Is Anyone Else Sick of Death? - SPOILERS...I guess

Nas-T!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
225
Location
The JHB Hellmouth, RSA
Hey everybody

First time poster here, I'm a vet of the Ultimate Universe Message Board and comicboards.com (so if you hang there you'll probably know me)

Now, before I even get into what I wanted to talk about, I just want to warn everyone that I am ALWAYS behind schedule with my comic books. I only go to the store about every two months, so the last time I went was about two months ago. And, even then, I wasn't able to buy every issue of every book that I wanted.
My collection currently sits at UFF#21, The Ultimates 2 #7, UXM #58 and USM#79 (and the annual). I normally hate to be spoiled, but I won't begrudge any of you on-time buyers if you start spoiling me like crazy.

Now, even though I'm totally delayed, I do know that Ultimate Gambit is dead as of the annual, and I've heard that Ultimate Dazzler is dead, too! Bummer!
Is anyone else sick of characters dying in this book? I know I am.
First it was Bendis with his crappy UXM arcs that only served to kill of Beast (for no reason in particular) and now we have these characters dying. And it always seems that it's the cool characters that die.

In my opinion: Beast, Dazzler and Gambit were three of the best characters to come out of the Ultimate Universe because they were a nice mix of the original character from the 616 universe, and a brand new modern character (which is, in my opinion, what the whole ultimate universe should be about).
Beast had the feelings of insecurity and all that, but he was also a lot more interesting than his 616 counterpart and spoke like a human being, rather than a robot (though I always enjoyed regular universe Beast's dialogue, especially: "Oh My Stars and Garters").

Dazzler was hilarious from DAY ONE!! And she made out with Angel (who is the only X-Man who comes off as gay or feminine, even though Colossus is supposed to be the gay one. In fact, I thought that it would turn out that he was gay after that dialogue in #40 with Storm. Imagine when he addressed the protestors at the gate: "My name is Warren Worthington and I'm not an angel. I'm a mutant. And I'm gay." - Hee Hee!:D ).

And then Gambit. Gambit is, IMO, Chuck Austen's ONLY valuable contribution to the world of comic books. If he (Austen) died he should be proud that he told one of the best and most touching stories of modern comics in UXM#13 and #14 rather than all that sexed-up crap he did with the X-Men in UncannyXM and X-Men. Vaughan's work with the character was fun, too.

And lastly, though it may be off-topic now, when will Wolverine go back to acting like he did back in #'s 1 thru 33?! This new honourable guy is boring. I preferred Logan when he was trying to kill Cyclops and bed Jean: now that was fun!!!

Nas-T!
"..."
 

ProjectX2

Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Messages
25,007
Good to see you here Nas.

I don't think Dazzler is dead. Yet.

Go check out the fanfic and art forum that you will love so much.:wink:
 

Caduceus

The Original Muffins Man
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
5,491
Location
Australia
I spy me a familiar face.

Personally, three characters over a 60-odd issue run really doesn't bother me. Considering what they do, its pretty damn small as far as I'm concerned.

While I haven't always been a fan of the executions (if you'll pardon the pun) of the concept, having everyone survive perfectly is not even close to the remote level of realism I like in my comics. So...no, I really don't mind the death. If your going to give these characters these insane abilities, then throw them together in just about every possible combination, there will be times when one of them can quite clearly beat the crap out of the other, and yes, some of them are nutso and wouldn't shy from killing people. Hence the death.

If it impacted negatively on character developement (apart from the obvious fact that it, well, you know, stops after they die) then I'd be a bit less happy, but it really doesn't. Dazzler's only been around for a relatively small number of issues, and wasn't really a big part of the stories, yet we're sad to see her apparently go. To me, thats a sign her character was developed enough. So...awesome.

Aaaaand I'm rambling. But you'll survive.
 

vintsukka

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
674
Location
Tampere, Finland
Nas-T! said:
...that only served to kill of Beast (for no reason in particular)
I can't really see what would be reason enough to kill off someone. As Caduceus said, it's all part of the realism that the UU is trying to achieve much more than the original 616 Universe. People sometimes die for no reason in particular.

More than X-Men, I sometimes wondered about the amount of death in USM. Uncle Ben, Gwen Stacy's dad, Gwen... But I guess that's one of the strong themes of the series, how these incidents shape a young man's mind. And this has nothing to do with the actual topic.
 
Last edited:

roguefan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
702
Location
helping myself to your chocolate biscuits
IMO, Gambit didn't serve a purpose, but I'm happy that Rogue will share his consciousness. It will add a new side to her character. Beast was really pissing me off towards the end. He was always grumpy, broke up with Storm - I didn't care when he died.

And, I doubt Dazzler will die. She'll probably leave the team, yet I doubt she will die.
 

Nas-T!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
225
Location
The JHB Hellmouth, RSA
roguefan said:
IMO, Gambit didn't serve a purpose, but I'm happy that Rogue will share his consciousness. It will add a new side to her character. Beast was really pissing me off towards the end. He was always grumpy, broke up with Storm - I didn't care when he died.

And, I doubt Dazzler will die. She'll probably leave the team, yet I doubt she will die.

Okay, okay guys. I've never understood this begging need some people have for realism in comics...especially realism of this nature. I don't mind the politics and supermodels and whatever else, but I do mind the deaths.
I'll admit that it's pretty ballsy and cool to see them bravely killing off characters never to have them return, but it kinda robs from possibilities.

As for your comments, roguefan, Beast was only annoying at the end because he was written badly. Alot of people seem to give Bendis a pass for his horrible work on UXM. For one thing, Beast's paranoia (about Xavier) was cleared up in the "Return of the King" arc where he and Storm make up again. Now all of a sudden we kick back into the story and he's the same old paranoid Beast from the "World Tour" and "Hellfire and Brimstone" arc. I found that offensive (seeing as he was one of my favorite UXMen). Okay I haven't read the annual yet so I can't really comment on Rogue, but I dislike the idea of another dead mutant.
And these aren't the only dead muties. Marrow, Synch and Maggott were all killed before their stories could be told. It's sad...but you guys have convinced me that the deaths are realistic.

However, it STILL pisses me off that Gwen is dead in USM! I feel it would've been more shocking if MJ bit it (not to mention unexpected).

Nas-T!
"..."
 

Caduceus

The Original Muffins Man
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
5,491
Location
Australia
Nas-T! said:
However, it STILL pisses me off that Gwen is dead in USM! I feel it would've been more shocking if MJ bit it (not to mention unexpected).

Nas-T!
"..."
Yeah, I wish that had happened too. It would have been waaay more interesting. But...eh. Such is life.

roguefan said:
We have no confir,ation that Maggott, Marrow and Synch are dead.
Indeed, this hasn't been officially confirmed so it can be wildly denied when someone does want to tell those stories. Which is stupid, but the way the world works.
 

Nas-T!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
225
Location
The JHB Hellmouth, RSA
Yeah, I often said that, besides for Marrow, we can't really say who those other mutants are. Synch could just be another bald black dude (and why are all the black people at Marvel bald anyway?!), Maggott here was a white dude when Maggott in 616 was black (and sometimes blue...no really!) and that other chick (who I've heard was supposed to be Destiny) was just some chick in a hoody with pink hair. Hell, even Marrow didn't HAVE to be herself there (I know...weird!), she could've been some chick with goat horns and pink skin.

Nas-T!
"..."
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
33,346
Location
MI
We don't know for a fact that Gambit OR Dazzler are dead.
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
16,716
Location
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
UltimateE said:
We don't know for a fact that Gambit OR Dazzler are dead.
I agree and I wish people would stop *****ing about it before we get the whole story. Gambit's body is with SHIELD for reasons unknown and Dazzler is yet to see her last breath. And personally I'm not sick of death. It happens when you toss kids into battles with dangerous and not campy villains.
 

Akilies

Active Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
31
TheManWithoutFear...Gambit's body is with SHIELD for reasons unknown...[/QUOTE said:
As I said in Ultimate Returns, I believe that Gambit should, could, and probably will return at some point down the line. But what's this about SHIELD having his body? Granted, I tend to read the summaries rather than spending the cash on comics, but when did this happen? How do we Know?

And what's going on with Dazzler?

Realizm is good. Very good. But at the expence of beloved characters such as Gambit, Hawkeye, and Ironman? (who has a tumor and isn't expected to live) How realistic do we have to become before we run out of heroes?
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
16,716
Location
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
Akilies said:
As I said in Ultimate Returns, I believe that Gambit should, could, and probably will return at some point down the line. But what's this about SHIELD having his body? Granted, I tend to read the summaries rather than spending the cash on comics, but when did this happen? How do we Know?

And what's going on with Dazzler?

Realizm is good. Very good. But at the expence of beloved characters such as Gambit, Hawkeye, and Ironman? (who has a tumor and isn't expected to live) How realistic do we have to become before we run out of heroes?

I've said it once. The Ultimate Universe should not run on forever and the lineups should always be changing. They said SHIELD took Gambit's body at the end of the issue.
 

Dr.Strangefate

He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
10,075
Location
New York, NY
Nas-T! said:
And lastly, though it may be off-topic now, when will Wolverine go back to acting like he did back in #'s 1 thru 33?! This new honourable guy is boring. I preferred Logan when he was trying to kill Cyclops and bed Jean: now that was fun!!!

I agree with you there...

But that's about it.

I think that death (whether real or implied) is an important plot device and far more necessary in a militaristic X-Men that throw teenagers at Mass-Murderers to "save the world"....

Also, Ultimate X-Men would quickly become over run with crappy, undeveloped characters if they just kept on letting the roster grow and grow and grow

(and then Joe Q can decide he doesnt like ultimate mutants anymore, and get Ultimate wanda drunk and then belch away the world's mutants...*mumble-grumble*)
 

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Joined
Jul 24, 2004
Messages
43,800
Location
The World of Icelandia.
Dr.Strangefate said:
(and then Joe Q can decide he doesnt like ultimate mutants anymore, and get Ultimate wanda drunk and then belch away the world's mutants...*mumble-grumble*)
You act like that's why they had Wanda go crazy before, but thats not talk for here.


Dr.Strangefate said:
Also, Ultimate X-Men would quickly become over run with crappy, undeveloped characters if they just kept on letting the roster grow and grow and grow.
It would. S'why at certain times, you have people leave, and others join, like they'll do next issue of the current arc.
 

Lynx

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2005
Messages
4,489
Location
Orlando, FL
I'm actually fine with characters dying. Yeah, I'm sad to see them go, but I think it adds to the story.

Beast - Yeah, I was pissed. Beast is the X-men I connect with the most. But, what's done is done. Plus, I have hope we'll see Dark Beast sometime in the future. :wink:

Gambit - We still don't know the full story with him. SHIELD has his body, and they didn't just take it for no reason.

Dazzler - She's not dead yet.

Gwen Stacy - I think she should have died differently, but she needed to die. Her death adds a lot to Pete's character.
 

Dr.Strangefate

He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
10,075
Location
New York, NY
icemastertron said:
It would. S'why at certain times, you have people leave, and others join, like they'll do next issue of the current arc.

I know, but when lots of people have emotional ties to eachother who would want to say, and when they've been introducing characters with a regularity that suggests that there are lots of mutants out there who would be interested in being an X-Man...

Unless something happens that turns the public completely agaisnt Xavier again... for reasons other than Mutantism... people are going to keep showing up, or SHIELD will start recruiting more members.

I see three options if things stick like they are:

- Kill off characters every now and then, particularly the ones who are blantantly inexperienced at fighting (*cough* Allison *cough*), uncautious (*cough* warren *cough*), or who simply don't want to be doing what they're doing (*cough* hank *cough*)
- Stop advancing the plot (ie - Kirkman's arc, which is character development, which i'm THRILLED about, but imagine if this Action themed comic became ONLY character to character romance, without the political intrigue or fighting sequences)
- Get some big plot holes... which could be avoided by a tragedy OTHER than death, like disorganization.
- Keep things how they are, but introduce a second X-Book. (which is entirely plausible, and could keep things under control for a while)

But in a militaristic team, Death is BOUND to happen.

I am being a bit extreme here, and I do love the book, but too many things are happening too fast and It could rip this whole dealy apart.
 

Nas-T!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
225
Location
The JHB Hellmouth, RSA
Dr.Strangefate said:
Also, Ultimate X-Men would quickly become over run with crappy, undeveloped characters if they just kept on letting the roster grow and grow and grow

Or maybe, just maybe, they could just STOP INTRODUCING NEW CHARACTERS for a while! The reason the regular MU became so infested with muties was because:

Creator A comes on and introduces Mutants X, Y and Z. Creator A leaves the title. Creator B comes on and kicks off Mutant X, gives Mutant Y a makeover and kills off Mutant Z. Then he introduces Mutant A*. He then leaves the title. Creator C comes on and kicks off all the new muties and replaces them with really old ones from twenty years ago. He leaves. Creator A comes back and, because he's burning with desire, brings back Mutant Z from the dead and kills Mutant A*.

Ten years later Creator D shows up and brings back ALL the muties (whether they be dead or not) only to kill them all off again and have Angel have sex with Husk!!!!

Millar kept the mutants to bare minimum. Bendis overran the book with "new mutants" only to leave without doing anything with them. Vaughan made good use of all the characters. Kirkman looks set to safely develop some of the characters who haven't had viable dialogue since #32!!!!

Nas-T!
"..."
 

Latest posts

Top