Dreamcasting # 1: The Dark Knight Returns

Willverine

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Might as well just get it started, see what happens. I suppose a fitting deadline to this should be a week from today, once it's over, voting begins. I suppose we can all vote through PMs... to me? I'm not sure. However the Ultimization game was voted on will work, if someone could fill me in on the details of that (Please).

So, to start it off... Select a cast (and crew, if you like) for:

THE DARK KNGHT RETURNS!

We're talking, of course, about the original Frank Miller story from 1986, not the sequel for Batman Begins. If you know the story, it shouldn't be too hard. If not, there's always Wikipedia and numerous other resources.

Rules/Difficulties:

1.) This has to be a fresh casting, with no actors who have previously played any of the roles. Voice talents from any animated series' are an exception. If you feel any character would be better represented using CGI, that is fine.

2.) You may use any actor, living or dead, as long as they are not covered in rule #1.

3.) Provide a brief yet comprehensive explanation of your choices, especially in the case of lesser-known actors.

4.) There is no extra credit, but feel free to add producers, directors or any other crew that may give your version of the story more life.

5.) You don't have to cover every single minor character in the film, but your cast must include:

Bruce Wayne/Batman (of course)
Robin
The Joker
Alfred Pennyworth
Jim Gordon
Harvey Dent/Two Face
Green Arrow
Superman
Dr. Wolper
Lana Lang
Ellen Yindel
Selina Kyle/Catwoman

6.) For the sake of timeliness, you may also elect to change certain background characters (i.e. substitute GW Bush for Reagan)

Go for it and have fun!​
 
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Zombipanda

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

Bruce Wayne/Batman - There's no question about this one. John Wayne, towards the end of his career. Let's say in the late 1960's/early 1970's. He's got the right grit for the role, and his build, even at that age, is perfect for the aged, take-no-**** pragmatist.

Robin - It came down to either Cybill Shepherd or Natalie Portman. The real issue is finding a young teenage actress who has the maturity to play a character like this. They both played similar characters at an unlegal age - Shepherd in Taxi Driver and Portman in the Professional. In the end, I think it comes down to Portman. Evie in V For Vendetta went through a very similar transformation as this version of Robin, and Natalie is a stone-cold fox, to boot. Put her in around 15, and a few years down the line she's the perfect age to play foxy Catwoman for Dark Knight Strikes Again.

The Joker - David Bowie. He's definitely got the look down, and he can run the gamut from catatonic to psychotic. Even more important, he has that surreal, almost fay quality that you get out of the DKR rendition of Joker. I'd say Bowie in the last ten years would be perfect.

Alfred Pennyworth - Anthony Hopkins, now. He was made for this role. Come on, now.

Jim Gordon - William Hurt, again, in present day. The guy plays the hard-nosed detective to a tee. He's already proven his chops in a number of noir-inspired flicks, and he has the weathered, grudging cop look that Gordon needs.

Harvey Dent/Two Face - For this role, you need someone who can rock a perfectly stable veneer, but portray this profound sort of insanity boiling right beneath the surface. I considered Willem Dafoe, but when it comes down to it, the perfect actor for the role is Orson Welles. Look at him in the Third Man. He played a character who was perfectly slick and absolutely charming, but when you saw him face to face, he was terrifyingly insane. Put him in then, at the height of the career, before he bloated up.

Green Arrow - Clint Eastwood, in the late 1980's. This is the pick I'm shakiest about, but I definitely think it would work. There's a distinct parallel between Green Arrow and Dirty Harry, and I think Clint Eastwood and ohn Wayne in the twilights of their careers would make *****in' counterpoints to each other.

Superman - Marlon Brandon, at the time of On The Waterfront. Superman's hard to do, because he's aged, but even so, he has to be a prime physical specimen. Also, the actor needs to have a good deal of self-righteousness, while still coming across as sympathetic. It reads to me as a real similar character to Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now, but obviously, Brando's look at that point in time wouldn't fly, so take Marlon Brando in his prime and use some aging make-up.

Dr. Wolper - Paul Giamatti. I can't place exactly why it would work, but I think it would. It's one of those bit roles that Giamatti could turn into gold with fantastic timing.

Lana Lang - I really don't remember much about the character except that she came across as a real pitbull. I think Glen Close really has the chops to throw down in the arena and stand up to the men that she'd be challenging in the broadcast arena.

Ellen Yindel - This is another really tough female character. Jodi Foster, around the early 90's or late 80's could phone this character in and still come across as perfect with it.

Selina Kyle/Catwoman - Gloria Swanson, from Sunset Boulevard. Stick her in at exactly that time and she's golden. She was beautiful and desired and now she's past her peak, and despite having a lot of fire in her, she knows it. The roles are incredibly close to each other.

The problem with the movie is so many characters are getting up there in age, and they all have such strong personalities. For the issue of the presidency, I wouldn't use a real-life president, but whoever's in charge HAS to be modeled after Reagan. I think the feel of the film is just too enmeshed in that era to not invoke that as the primary ambience.
 

Willverine

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

Here's mine...

Bruce Wayne/Batman - Burt Lancaster
After remembering a biography I watched on Lancaster, I decided he'd fit the bill in my vision of TDKR. Burt was always a tough-as-nails ladies man, which is exactly what Bruce Wayne is, with or without the mask. Also, Burt Lancaster was a "natural" gymnast and even worked in the circus as an acrobat. He was also one of the actors who really defined the phrase "action hero".

Burt as Batman from this story would be a lot like the role he played in "Tough Guys" with Kirk Douglas, Harry Doyle. A tough old guy... just without the comedy, and maybe a little younger... although, despite being in his 70's when that movie was made, he looked more late fifties.

Alfred Pennyworth - John Gielgud
Michael Caine was awesome in Batman Begins, and Michael Gough was consistent, so it's hard to top either choice, but I'd go with Gielgud, who played Hobson the butler in "Arthur" with Dudley Moore. It's not much of a stretch, and clearly he has experience as a butler.

Robin - Tatum O'Neal or Jodie Foster
Tatum O'Neal was the female pitcher in the original Bad News Bears movie with Walter Matthau. She was the tomboy who ended up playing on the all-boys team and usually, showing them up. She was spunky and irreverent, which is perfect for the role of the female Robin.

Jodie Foster is my other choice, mostly based on her performance in Taxi Driver as a street-smart, underage prostitute. Take the prostitute part out, though.

The Joker - John Malkovich
The Joker is supposed to be elderly in TDKR, but really, doesn't look much different from any other version of the character. I've always thought John Malkovich plays a great psycho, well... for that matter, he plays any role with a lot of expertise, which is why his films are usually a hit with critics. Really, playing the Joker wouldn't be too far off from Cyrus "The Virus" from Con Air, which was pretty much the only good thing about that movie, outside of Steve Buscemi (who would also make a decent Joker, but I'm saving my last "toss up" for another role.).

Also, after reading his bio on imdb.com, this quote piqued my interest:

"I'm drawn to a character with a lack of humanity. People give reasons for being cruel or sadistic but I think it is just a lack of humanity and concern for others. I think I'm good at them because I don't like them. Audiences are attracted to them but I hate them. It's strange."

Jim Gordon - Robert Duvall
Like Lancaster, Robert Duvall is another classic tough guy, and the perfect "speak softly but carry a big stick" kind of character actor. Gordon's never been much for action until there's no other alternative, but when it's time for that, he takes care of business. Duvall's filled those shoes plenty of times, just watch him in Falling Down or even in The Godfather films.

Two-Face - Ed Harris
Harris is an awesome actor, and meets both the physical and psychological (in character) requirements to play him. If you take a look at his body of work, he's played everything from the quiet type, to a good guy to a total psychopath, and those are all aspects of Harvey Dent's psyche. Dent's physical disfigurements had been healed in TDKR, and Harris is undoubtedly a pretty handsome fellow. I think he'd be a natural for this part.

Dr. Bartholomew Wolper - Christopher Lloyd or Vincent Schiavelli
Wolper was pretty eccentric, as you would have to be to approve of letting a psycho serial killer like the Joker free. Christopher Lloyd played the classic eccentric Doc Brown in "Back to the Future". Vincent Schiavelli defines the word "eccentric" and both of them have the gait appearance and poofy hair that Wolper had in the book.

Superman - Errol Flynn
In his prime (the 1930's), Flynn was in tip-top shape and throughout his career was considered not only a great actor but very handsome, with the chiseled features Superman should have. He was also no stranger to playing the hero. No doubt he had a touch of arrogance as well, which I've always thought should be an essential part of the Superman character. Too many times, he's been played as the humble do-gooder, but I think the Superman from TDKR is anything but. While everyone else in that version of the DC world was aging and feeling the effects, Superman was "eternally 30" (an actual quote from Frank Miller, I believe). Why wouldn't he feel just a little bit better than everyone else? I don't think Errol Flynn ever really played a character who got "shown up", but then again, Superman doesn't get shown up much either... but he sure did in TDKR.

Green Arrow - Billy Connolly
Green Arrow, especially in TDKR, is a little bit "out there". So is Billy Connolly, and mostly, this choice is purely inspired by watching Billy in the Boondock Saints. It's almost self-explanatory. Watch and compare... you'll see what I mean.

"The Mutant Leader" - Brock Lesnar
This role doesn't require a lot of talking or a lot of actual acting talent. It does, however, call for someone huge and brutal. Former WWF champion Brock Lesnar is both, and the guy just plain looks scary. Add some makeup and he's perfect, and being a pro wrestler is basically being a stuntman, so fight scenes would be a snap.

Ellen Yindel - Laura Linney
I thought she played a great hard-*** attorney in "The Exorcism of Emily Rose", I have no doubt that she'd play a great hard-*** commissioner in TDKR. She's easy on the eyes, to boot... always does a great job bringing her characters to life.

Selina Kyle/Catwoman - Gena Rowlands
Rowlands, like Selina Kyle, was a total bombshell in her youth. She's put on some weight and age has set in, just like Kyle in TDKR. As the madam of an escort service, for some reason I always pictured and heard Kyle sounding like an old Southern Belle... and Rowlands had that down in "The Skeleton Key". Maybe a little younger than she is now, but she'd fit the role quite well.

Lana Lang - Kathy Bates
Dead ringer! Bates is heavyset and is well-known for playing women who aren't afraid to speak their minds just like Lang in the story. This is probably as close as you'll get to a perfect casting choice, if you ask me. There's just no question, really.
 

Zombipanda

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

You're right about Jodi Foster as Robin. I'm an idiot. Cybill Shepherd played Deniro's love interest.

I really am dumb.
 

Willverine

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

Well, never mind. Seems like nobody cared.

Zombipanda, sorry for wasting your time. And mine. Cheers for trying.
 

Victor Von Doom

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

Damn....sorry I missed this thread. I know I said I would play, but I actually missed this one.

I'd really like to comment on this but I never really cared for Batman until recently....so I never read the story to properly cast anyone. Maybe on another one. :(
 

Zombipanda

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

Willverine said:
Well, never mind. Seems like nobody cared.

Zombipanda, sorry for wasting your time. And mine. Cheers for trying.

No problem. ;) It seems every game thread I post in dies. I'm cursed.
 

SSJmole

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

Not read the comic but will give it a try

Bruce Wayne/Batman (of course) - Jason Behr

Robin - Michelle Trachtenberg

The Joker -Robin Williams (when he was young enough to pull it off)

Alfred Pennyworth - Anthony Head (i think he's perfect for role)

Jim Gordon - Dick Van Dyke (i know was voice in a game but damn he looks like him)

Harvey Dent/Two Face -Harrison Ford

Green Arrow - Jason David Frank

Superman -David Boreanaz

Dr. Wolper - Ewan McGregor

Lana Lang - Lucy Liu

Ellen Yindel -Calista Flockhart

Selina Kyle/Catwoman - Sarah Michelle Gellar
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

I'll do an updated one of these later...

But the only person for the role of DKR Batman is Clint Eastwood.

Reread it. It's not even questionable.
 

Planet-man

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

Bruce Wayne/Batman - Mickey Rourke. Just look at him in Sin City. He'd be terrific in this part. My perfect Batman actor is without question Gregory Peck circa 1962, but this movie would be an exception because of the style.

Robin - Natalie Portman(when she was 16)

The Joker - Tobin Bell. For those of you who don't know him, he plays Jigsaw in the Saw movies. If you've seen his performance in Saw II, you probably get where I'm coming from.

Alfred Pennyworth - Efrem Zimbalist Jr.

Jim Gordon - Paul Newman

Harvey Dent/Two Face - Liev Schreiber

Green Arrow - Clint Eastwood

Superman -

Dr. Wolper - Christopher Walken

Lana Lang -

Ellen Yindel - Julianne Moore

Selina Kyle/Catwoman -


I'll edit and fill in the rest when I think of them.
 

Planet-man

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

Not read the comic but will give it a try

:shock:

Read the comic. Now.

But a few pointers to get you started first:


Bruce Wayne/Batman (of course) - Jason Behr

Batman is a bear-sized 55-year-old in DKR.

The Joker -Robin Williams (when he was young enough to pull it off)

In DKR, The Joker is much older than Willaims is right now.

Green Arrow - Jason David Frank

The Green Arrow we're discussing here is a grizzeld merc in his 60's with one arm.

Dr. Wolper - Ewan McGregor

Dr. Wolper's a tall, skinny middle-aged balding jewish guy with frizzy black hair and a Hitler mustache.

Lana Lang - Lucy Liu

Lana's an overweight middle-aged redhead.

Selina Kyle/Catwoman - Sarah Michelle Gellar

Selina's an overweight middle-aged drug-addicted pimp who runs an escort service.

:wink:
 

SSJmole

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

:shock:

Read the comic. Now.

But a few pointers to get you started first:




Batman is a bear-sized 55-year-old in DKR.



In DKR, The Joker is much older than Willaims is right now.



The Green Arrow we're discussing here is a grizzeld merc in his 60's with one arm.



Dr. Wolper's a tall, skinny middle-aged balding jewish guy with frizzy black hair and a Hitler mustache.



Lana's an overweight middle-aged redhead.



Selina's an overweight middle-aged drug-addicted pimp who runs an escort service.

:wink:



ok my choices were bad.


I assumed that it was early batman years like movie of it.


my bad but no I wont read it. i'm not a big fan of batman or dc comics. There are some things i like of dc e.g teen titans cartoon , smallville but as a rule i avoid dc. if they did an Ultimate DC like they are with marvel then maybe i would.
 

Ultimate MJ

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

ok my choices were bad.


I assumed that it was early batman years like movie of it.


my bad but no I wont read it. i'm not a big fan of batman or dc comics. There are some things i like of dc e.g teen titans cartoon , smallville but as a rule i avoid dc. if they did an Ultimate DC like they are with marvel then maybe i would.

You need to read some Frank Miller son.

The movie was based on Millers Batman Year one, not DKR. Some things (like the tankmobile) were taken from DKR, but no plot elements (that I can remember anyways).



And I'd have to agree the either Mickey Rourke or Clint Eastwood would work for Bats.
 

SSJmole

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

You need to read some Frank Miller son.

The movie was based on Millers Batman Year one, not DKR. Some things (like the tankmobile) were taken from DKR, but no plot elements (that I can remember anyways).



And I'd have to agree the either Mickey Rourke or Clint Eastwood would work for Bats.

I didn't like batman begins (that tankmobile was one of the many many many reasons) and when I said movie I ment the squeal thats thats coming out. I looked at who IMDB had listed and assumed that the book's characters = same age ect.... as film.


and i've read some frank millar stuff and its pretty cool just read his batman one as i dont really like batman.
 
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ProjectX2

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

I'm like the only person who doesn't like The Dark Knight Returns, but I agree that Mickey Rourke as Marv as Batman would rock.
 

Ultimate MJ

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

first post said:
We're talking, of course, about the original Frank Miller story from 1986, not the sequel for Batman Begins.

Until this thread, I had no idea that the sequel was going to be called DKR. Hmm.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

All of mine are for a present day casting...

Bruce Wayne/Batman - Clint Eastwood. Period.

Robin - An Unknown. I dont want some trendy girl-of-the-moment.

The Joker - I agree 100% with David Bowie. Give him Green hair and lipstick and his vacant, piercing stare and he is perfect for this role.

Alfred Pennyworth - Michael Gough, if he's not dead yet... Aka, the Alfred from the first four Batman Movies...

Jim Gordon - For the boisterous shouting old Gordon, for some reason I imagine a Moustached Martin Sheen in his angry president voice. This is the casting I'm least sure of.

Harvey Dent/Two Face - Bruce Willis. He can be both very intense and sound utterly broken. The blank emotion of his voice is also perfect for when he threatens to blow up Gotham's Twin Towers... He also looks good Bald.

Green Arrow - Honestly... I think GA would be cut out of the movie version of Dark Knight Returns. But in a perfect world I would cast Robert Redford... Imagine him with white hair and a grizzled goatee... And then remember how DKR's GA is a crazy left-wing radical, and that he and Redford would get along quite well.

Superman - Tom Selleck. He has that Dashing Man who hasn't aged in the past decade look to him... He also has that Patronizing "look, i'm a great guy, and you should love me, but if you dont, I can break your face in" look

Dr. Wolper - David Cross. His ability to earnestly speak about things that there is no possibility a sane person could believe makes him hilarious, give him a Ph.D, put him on national television and imagine him talking seriously about how The Joker was only evil because Batman traumatized him. Bradley Whitford also might be a good choice for the role.

Lana Lang - Another role I don't think would make the final cut... I'd say Peri Gilpin, Roz from Frasier, just to give her running TV commentary a fantastic and condescending "i'm always right" voice.

Ellen Yindel - This is a hard one. Jodie Foster as a grown up Clarice Starling. She's not too old to pull the role off. And I could definitely see her hating vigilantes like batman for highly romanticized visions of justice much in the same way the young Gordon felt.

Selina Kyle/Catwoman - Meryl Streyp. Just that slightly plump, I used to be the most beautiful woman in the room look to her... Also she has a catty face (pun intended), and could look classy even if she's running an escort service. I also think she's an expert at having breakdowns like she does after the Joker uses her girl to kill the mayor.
 

Planet-man

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

All of mine are for a present day casting...

Bruce Wayne/Batman - Clint Eastwood. Period.

I see where you're coming from here but I still don't think he's big enough.

Alfred Pennyworth - Michael Gough, if he's not dead yet... Aka, the Alfred from the first four Batman Movies...

I'd agree with you here fully...but you're breaking the rules.:wink:

Jim Gordon - For the boisterous shouting old Gordon, for some reason I imagine a Moustached Martin Sheen in his angry president voice. This is the casting I'm least sure of.

I could DEFINITELY see Sheen in that part and he's probably my second choice behind Paul Newman.

Green Arrow - Honestly... I think GA would be cut out of the movie version of Dark Knight Returns. But in a perfect world I would cast Robert Redford... Imagine him with white hair and a grizzled goatee... And then remember how DKR's GA is a crazy left-wing radical, and that he and Redford would get along quite well.

I still think Eastwood or even Nick Nolte would be perfect for this part.

Superman - Tom Selleck. He has that Dashing Man who hasn't aged in the past decade look to him... He also has that Patronizing "look, i'm a great guy, and you should love me, but if you dont, I can break your face in" look

I was VERY close to putting him for my choice as Superman and I spent a few minutes considering how he'd fit in each of Superman's scenes. I think he'll ultimately be my choice as well.

Dr. Wolper - David Cross. His ability to earnestly speak about things that there is no possibility a sane person could believe makes him hilarious, give him a Ph.D, put him on national television and imagine him talking seriously about how The Joker was only evil because Batman traumatized him.

:lol: He would work so well I have to edit my original post. Paging Dr. Russ Lieber!

Lana Lang - Another role I don't think would make the final cut... I'd say Peri Gilpin, Roz from Frasier, just to give her running TV commentary a fantastic and condescending "i'm always right" voice.

I dunno, I think she's too hot for the part.

Ellen Yindel - This is a hard one. Jodie Foster as a grown up Clarice Starling. She's not too old to pull the role off. And I could definitely see her hating vigilantes like batman for highly romanticized visions of justice much in the same way the young Gordon felt.

Notice how we both picked Clarices. I'd be totally fine with either one.

Selina Kyle/Catwoman - Meryl Streyp. Just that slightly plump, I used to be the most beautiful woman in the room look to her... Also she has a catty face (pun intended), and could look classy even if she's running an escort service. I also think she's an expert at having breakdowns like she does after the Joker uses her girl to kill the mayor.

Great choice. Probably the best woman for the part.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Re: Dreamcasting - Round One

I don't think Batman needs to be massive to get across the same affect.

Batman is the Cowboy of the Wild West of Gotham.

And hell, look in the comic post-moustache when he's maskless, he Looks like Clint Eastwood.
 

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