If Ultimate Hope existed...

longshotjimlee

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If there were a cure in the Ultimate Universe, which charachters would take it, which characters should take it, and which characters could still be important to the Ultimate Universe even though their powers were removed?
 

TheManWithoutFear

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No one would still be important if they had no powers... save Fury and Reed Richards and anyone else whose already in a high government position... If someone says that someone like any of the X-Men (including Xavier) would still be important than I'm going to stop you now and tell you not to bother posting an argument with me cos they're just kids without them and you'd be wrong* this list doesn't include people without natural powers like Iron Man and Black Widow and other non-mutants who have nothing to do with the super soldier serum.





*Beast might be important still but I think I heard somewhere that his intelligence was a result of his mutation... I could be wrong but in that case Beast would still be important
 

Caduceus

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I'm pretty sure his intelligence is natural.

I'd be surprised if any of the X-men (except maybe Rogue even though she's gone) took the cure. They are very well adjusted to their powers and even the physical mutation characters such as Nightcrawler don't hate themselves or have the angst-ridden moments which made the Cure an issue in Astonishing.

But, as Beast is dead, i'm not including him in "The X-men". Him taking the cure is a definite possibility. He might still be important but it wouldn't surprise me if, mutant or not, he still remained at the Xavier institute.
 

jtg3885

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I've seen this speculation with almost any fandom. Would Neo be as important if he wasn't The One? Would Buffy be as important if she wasn't the Slayer? Harry Potter important without the wand? The fact of the matter is that when push comes to shove, these characters (and most of Marvel's characters) are important BECAUSE they're abnormal. If you take away that, then duhh, of course they won't be as important. Who'd want to read about Wolverine the County File Clerk?
 

longshotjimlee

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Hold on Jtg, I didn't post this as a new thread, it was part of another one.

But many themes relating to loss of power are being bandied about in the comics at the moment.

What makes Spider-man such a great charachter but others rather poor, it's not his power it's his personality. This will be spiced up in the mear future with The Spectacular Spider-man giving him even more powers. He will still be Spider-man and when there have been times when he has lost them he was still Spider-man.

Iron man has no particular powers, or does he? In Earth X it hints that his intelligence is actually a mutation.

Fury has no power in either Universes but he still is effective and an important character. I would like to see Fury develop a power at some point. Imagine if after all this mutant phobia stuff, (not that he is that afraid of mutants and repsects some of them), if he was actualy a mutant himself?

There is something rather shadowy abut his age and therefore Fury could be an immortal of some sort. He does have a following which suggests some kind of low level telepathic ability.
 

jtg3885

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Yeah, and I can see Peter Parker being sarcastic and irritating to Green Goblin, just before the Goblin squashes him like a gnat. When it comes to most of the superheroes, their personalities are largely influenced by their powers, because the powers allow them to be something they wouldn't otherwise be. Peter would still be the scruffy little nerdy boy without the powers, because he never would have found a method to stand up to bullies, or used the freedom that comes with a secret identity to start slinging little quips and crap at supervillains.
 

longshotjimlee

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Fair point, but some of this was explored recently in Powerless.

Also, if you think about the morals that individual characters lead their life by, it would still make them amazing individuals.

Uncle Ben told Peter that with great power comes great responsibility without knowing he was Spider-man, so what great power did Ben think Peter would have?

Matt would still have made a great lawyer.

Eric would still have had issues around the way people are racist.

etc etc
 

jtg3885

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longshotjimlee said:
Eric would still have had issues around the way people are racist.
Well, I'm hoping the X-movie is related somewhat to the comics when it comes to his origin (or I'm going to look like a really big jackass), but if Eric didn't have his powers, wouldn't he be in a mass grave or the ovens?
 

Goodwill

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It wouldn't be characters or plots that would fix these problems, it would be a writer. I think Vaughan is doing a good job of keeping continuity in check with this title.
 

TheManWithoutFear

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This thread should've been buried when I posted my first statement... I have no idea why anyone would actually try to say that they'd pick up and read the peter parker comic book because of his personality... If there were no powers there would be no spiderman and no interest... personality is just what holds the reader... and then people started bringing up iron man and fury which I already said would be considered important because they didn't have powers and they were higher up in society or intelligence or whathave you...
 

longshotjimlee

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My whole point of the comment JTG is that I don't want characters with powers in 616 brought into the Ultimate Universe without them.

I wanna know how they would deal with them if they were taken away.

Are you reading Astonishing X-men at the moment?

If you are then you may not be telling people this thread should be buried.
 

jtg3885

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Whoah ASSumer, I didn't say it should be buried. And no... seeing as how I read only the Ultimate series, no, Astonishing X-Men isn't really on my list considering it's not Ultimate, and doesn't have to do with the Stepford Cuckoos (my only 616 vice).

And I stand by my previous statement that there are very few character who if you took away their POWERS they would not be worthless in the Ultimate universe.

And before one of you brings up Fury, or JJJ, or Stark again... what part of POWERS don't you understand? Fury and Stark are a completely different animal because of who they are. Tony doesn't have any powers, therefore, he has no place in this discussion. If this was "take away his powers OR other tech that helps him fight crime" (meaning armor-less Tony), that'd be a whole other story, but this thread is not that.
 

longshotjimlee

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JTG, as a board member friend please read Powerless, please read Astonishing X-men.

Also, think of Wolverine.

If he lost his power of healing, etc, he would still make one hell of a character.

He is trained in most forms of arm to arm combat. He is a trained Samurai. He would still have an Admantium covering over his skeleton. He would find it difficult to release those claws but as they were part of him prior to the esperiment he could still use them (although he would not re-heal his hands once they popped).

But most of all, Weapon X are not wholey responsible for wiping his memory. His healing power is constantly wiping the trauma from his mind.
And so, if he was injected with the "Cure", then he should be able to, with Xavier's help, truly find out what happened at Weapon X and then also, more importantly, remember who is and his childhood.

I think out of all the characters Mr Howlett would be the most interesting to see lose or give up or have taken away from him, his powers.

p.s. I don't remember Elektra or Punisher having powers. It is their need to fill an unfillable hole created through loss that has driven them.
 

jtg3885

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Hey man, if you're buying, I'll read it. Until then, my wallet drives my purchases, and I have no desire to read part of a storyline that started back when my mother was going into high school.

And at this point, he may have the training, but how much of it is reliant on his healing powers? And how dead would he get trying to learn how to adapt everything he knew to living without the accelerated healing?
 

longshotjimlee

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As long as there is no chance of us getting into fistycuffs over this, these characters may well have developed their personalities around their powers, but that does not mean they would be boring or unexciting if they lost them. I've given you a very good example of the complexities which make up Logan and how he would benefit from having his powers removed.

You are really going to have to read some of these books in order to have a fully fledged arguement my compadre.

The characters history are in these books and that is what I have based my argument upon.

Okay, lets take another character, (and notice I'm not talking about fury and Tony Stark).

Jessica Jones.

She has powers.

She very rarely chooses to use them.

Her powers may have been a huge part of what has shaped her personality. But she would be just as happy without them.
She feels like she was never cut out to be a super hero.
But her adventures have helped many people and she has an active role with the Super hero fraternity.

Or the Sentry.

The Sentry is the powerful super hero of all.

But he would much prefer to not have that power, and he would still be loved by the other heroes and he would still have an important part to play in the Marvel Universe.
 

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