Grand Theft America speculation (Ultimates 2 spoilers)

Ricky

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Dr.Strangefate said:
SHIELD finds out Pym let Banner out free

Thanks for spoiling issue 3 for me. I've been really excited on finding out what will happen to Banner. Well, not anymore...

THAT's exactely the reason I don't like paticipating in the discussions here on the site any more. You can't open any topic without an idiot posting the (importent) content of the latest issue...

(sorry, it was you that got all my wrath, you're no worse then many others. And in case you wonder, living in germany, I get my issues 1, sometimes 2 months later then you guys)

Ricky
 

Goodwill

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Hey, sorry if I'm ever the spoiler, but there are warnings and most of what we talk about are spoilers and rumors, which would eventually lead to fact, anyway...
 

E

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This is a spec thread, and as such it should be understood that it will contain spoilers. Nobody did anything wrong here.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Sorry for the spoiler thingy... but its hard to speculate without using the new info....

But here is how I see what is happening... and what could happen... and this is entirely speculation and spoiling whats happened, so dont read if you dont want to.

So...

This is the story of Hank Pym. This whole comic, essentially.

First he takes over the Super-soldier program and is developing his Giant-Man, Ant-Man, and Ultron projects, then his associate combines the actual Super soldier serum from Cap's blood with the Hulk Serum because (over the fact that he has felt demasculated so many times in the past few months, including being demoted from the head of the SS Program), and destroys New York and in the process nearly kills Pym. Pym, out of anger beats his wife and she leaves him, he then gets his arse handed to him by Captain America, who is now dating his wife.

Things don't start getting better for Hank Pym, he gets shoved aside to running the supervision of illegal Genetic Mutations. He is then nearly killed when ALL of these Genetic Mutations escape. He survives though, and is working with the person who thoroughly humiliated him and is clearly a thousand times smarter than he is (Banner) to develop Ultron, his pet AI project. Pym really doesnt like Banner, It wouldnt make sense for him to like Baner, Pym holds grudges and is a disgruntled scientist with an inferiority complex. Lets say to get back at these constant sessions of torment, he hands over top secret files identifying Banner to the media. Banner is going to be executed, and making sure its done right is his last job before getting the axe (figuratively). He fails at this. Banner's DNA is what Banner's expertise is, and not Pym. When Pym heard the message he looked angry and confused, not happy. He's failed again. (I doubt Banner shows up in this run again, this is perfect miniseries material for next year).

Now, The Thor battle is a sidenote, an interesting sidenote, but still just that. Pym is going to keep working on Ultron during all of this, and then will form the Defenders for unknown reasons, possibly just to be noticed by the public, and his ex-wife, again. The Ultimates will rip apart these semi-heroes, and Pym will once again be humiliated and angry at the Ultimates. Then he needs to finish designing the Brain for his brilliant project, the one he wants to use to show the entire world that he is better than Banner, or Fury, or anyone who's made a fool out of him. Then he does something really, monumentally stupid. Pym doesnt have the resources he had as leader of the Super Soldier Project, and probably only has his own personal brain to work with. So, he figures its his project, so he programs in his own personality. You know, the bi-polar cynical personality imbedded with anti-US sentiments. So the AI does what it thinks is best, it takes over America to "Fix" it, to be the true American Hero.

Pym realizes what he has done, and in the process of shutting down the AI, he sacrifices himself. Now responsible for thousands of deaths between the Hulk, and Ultron, he dies to redeem himself.

-I- Think it works, at least.
 

jtg3885

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I'd be leery of any sort of invasion plot by terrestrial enemies. If China can get offended over a... what was it, a Nike commercial? Reebok? Some sneaker company at any rate... And some organization for Asian people freaked out over the 'Wong Brothers' shirts from Abercrombie and Fitch and raised a huge fuss about it. Do you really think Marvel would write about a bunch of Chinese superfreaks trying to take over America, or anything along those lines? Contrary to popular belief, there is such a thing as bad publicity, and getting your comic spread all over the 6 'o clock news because you've offended an entire ethnic group is definitely bad publicity.
 

SeAcoW

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I agree with you on that one ... it would be really dangerous to take such a subject in a comic book. Not long time ago there was alot about the game "ghost recon 2 " having a plot about North Korea. I don't think marvel would take such a chance !
 

Goodwill

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SeAcoW said:
I agree with you on that one ... it would be really dangerous to take such a subject in a comic book. Not long time ago there was alot about the game "ghost recon 2 " having a plot about North Korea. I don't think marvel would take such a chance !

Mercenaries is also about a rogue North Korea, so it may not be that much of a stretch. I wouldn't put it past Millar, either, he's one crazy Scot.
 

E

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Dr.Strangefate said:
When Pym heard the message he looked angry and confused, not happy. He's failed again.

Yeah, that's why I was partly confused when I read it. Good point.
 

Goodwill

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I think Pym is one of the more interesting, real characters on the cast of characters where they have problems to have problems... He reminds me of Egon from the Ghost Busters... He's really smart, makes mistakes, and has a good heart but can't show it.
 

Caduceus

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Goodwill said:
I think Pym is one of the more interesting, real characters on the cast of characters where they have problems to have problems... He reminds me of Egon from the Ghost Busters... He's really smart, makes mistakes, and has a good heart but can't show it.

Which is why he beat his wife??

He's one of the more developed characters and, while he seems to be the focus of a few things, I personally don't like him. He bores me.
 

Goodwill

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Well, I don't know about beating his wife... That's probably something Millar stuck in there for the sake of having it in there, but I do agree with you that he's a more developed character than most and, instead of disliking him, I find him interesting.
 

Caduceus

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Goodwill said:
Well, I don't know about beating his wife... That's probably something Millar stuck in there for the sake of having it in there, but I do agree with you that he's a more developed character than most and, instead of disliking him, I find him interesting.

I'd say the wife-beating was more of a plot device to show the tension between the Ultimates and Captain America's readjustment difficulties to the modern era.
 

SeAcoW

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BUT hank beating Jan is nothing new no, but being close to killing her is really new. Also i was kinda surprised that her wasp sting didn't have a larger effect on Hank.
 

moonmaster

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Here's what I think the Ultron story is gonna be about. Instead of Ultron being a classic "evil robot" Ultron could be an human looking android (human looking so he could seem more charismatic to the American people) with A.I. Pym builds Ultron, but has a breakdown when he realizes how human his creation is and the fact that Ultron considers Hank his "father" Pym shuns his "son" and Ultrons flees. He is shunned by other people in the world when they learn what he is and he feels like an outcast. He blames Pym for his pain and tries to escape society, and live by himself. But S.H.I.E.L.D considers him a threat and they come for him, and he's forced to fight back. In the ensuing battle Ultron murders Pym, but finds himself unsatisfied. He learns that he has the same hate and spitefulness that he resented in humans. Before the Ultimates can get him, he kills himself.

In case you were wondering, this story IS somewhat based on the book Frankenstein and no, I don't think this really happening is even remotely possible, I just thought it was an interesting idea.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Moony, I love the idea...

I still dont think Hank would get close, or something Hank created would be able to get close to anything.... Hank is a very detached person.

If there were to be an Ultron mini, that'd work great, though. Hell, if Pym survives this round, we could get an Ultron mini where that does happen. I love the idea of Ultron thinking he's a good guy though, despite being a dominating ruthless machine.
 

Nurhachi

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Hey, i got a theory. What if Ultron is just a persona for Hank? I mean, one day, Hank snaps (Hes known for breakdowns and when he was yellowjacket he thought he was someone else who killed pym).

Hank snaps from losing his job, his wife, etc. and thinks hes someone else called Ultron. He can have an adamantium suit.

I doubt it will happen, but i thought it was an idea worth sharing
 

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