Lame Villains- Should be made better or not?

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
Goodwill said:
Bendis should turn lame characters into forces to be reconned with

No he shouldn't.

Lame is lame. I don't want to see a bunch of issues of a writer trying to make a dopey character cool.
 

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

UltimateE said:
No he shouldn't.

Lame is lame. I don't want to see a bunch of issues of a writer trying to make a dopey character cool.
Doesn't have to be all of them.

It's possible, but some should stay the way they are. It's an interesting idea to play with thought and see if it can be done right.
 

E.Vi.L.

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

Have you ever seen america's dumbest criminals?

There should be a super powered villain equivalent of that.

I say we don't have nearly enough moronic villains that can be bagged by heroes during their lunch break from handling real threats.

They can't all be criminal geniuses or unstoppable forces of nature.

The problem with The Shocker is that he is holding the fort of incompetence alone. He needs reinforcements!
 
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Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

E.Vi.L. said:
They can't all be criminal geniuses or unstoppable forces of nature.
Exactly.
 
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Goodwill

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

Not saying they have to be unstoppable, just that there are certain characters that should be treated as a lame duck and others as threats.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

UltimateE said:
No he shouldn't.

Lame is lame. I don't want to see a bunch of issues of a writer trying to make a dopey character cool.

Don't forget this is Ultimate we're talking about here. Just because a character is lame in 616 doesn't mean it has to be, or should be, in the Ultimate Universe. After all, we've gotten sex changes and sexual preference changes in characters between the two universes, why not how they're viewed as a threat level?

You shouldn't have to worry about seeing "a bunch of issues" of a dopey character in 616 being cool in Ultimate...because its not the same character. There's no change about it. So the character, however inherently lame in 616, could very well be totally different in the Ultimate books. And this should be apparent from their first appearance, depending on how well the author writes them.
 
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Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

Goodwill said:
Not saying they have to be unstoppable, just that there are certain characters that should be treated as a lame duck and others as threats.
I think thats what E.Vi.L. meant, in a way. If not, than I read wrong. But I know what you mean and totally agree.
 

E.Vi.L.

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

Goodwill said:
Not saying they have to be unstoppable, just that there are certain characters that should be treated as a lame duck and others as threats.

That's exactly what I said. Except we probably disagree as to which characters should be treated as lame ducks and which as threats.

At this point, everybody was threated as threats and only the shocker was treated as a lame duck. Well, except Kraven on his first appearance and that was great. But he went and increased his powers. Hopefully he's still pretty low the totem pole. He could go Wiley Coyote on Spider-Man if he ever got free...

Anyway, more lame ducks, please. There ought to be somebody else that can fulfill the role of the Shocker in a story.
 
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Goodwill

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

Kraven may not have been able to beat Spider-Man physically, but I do think he should have been developed as a master hunter... Like, he should have been a brain rather than a supposed muscle. I would've liked that. I don't care about Shocker either way. ;)
 

Blacksword

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

Some characters are just unredeemable. For instance would anyone care to describe how say Stilt-Man (to take another villian Bendis has deservedly ridiculed) could be made cool. His power is super extendible stilts.... and given the name it's gotta be something to do with that.

And to be fair to Bendis he did redeem some semi-lame villians. Ultimate Electro certainly makes his 616 original look like a laughing stock. And with regards to Shocker, do we really need two electrical villians? No. I think with Shocker Bendis is making fun of the tendency of classic Marvel to duplicate villians with similar powers.
 
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Pandrio

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

Blacksword said:
And with regards to Shocker, do we really need two electrical villians? No. I think with Shocker Bendis is making fun of the tendency of classic Marvel to duplicate villians with similar powers.
Isn't Shocker sound or something? I don't think he's an "electrical villain", even though it would seem that way from his name.
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

Pandrio said:
Isn't Shocker sound or something? I don't think he's an "electrical villain", even though it would seem that way from his name.
Not sound. Not Electrical either. It's like shockwaves the ones that are associated with Earthquakes.
 

Pandrio

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

TheManWithoutFear said:
Not sound. Not Electrical either. It's like shockwaves the ones that are associated with Earthquakes.
All I knew was it wasn't electricity.
 

RUFUS!

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

Not sound. Not Electrical either. It's like shockwaves the ones that are associated with Earthquakes.
yeah, according to a bio of him "The heavily-cushioned battle-suit is made to absorb the potentially-lethal vibrations generated by the Shocker's vibro-shock units. It can shake off Spider-Man's webbing." "The vibro-shock units, once only built into a sheath that Schultz wore over his hands but currently built into his entire uniform, use high-pressure air blasts to cause powerful vibrations."
 
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Blacksword

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

Ah I see, I was going by the Spider-Man cartoon of several years past, where they appeared to be some sort of energy balsts. Shocker to electricity was simple conclusion. And really for a guy who uses vibrations wouldn't Vibrator be more accurate... but given conotations perhaps Sonic something. But schock and vibration aren't two readily associated words.

I was wondering at Ultimate Shocker having vibrating units, cause again I'd thought electricty. I mean even the quilted padding would seem more useful as insulation against electric schocks... oh well....

Though my point about Marvel creating too many characters with similar powers still stands.
 

E.Vi.L.

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

Blacksword said:
And really for a guy who uses vibrations wouldn't Vibrator be more accurate...

Oh yeah, and his Vibrators should be strapped on.
 

Guijllons

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

I think he should rebrand himself as 'the fuzzy tipped wriggler'.
 

Doc Comic

Well-Known Member
Re: Ultimate Spider-Man #86 discussion (spoilers)

It used to be that the Shocker's vibro-shock units simply fired highly compressed air, but I don't know if that still holds true.
 

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