Dreamcasting # 16 - Further Entries in the Batman Begins Franchise


He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Oct 24, 2004
New York, NY
THE RULES------------------------

1) The winner of the last round becomes the moderator of the round, and thus gets to choose the property or story in question to be adapted. Winner may also declare whether this property is an animated film, or a live-action one. He must also name the core characters to be cast, which should be at least 4, but no more than 9.

2) You may not use actors who have played the role before in the same medium before. Voice talents may not reprise their role, nor can film ones.

3) After two weeks, the round is declared closed. People will vote via PM and send it to the moderator, who will count the votes and declare winner. Like the Ultimatization Game, you CANNOT vote for yourself.

4) The winner declared gets to choose the property in the next round.

This Round:

Further Entries in the Batman Begins Franchise


1) You may NOT recast an announced casting for The Dark Knight, or recast a character who appeared in Batman Begins.

2) KEEP IN MIND that these are sequels set within the themes and style of the Batman Begins movie, and keeping the tone set by the previous films.

3) You may replace a mandatory casting with an Optional, but should at cast Seven Characters for your round to be counted.


Talia Al Ghul
- Daughter of Ra's Al Ghul, who falls in love with the Dark Knight Detective.

Selina Kyle, Catwoman - A Cat Burgular who robbed her way into the fine life, is often seen on the arm of one billionaire or another. Sometimes even Bruce Wayne's.

Edward Nygma, The Riddler - A criminal obsessed with puzzles and riddles.

Oswald Cobblepot, The Penguin - A weapons dealer with an odd fixation with birds.

Dr. Leslie Thompkins - If Alfred acted as a father figure for all those years while Bruce grew up in Gotham, it was Leslie Thompkins who was the closest thing he had to a mother.

Harvey Bullock - One of Gordon's most loyal men, even if not the most well liked. On the entire police force, He trusts and likes Batman the least.

Renee Montoya - Originally, Harvey Bullock's partner. Secretly a Lesbian. One day she might run around without a face, but maybe not in these movies.


Mr. Freeze


The Black Mask

Dr. Harleen Quinzel

Dr. Jeremiah Arkham

Crispus Allen

Barbara Gordan, Oracle
(who says Barb's gotta be Batgirl?)

Robin (Choose Whichever One You Want, just remember that we're trying to keep the same tone as the original)

I'm just reserving my spot right now with the choices I already had:

Talia Al Ghul - Rachel Weisz. I'm pretty sure we talked about her in the thread, and she has the definite look. I think it would be interesting to see her switch between hero and villain and the fine line that divides them. Love interest for Bruce and enemy for Batman.

Selina Kyle - Rosario Dawson. I think Dawson's going to be a big player in the movie business later on. In the new Batman mythos, Kyle would be a prostitute who eventually turns to stealing to get money. This is how she runs into Batman... and maybe even seduces him. I'm thinking of Dawson's role as the tough *** hooker in Sin City combined with her innocence in Death Proof.

Edward Nygma - I really want to cast Kevin Spacey as The Riddler, but there are two problems. One is that he may make the role even more sinister/creepier than Ledger's Joker, and we can't have that. The other is that Spacey is getting damn old. I see The Riddler being obsessed with trying to find the identity of Batman, and Spacey's role in American Beauty reflects this. I think he'd be perfect if he was a bit younger. Otherwise, I think Paul Bettany looks quite a bit like The Riddler, but I'm not too sure how he'd do with the overactive villain.

Oswald Cobblepot - Phillip Seymour Hoffman. I remember reading that he was rumoured for the role and after seeing him play a great villain in Mission Impossible III, I thought he was perfect. Penguin would have to be a British mob boss or weapons importer, not some lame bird fetishist though.

Leslie Thompkins - Helen Mirren. There's just something motherly and warm to her.

Harvey Bullock - Wade Williams. No, not Wade Wilson. This is the guy that plays Brad Bellick on Prison Break. He's a former corrupt guard turned bounty hunter. And he's great at it. Put him in a trench coat and hat and you've got Bullock.

Renee Montoya - Michelle Rodriguez. I think she can act, it's just she either has too little or too much. Giving her a role as a background cop would suit her just fine. When we see Ana Lucia's flashbacks in Lost with her as a cop, I knew she was Renee Montoya.

You want pictures? You can't have them.
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Yeah, I've been definitely thinking Michelle Rodriguez for Renee since I first saw her in Lost (and in some of the episodes, you can tell that she's a good actress, I just feel that the writers didn't know what to do with them.

I have other ones, but I'm going to save my non-votable cast for later.

I have a perfect Harvey Bullock, and a perfect Leslie Thompkins, and a damn spiffy Crispus Allen in my head too... But I want to see if anyone's on the same wavelengths as me.
I had a perfect Harvey Bullock but I've forgotten... :(

I'll edit the others in as I find/remember them...
The only one I can't think of is Catwoman. I'm stumped.
Okay, for starters:


Edward Nygma/The Riddler - Simon Woods
If you've watched Rome(and you should) you'll recognize him as Gaius Octavian all grown up. His snake-like features and demeanor are quite striking and you can tell he's strategizing every aspect of his surroudings with each passing second just by looking at his eyes.
What I like most about him is his age. He's in his early twenties and could easily pass for late teens, which is exactly how I want to see the Riddler done. I want him to be the ultimate example of that resentful, way-too-smart-for-this teen who's still stuck putting up with his teachers' mistakes in a school system lightyears behind him. After finally having his progress wrecked by the stupidity of others one time too many, he snaps and decides to cut loose, with the mindset that only the clever deserve to prosper, and begins a series of ingenius riddle-based crimes to see if there's anyone to match his wit. Also, he's one of those typical teens who obsesses over A Clockwork Orange, and it would show a bit in his style, topped with the trademark bowler hat.

Just wanted to lock that in. I'll do more tommorow.
Why are there more 'optionals' than the key roles? And to that end, what's the point anymore of the 7-9 rule if you can easily double that number with optionals?

Excellent choice though, DSF. :D
What I really love about this round is that DSF has already taken a major chunk of burden outta casting the leading role.

I know I spend a horrendous amount of time casting the lead and building the support cast around him/her. It can be quite discouraging when you can think of perfect roles for supporting characters but then you can't use them because they won't match with the lead.

So we already know Bale is Batman for this project so now you can build your cast around that.

I don't know if this brilliance is on purpose or just a mere coincidence.....but I loves it so.

Expect my cast soon.
This is one I'll definitely be participating in. Not forcing us to recast the leads is brilliant.
Talia Al Ghul – Ziyi Zhang – She IMO looks the part of Talia al Ghul , She's beautiful and can pull the part off , Don't think the character in comics is Asian but then again Ra's al Ghul did not look like Liam Neeson.

I needed someone who could look and sound like she came from that lifestyle of her father BUT also like someone you could walk past on the street and your only thought was "She's hot" or something not "She's a villain"

Selina Kyle, Catwoman – Eliza Dushku – When I think catwoman this is the first actress that comes to mind. Also I think to help make the film more realistic like begins catwoman needs to look like she can kick *** before she becomes catwoman (like batman )

Edward Nygma, The Riddler – Robin Williams
, now hear me out on this one , I think best way to the riddler IMO is something like an old Game show host , Have Robin Williams doing his comedy a little for game show

Then something happens to make him snap and go crazy , when that happens think One Hour Photo type of surreal craziness but still have some wacky comedy when prresenting puzzles like a game show host. But that's my idea and why I think Williams is perfect for how I see a begins riddler. The fact he's old now makes him have more of a "Bruce Forsyth" (or "Bob Barker" those who have never heard of bruce)

Oswald Cobblepot, The Penguin – James Gandolfini – Edited this as I decided the Penguin needs to look like and be convincing as a Mob boss more than the rich snob thing I had first had , So in order to have a serious penguin and a dark one that could fit in with begins I've gone with "Tony Soprano"

Dr. Leslie Thompkins – Jane Fonda – Se seems like a mother type figure now and is a well known name enough so to draw some attention from non-comic fans which is important and works like having Marlon Brando as Superman's dad let people know the film was serious.

Harvey Bullock – Kerr Smith – may not be every ones first choice but since Gordon is younger I decided he needs to be a character who can be a bit slimy , I honestly like this choice as IMO it's an unexpected casting that would work.

Renee Montoya – Christina Ricci – I wanted an actress that can be dark and weird as I think that is needed later on but also can seem harmless yet tough , She also needed to be someone that Kerr Smith could bounce of kind of like mulder and scully thing which I wanted.

That may not be in comic but I felt it helped round them more and ground them both in the Begins Universe.

Mr. Freeze – Vin Diesel , I hate that keep casting this guy as I don't like him , But he is exactly how I would do freeze , Part comic , Part animated series , Part batman and robin. By that I mean I wanted a strong tough guy who could pull off been freeze but with less cheesy dialogue.

Clayface – human "Ethan Bennett" form : – Samuel L. Jackson this is because I wanted him as the bad *** cop like he was a cop in the batman , However I needed it to be someone who very famous so when he becomes "Clayface" people who don't know who he is are shocked and actually think an ything could happen.

Clayface – cgi – voiced by Michael Clarke Duncan – I picked this option just as from Samuel L. Jackson to him makes it seem like Clayface had become more of a monster when that deep voice hits.

more to come *mumble*stupid limit on pics in posts*mumble*
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The Black Mask – Ian McKellen – I figure you don't see his face for people to think "magneto" but his voice and build is like that of someone from a high Society like very Shakespearian if that helps explain this logic so I decided to go for it he's perfect for what this character needs to be

Dr. Harleen Quinzel – Juliet Landau – This is because I would think they would do a different harley to comics and cartoon where she is bubbly , Instead I see harley herself as more like Drusilla's crazy. Shhe she's crazy , evil but is almost like a child at times too.

As for Harleen Quinzel I think Juliet Landau would do a good job of playing the doctor too.

Dr. Jeremiah Arkham – Ron Glass – I'm not familiar with the character but what I read I see the leader been similar to his Shepherd Book on firefly in terms of seriousness , I also wanted him to be someone people can feel sorry when we touch upon his past.

Young Jeremiah Arkham – Tyler James Williams – this is mainly because he is one of the few child-teen actors I don't think sucks and I think he could play a young Ron Glass , see it's important to have him as someone who is a younger version of who I picked as Dr Jeremiah Arkham

Crispus Allen – Bruce Willis – the way I see it what kind of crazy son of a ***** would transfer to gothem ? He needs to be a John McClane type so we can believe "yeah he is going to kick ass"

Barbara Gordan, Oracle – Holly Valance – This is because she needs to be a girl-next-door type around "daddy" IMO before she becomes bat-girl. And as we saw in D.O.A she can kick *** like batgirl.

Robin – Vincent Kartheiser – I wanted a young but not kid or teen actor who could play a stressed out younger version of bale's batman which let's face it that's what robin is. Also he needs to be strong enough that when he goes off on his own in the future it is believable.
Edited my penguin , It was the choice I really didn't like and I think the new one is perfect

Talia Al Ghul - Liv Tyler

Tyler has the lure of sexiness while still being deadly.


Selina Kyle, Catwoman - Hilary Swank

If you watch The Black Dahlia, Swank can pull off the sexy ***** that Catwoman is. Playful yet dangerous.


Edward Nygma, The Riddler - Ralph Fiennes

Fiennes is a perfect convining, I'm better than you villain. Which is what the Riddler is. See him in Harry Potter.


Oswald Cobblepot, The Penguin - Jonathan Pryce

He can play the aristocat well. Make him look fat and short. You have it.


Dr. Leslie Thompkins - Judi Dench

She is perfect. She would look the perfect aside Caine's Alfred.


Harvey Bullock - Jeremy Ratchford

He plays a detective on the tv show "Cold Case." Grow a beard and put on the hat. Boom. You have Bullock.


Renee Montoya - Alexa Davalos

She is of greek decent, but she would still be perfect in the role. She looked latina in Chronicles Of Riddick and would play the bitter Montoya.


Mr. Freeze - Malcolm McDowell

He has the voice that just freezes you. With those eyes and had a mechanical sound to his voice.


Poison Ivy - Rose McGowan

Sulky, Sexy, Deadly. McGowan is Poison Ivy.


Mad Hatter - Robert Knepper

Knepper plays an excellent villain. Make him an outcast and that has angry issues and social issues.

Clayface - Matthew McConaughey

The overpaid cocky actor. Involved in an accident. Maybe make him more clay-like as the movie progresses. Just have him being a dick for no reason because he is.


Dr. Harleen Quinzel - Scarlett Johansson

Johansson is one of the best actresses ever. She can pull both the intelligence of Quinzel and I think the wacky side of Quinn.


Dr. Jeremiah Arkham - Martin Sheen

The man that thinks he can solve all the problems of the inmates. Can't you see Sheen standing face to face with Batman telling him to back down, while protecting the Joker.


Crispus Allen - Jamie Foxx

This one was hard and I'm still not happy with it. But I do think Foxx can do it.


Barbara Gordan, Oracle - Alyson Hannigan

Alyson can play the sweet, genius level Oracle. Imagine her in front of a computer with glasses. Sexy.


Robin - Liam Aiken

This could be Dick or Tim, but I prefer Tim.


The Black Mask - John Malkovich

Malkovich would go hand and hand with an adaption of the Red Hood saga. The criminal underboss with a sadistic temper.


Red Hood (Jason Todd) - Ian Somerhalder

He would be Jason Todd, but having him be Robin would not work for the movie. I think more of him as the other vigilante. Killing criminals while systematly working though the Black Mask's operation.


Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) - Christina Ricci

A girl that looks sweet but can kick your ***. I almost went with Devon Aoki, but thought Ricci was better. She doesn't have to be Batgirl. Just the daughter of two killers that are both after her. Batman takes her in and trys to protect her from her parents (See Below)


David Cain - Peter Stormare

The ultimate mercenary. Father to Cassandra. Stormare would play this with finesse and brutalness.

Lady Shiva - Bai Ling

The deadliest woman in the world. She looks deadly. Her and Cain would be completly against each other for Cassandra. She could also be used as an assassin for the League of Shadows.

Wooo. That took forever.
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Batman Dreamcasting: Most of these characters won't ever appear in a Batman film, but I'm glad DSF picked this. I'm trying to see how serious I can take all of these characters.

Talia Al Ghul- Jennifer Connelly
This Talia is the daughter of Liam Neeson's Ra's Al Ghul so she needs to have less of a middle eastern look to her. She's going to be a real pain to Batman since she knows who he is and she loves him. I think Jennifer Connelly (A Beautiful Mind) would be perfect to be Ra's succesor.

Catwoman- Kate Beckinsale
The thing about Selina Kyle is is that she's a woman who can even make Bruce Wayne's heart jump a little bit. She's stunning and she has a personality that isn't afraid of Bruce Wayne's family name. It'll give Batman a heart wrenching decision to make when he finds out that she happens to be Gotham's cat burgaler. Beckinsale can be a great Catwoman if she plays up her unattainability. Plus she's used to those skin-tight leather ensembles.

The Riddler- Hugh Laurie
Edward Nygma is interesting in the fact that he cannot tell a lie. This belief is so strong that he gives away the secrets of his crimes to the GCPD and Batman. While the Joker has a cruel and sadistic sense of humor, Riddler will toy with Batman and make him think before he goes in for the kill. Tell me Hugh Laurie can't do that. Go ahead, tell me.

The Penguin- Phillip Seymour Hoffman
I agree wholeheartedly with Proj, this one's perfect.

Dr. Leslie Tompkins- Meryl Streep
When little Bruce Wayne needs a shoulder to cry on after the death of his parents, it's not Alfred that conforts him immediately, it's Leslie. She's Bruce's interem mother before he goes off on his journey and looks after him as the Batman. Academy Award winning actress Meryl Streep can play the kind motherly figure Bruce needs, but won't take any of his excuses either. And for those taht look at Devil Wears Prada and thinks she wouldn't be kind enough, just watch some of her other films.

Harvey Bullock- James Gandolfini
While Mole had the right idea for Gandolfini as a mob boss, Penguin's too upper class for that. I'm tired of seeing Gandolfini as a gangster, I'd like to see him as a guy who fights for good. Plus you know he's going to go at it with Batman on the GCPD rooftop.

Renee Montoya- Dania Ramírez
Renee's one tough *****. She's a good cop worrying about her partner, her own life and trying not to fail someone like she did Crispus Allen. Ramirez is a newcomer, but she's proven to be strong (X3), yet vulnerable (Heroes) at the same time.

And that's the main cast, now on to the optionals.

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