double Ultimizations

compound

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In this week's Ultimates 2 #9, we saw a new character being named, who represents a character from 616 continutiy, who was supposedly already Ultimized in an earlier series.

Now, it's most definitely another character taking over the same role and code-name as the previous one. I have no problem with that. In this case, it makes sense, because of the nature of the character.

However, it sets an interesting precedent for the 'ground rules' of the Ultimate Universe...

For example, it would now be possible and reasonable for there to be a separate Luke Cage who is different from the Power Man from the Defenders(whose civilian alter ego was never properly named).

Of course, this is nothing new -- there have been characters designated by Roman numerals in superhero comics for a long time.

But, of course, we'd like to believe that the Ultimate U is unique, in that it avoids such messy limitations.

So, what I want to know is, under what circumstances (if any) do you believe "double Ultimizations" are acceptable?
 
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Entropy

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compound said:
In this week's Ultimates 2 #9, we saw a new character being named, who represents a character from 616 continutiy, who was supposedly already Ultimized in an earlier series.

Now, it's most definitely another character taking over the same role and code-name as the previous one. I have no problem with that. In this case, it makes sense, because of the nature of the character.

However, it sets an interesting precedent for the 'ground rules' of the Ultimate Universe...

For example, it would now be possible and reasonable for there to be a separate Luke Cage who is different from the Power Man from the Defenders(whose civilian alter ego was never properly named).

Of course, this is nothing new -- there have been characters designated by Roman numerals in superhero comics for a long time.

But, of course, we'd like to believe that the Ultimate U is unique, in that it avoids such messy limitations.

So, what I want to know is, under what circumstances (if any) do you believe "double Ultimizations" are acceptable?

I take it you're referring to
Crimson Dynamo

Well, this is my thought. Said character was supposedly ultimized, but was never named in the series and was basically used as a throw away character. The character has now been ultimized again, but with a different appearance, origin, and agenda. He has also been specifically named. In my opinion, this was a matter of authors liberty to use a character who in the context of a previous story only POSSIBLY appeared. In regards to this type of ultimizing, I don't have much of a problem. Actually creating and developing a character vs throwing it in as an offhand reference ranks higher on the scale for me.

Now, I don't think this should be a precedence with other characters. For instance, Power Man's civilian identity was not specifically mentioned, but all the features of him (sans powers) were shown and it would be cheap and silly to do another one based on things that were not specifically said. I think this example of Extinction vs U2#9 is a unique situation. Double ultimizations should not be a precendent.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Luke Cage is a fantastic example, because I'd love to see a decent Luke Cage kicking *** in the Ultimate Universe... if they could tie that in with the Defender's Power Man, great, if not, then it can still be a good story.

What should NEVER happen would be the introduction of a character, like Sebastian Shaw from the Hellfire arc of UXM, and reintroduce him as a business leader elsewhere, with no reference to hellfire.

When it comes down to specific names that undoubtedly fulfill the role of a given character, they need to stay that name and that character. If not defined, then let a writer take a crack at them later

In regards to Ultimate Nightmare, that Crimson Dynamo was most definitely just a tribute to the original 616 CD... not a plot-important character that was named or identified in any way other than image.

Look at Ultimate Reed Richards for a good example of well-done Double Ultimatizations... It would be rediculous to have based the character off of the Team-up appearance.

He is the exception though, i don't want writers to set this as something okay to do repeatedly without precedence....

But its not the biggest deal in the world.
 

ProjectX2

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If in their first appearance they were named, then no, they shouldn't be ultimized again. If they weren't named, go ahead, which is what Millar did.
 

E

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I have no problem with the new
Crimson Dynamo
; he was never named and neither were any of the other supersoldiers in Ultimate Nightmare. If an explanation is needed, those "Ultimizations" could just be passed off as Version 1.0s. Experiments. Because that's exactly what they are. To find out that they were refined and redone would not only be acceptable, but expected to a degree.

And a "new" Luke Cage - that would be great. I wouldn't have any problem separating Ultimate Power Man from Ultimate Luke Cage.

I think Doc has it right - you don't want an existing character reintroduced like that. Sort of like how Eddie Brock was named as a reporter in USM before he became Peter's childhood buddy. :roll:
 

compound

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Come to think of it...
Crimson Dynamo is really not that big a deal.
And if there's any character that sets a precdent for duplicate Ultimizations, it's Vision.

But now it's prompting me to consider which characters might be likely to recieve the same treatment.

First one that comes to mind is Gladiator. Did they ever officially name Melvin Potter as the one who was pulling off that weird "Nurhachi" routine? If so, where?

Also, I've brought this up elsewhere, but there are definitely two young blond Patsy Walkers in the Ultimate Universe: Hellcat and the reporter from USM.
 
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Nurhachi

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compound said:
First one that comes to mind is Gladiator. Did they ever officially name Melvin Potter as the one who was pulling off that weird "Nurhachi" routine? If so, where?

He wasnt named Melvin Potter, but DeWolfe did call him Gladiator in the Hobgoblin arc
 

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