stuff. Which is fine - escapism is a part of super hero comics, to be sure!

Again, the Anti-Reg side, in a nutshell, is the pro vigilante side. It embraces the idea that anyone who works for the government at any level, must be a mindless goon or a jackbooted thug. In other words, anyone who acts at the behest of civil authority is a puppet or a stooge. Thus, all police, firefighters, soldiers, all members of law enforcement, etc, are mindless, amoral drones. The only "pure" path, the only "morally clean" path is to be answerable only to onesself.

You couldn't be more further away from the truth.

I'm with the anti-side, but I don't think that pro-side are mindless idiots or anything. Only those who have the power and can't use it right (i.e. Tony). I'm not so much "pro-vigilante" like you make it out to be. I am for it if whoever the person is has no choice but to be one because of whatever situation they are in that has them in that spot (i.e. Peter Parker).

In this mind set, anyone who puts on a mask and follows his OWN code - the law be damned! - is a hero. Laws? Who need 'em? Civil Rights? I will decide what rights you get - I will break and enter, confiscate evidence, use violence to get you to talk, destroy property, engage in fire fights on city streets, whenever and where-ever I choose to. Too bad if you don't like it. I am answerable to ME. Warrants? Never heard of them. Accountablity? For stooges. Training? If I feel like it. Rules of engagement? My own. Better clear the streets if I feel like cutting loose.

Yeah, you're taking this way too seriously.

That is the Anti-Reg position in a nutshell. Standing up for the rights of anonymous vigilantes to put on masks, hide their identities, and do as they please. Utterly without any accountablity. Answerable to NO ONE.

Once again, you couldn't be further from the truth.

In FICTION, vigilantes ... like Spiderman... or Wolverine... or the Punisher... may be cool. In real life, they would be a nightmare, harbingers of anarchy, and toxic to the whole idea of a system of laws and protections.

Of course in comics they're cool and real life they're not. IT'S A ****ING COMIC BOOK WORLD!!!

So can we, maybe, stop the morally righteous "posing" that goes with this Anti-Reg stuff? Please? Finally?

Shadow

Sure we can stop this. Anything else we can do because you don't like it? Want us to change our tastes to yours? Our opinions maybe? What if you don't like what we read? Should we only get what you like? :roll:

 

[TwilightEL]

I think both the Anti-Reg and the Pro-Reg are ****ing idiots. Anarchy like Kingdom Come or a near-police state where good is defined as useful to Tony Stark and evil is anyone who challenges him? Brilliant! I'll pick the lesser of two evils.

I think Tony's plans are going to fail. Maybe by Girltron, maybe by Hulk, maybe by cirrhosis, but either way he's going to shuffle off this moral coil. And then all his precious plans are going to go to waste because nobody knows half of what he's been doing and either control of the Initiative will be snapped up by someone evil or the resulting power vacuum will implode it.

Ice said pretty much everything else.

 

[Ultimate Deadpool]

Then why bother with it, if they are just going to ignore it. Its like when the said m-Day was going to change everything, but for the most part the only mutants that were depowered were mutants no one cared about and those that were important often found a way to get their powers back. It was a waste. Seriously either to gets in the way or you ignore it.

Never believe the hype. Everything that happened in House of M was something they could sweep away under the carpet, but Civil War is going to have ramifications. While the SHRA can level off and have no real merit anymore in casual stories, none of the heroes will be able to forget what they did to each other; betraying one-another and hunting each other down like vermin.

Yeah, DC's heroes have a lot of resources, but they also make their villains threats to the heroes, not just ignore them.

Well, what does DC's villains really do in contrast to Marvel's villains?

Besides villains are more scary when they serve their own agenda, rather than act as government stooges.

I don't think they're stooges, I think they're doing exactly what they want to do... hunt and maim superheroes.

I think both the Anti-Reg and the Pro-Reg are ****ing idiots.

True

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

I think both the Anti-Reg and the Pro-Reg are ****ing idiots. Anarchy like Kingdom Come or a near-police state where good is defined as useful to Tony Stark and evil is anyone who challenges him? Brilliant! I'll pick the lesser of two evils.

I think Tony's plans are going to fail. Maybe by Girltron, maybe by Hulk, maybe by cirrhosis, but either way he's going to shuffle off this moral coil. And then all his precious plans are going to go to waste because nobody knows half of what he's been doing and either control of the Initiative will be snapped up by someone evil or the resulting power vacuum will implode it.

Ice said pretty much everything else.

Not going to happen, even before the registration the heroes always took care about other heroes. If one of them ****s up he will lick Captain America's boot.

 

[Foolsfolly]

I want to see the story of a bunch of poor freaks who somehow got powers and are forced by the government to give up their life, loved ones, and security to fight in battles with insane super villains.

That's a story potential that Slott's title could really work well, but isn't.

I want to see scared kids drafted to fight battles beyond them while training. See that the "security" of the majority costs these poor kids their liberty.

There's a few years of story before the Initiative fails, and it will this is mainstream comics before 2015 Spidey will be webslinging with his identity unknown and Steve Rogers will be giving the Red Skull his *** in a doggiebag.

But there's some good stories that I just don't see Marvel taking.

 

[The Overlord]

Never believe the hype. Everything that happened in House of M was something they could sweep away under the carpet, but Civil War is going to have ramifications. While the SHRA can level off and have no real merit anymore in casual stories, none of the heroes will be able to forget what they did to each other; betraying one-another and hunting each other down like vermin.

Could be retconned though, Tony was been mind controlled or something. A lot fans think Tony's character has been damage to the point where he can't be redeemed, so some of them would support that.

Regardless I still hate this new status quo and I have seen no evidence it level off, without being ignored. Frankly this new status quo sucks.

Well, what does DC's villains really do in contrast to Marvel's villains?.

DC villains actually do something (see Infinite Crisis) rather becoming slaves of the government or doing nothing (see CW).

I don't think they're stooges, I think they're doing exactly what they want to do... hunt and maim superheroes.?.

The governemnt decides which super heroes they attack and when. That is being a a stooge. Plus the government has nano probes to control their villainious pawns, it makes them way less threatening. I mean Bullseye won't go on random killing sprees anymore because he is on a government leash, that makes less dangerous and makes him a stooge.

 

[Ultimate Deadpool]

I want to see the story of a bunch of poor freaks who somehow got powers and are forced by the government to give up their life, loved ones, and security to fight in battles with insane super villains.

I wouldn't go that far. They may be forced to fight crime, but no different than a cop would have to fight crime... I'd imagine. They'd have a time card, they'd still have a social life, and they'd still be able to see their loved ones.

I have seen no evidence it level off, without being ignored. Frankly this new status quo sucks.

I think that's because it's not over yet... or, is it supposed to end?

The governemnt decides which super heroes they attack and when. That is being a a stooge. Plus the government has nano probes to control their villainious pawns, it makes them way less threatening. I mean Bullseye won't go on random killing sprees anymore because he is on a government leash, that makes less dangerous and makes him a stooge.

You have a point, I forgot about the nano probes. But they are more like a shock collar, they can still cut around the corners... or spines... if they don't get caught.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Wow......there are a lot of good ideas here and a lot of dumb ideas.

I'll let you all decide which is which.

And then there's those select few that are taking this way too seriously. I mean for reals.



I still stand by the fact that trying to use real-world logic here is like trying to race in the Olympics with one leg----pointless. All you're doing is negating yourself. And besides...we've already had the arguements about whether the RA/Initiative is a good idea.




I'm with Foolsfolly here. There are a lot of good stories and opportunities that Marvel is missing. Slott's "Initiative" is such a disappointment because it's a great concept that is hindered by poor execution.