Is Anyone Else Sick of Death? - SPOILERS...I guess

[Nas-T!]

Unless something happens that turns the public completely agaisnt Xavier again... for reasons other than Mutantism... people are going to keep showing up, or SHIELD will start recruiting more members.

What ever happened to that plot from Mark Millar's run where the school is supposed to be government-funded and inspected by officials and where the kids are basically being trained to be Ultimates? I think they should remove members of the X-Men and make them X-Factor.

I see three options if things stick like they are:

- Kill off characters every now and then, particularly the ones who are blantantly inexperienced at fighting (*cough* Allison *cough*),

Allison has saved members of the team from Sinister and Arcade just by using her powers! Now tell me she's inexperience at fighting (maybe hand-to-hand, but she still kicks ***!)!!

uncautious (*cough* warren *cough*),

Warren's, like, the most cautious person on the team. Isn't he the buzzkill who didn't wanna go to Genosha and then nearly got killed cos he wanted to wait around at the Blackbird instead of saving Longshot?

or who simply don't want to be doing what they're doing (*cough* hank *cough*)

Hank never said he didn't want to be there. Sure, he enjoyed the fame, the popularity and the use of the tech Xavier gave him more than the fights, but I doubt he would've stayed with the team as long as he did if he didn't wanna help out.

- Keep things how they are, but introduce a second X-Book. (which is entirely plausible, and could keep things under control for a while)

A SECOND X-BOOK!? The Ultimate line should remain small and tightly-knit. At most they should expand to fifth or sixth series, and there should not be a second series of any one team. No 2nd Spider-man or X-Men series...otherwise we may as well count the days till the UU becomes exactly like the 616!!

Nas-T!
"..."

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

What ever happened to that plot from Mark Millar's run where the school is supposed to be government-funded and inspected by officials and where the kids are basically being trained to be Ultimates? I think they should remove members of the X-Men and make them X-Factor.

That plot point is still relevant, Xavier still works for fury, but Until the kids aren't just teenagers, Fury's not going to make a task force out of them. Anyways, Ultimate X-Factor is a Mutant Prison at Guantanamo Bay.

Allison has saved members of the team from Sinister and Arcade just by using her powers! Now tell me she's inexperience at fighting (maybe hand-to-hand, but she still kicks ***!)!!

Lets say I take a gun, and I manage to stop a mugger. Does that mean I'm necessarily -good- with the gun? No. Not at all. All she knows how to do is play around with her light powers and not obey the rules.

Warren's, like, the most cautious person on the team.

Who decided to carry Allison, by himself, all the way from Westchester to New York?? Who has let his teammates talk him out of listening to orders designed to keep him healthy and safe on two separate occasions? He was afraid to FIGHT on Krakoa, he was NOT afraid to go. That's not cautious, that's arrogant and cowardly.

Hank never said he didn't want to be there.

Um... remember how he quit the team right before he died? He died because he hooked up with Emma Frost's mutants...

A SECOND X-BOOK!? The Ultimate line should remain small and tightly-knit. At most they should expand to fifth or sixth series, and there should not be a second series of any one team

I agree completely, that's why some of these new writers need to stop introducing characters this rate.... As much as a Love Vaughan.... I guarentee that if somebody counted, he introduced almost twice as many characters as Millar in about a quarter of the length of a run... And I bet Singer will be throwing some new characters in....

I just want the book to be stable, and I was just saying that if some characters have to die in order for others to be introduced and the plot to be advanced, I would NOT have a problem with it.

 

[Fuzzy Birds]

Just to pick up on what you mentioned Doc....I'm counting characters who've had lines. One page cameos i.e Warlock will be left, simply because there's not enough information, or they haven't been confirmed as mutants. The kids killed by Sinister have never been named.

Millar:
Professor X
Cyclops
Jean Grey
Wolverine
Iceman
Beast
Colossus
Storm
Nightcrawler
Kitty Pride
Magneto
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Blob
Toad
Mastermind
Multiple Man
Sabretooth
Hard Drive
Vanisher
Rogue
Juggernaut
Psylocke
Proteus
Meggan
Forge
Detonator
Wasp

Vaughan:
Northstar
Sunspot
Longshot
Spiral
Syndicate
Mystique
Cannonball
Fenris twins

Sinister is an advanced human, Mojo is a fat albino, Arcade is a human, Deathstrike is an advanced human, Cypher is a human. Havok, Polaris, Emma Frost, Karma, Angel, Dazzler, and all those no namers, all introduced by Bendis. Gambit comes from Chuck Austen.

So, by my count, and I'm fairly sure I've missed a couple, Millar introduced 28, Vaughan, 9. Plus, Millar had hundreds of mutants mentioned in his Return of the King arc, what with the flashback to Xavier and Magnetos school, and Magnetos Asteroid M thing, and also during a scene where the X Men are fighting the Acolytes or something.


As for the main argument, I feel that this permanent death thing is certainly in keeping with the feel and tone of the Ultimate Universe, but it does feel a little like writers are using it a little. Sure, there have been no reasons for Beast, Gwen and Gambit to die, and that of course rings true to real life. My biggest gripes with the death scenes so far, is that they've been too realistic.

The UU isn't realistic, it just has a level of realism in it. I think the deaths could have been a little more iconic, and dare I say it, dramatic. It's a comic book, I doubt anyone has any right to complain about unrealistic deaths in a book about lycra clad mutants who turn to steel. So, while I'm not adverse to the idea of killing characters, at least have it for a better reason than 'it's realistic'.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

My guess is that unless Dazzler died from the initial blow, she and warren will likely be saved by Longshot.

He is locked just one or two cell over as we saw from the previous issue. And he is a mutant supremacist who has been specifically told by Fury that all his cellmates are humans. So when he sees a human trying to kill the woman who saved his live back in Genosha... His reaction should be fairly obvious.

If I'm right about Dazzler, that leaves Beast as the only definitive death. Gambit, with his conscience locked inside Rogue is on the comic track to an eventual ressurection.

So we don't really have a bloodbath in the pages of UXM.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

But back to the real point... Millar was on the book for [EDIT: NOT EXACTLY] 50 issues. He utilized a terrorist group, and made it clear that it was a BIG terrorist group. Needless to say, the top figures in the Brotherhood were brought back over and over and developed into (mostly) three dimensional characters. The one arc that I think is an exception is Hellfire and Brimstone, but at least there we got some Blob development, and the eventual release of Magneto

In each storyarc since Millar, they've tried to go a little bit into the minds of a whole bunch of characters leaving us wanting more. Knowing Vaughan as a writer, this is intentional, would he have stayed onboard each and every one of these characters would be completely fleshed out. Now that he's leaving, however, the characters must now face the chance that the next writers won't be as interested in finishing their individual stories... So they'll be tossed aside and replaced by personal favorite of the writer.

but at this point I'm just being pessimistic. So lets just hope things stay good storywise without getting too cluttered.

 

[E]

OK, OK, it wasn't 50 issues. We get it. Move on and stay on topic.

 

[Goodwill]

This'll be a good discussion...

Firstly, I would like everyone to note that I'm on the fence about this subject. There are two sides to the story and both have very valid arguments.

I would like to begin with supporting the deaths in the UU. This is extremely realistic and much more entertaining to see characters being brought to the verge of death and then quickly rehabilitated the next issue. Seriously, when Iceman was down and out for the count, he should've been out for the count. It was almost like Millar was too afraid to knock him off... A sixteen year old kid was smashed under a car and all that happened was his neck broke? No. I would rather have Iceman die than live after that. I don't want to be like, "Please... Like that would ever happen!" every time a character gets injured.

There is a reason why we shouldn't kill off characters, too. It seems that the more promising characters (Gambit, Gwen, and now Dazzler) are more likely to get killed than the flat characters that reflect their 616 counterparts. Like, I was really enjoying what Vaughan was doing with both Gambit and Dazzler... So much so that, if they were to get killed, I would be seriously upset. Here I am and both of the characters that I was crossing my fingers for are now dead. Like, seriously, think about things a little. Characters that are as attractive as Gambit and Dazzler are better off living just because they breath new life into a dying title... Not that UXM is dying, of course, I was just trying to make a point. I would rather see Nightcrawler or Iceman killed off because they aren't doing too much to make me interested in them.