Lame Villains- Should be made better or not?

Bass said:
Really? I thought that was Sin-Eater. Crap. Okay, so I was wrong above, but my argument still is true. :shifty:

Waitaminute. What do you know anyway Comic? You're full of ****. You don't even know what Shazam stands for when Black Adam says it. :roll:




:p
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Sin Eater killed Captain Jean DeWolff, in Spectacular Spider-Man #107, not Captain Stacey.
 
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AHA! So I was right! My point becomes completely 100% valid, I just got the names wrong. In your face, truth! Sweet. Thanks The Overlord. :D

And Ice? That pic is WIZARD!

(You respond with "CAPTIAL!", ok?)
 
icemastertron said:
OffTopic.jpg
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I should have that as a bumper sticker...once I get another car. *sigh*
 
Personally I think revamping B list 616 villains is a great idea, I don't see why people would oppose, most of the A list villains like Kingpin and Magneto had been B list characters revamped into A list villains later on.

Anyway this thread contains some ideas had to revamp DD's rogues gallery in the Ultimate Universe:
http://www.ultimatecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2266
 
I mostly agree with Bass, in posts #24 and #33.

Having the writer in cahoots with the superhero in beating up and mocking a lame villain looks bad. It can make the hero look like a bully.

Also, turning a lame villain into a sicko is a poor instant fix.

The ideal person to write a lame villain is someone who loves that villain regardless, and can transmit that sense of fun to the reader.

Ultxon is right too: "... many lame villains were only made lame, most of the classic lame characters were taken quite seriusly back in the day."

So if the writer can bring back that old-time feeling, great. Batman: the animated series proves it can be done.

But, if a writer thinks that the character could be fun or cool if they were changed a bit, that's good too.

Nobody killed Captain Stacy. He gave up his life knocking a young boy out of the way of rubble that was falling because of a fight between Spiderman and Doctor Octopus. All the facts are in the trade paperback Spiderman: the death of Captain Stacy.
 
David Blue said:
Nobody killed Captain Stacy. He gave up his life knocking a young boy out of the way of rubble that was falling because of a fight between Spiderman and Doctor Octopus. All the facts are in the trade paperback Spiderman: the death of Captain Stacy.
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Indirectly caused by Doctor Octopus. Thank you, good sir, and say hi to your sister Ashley for me.
 
Of course this raises the question is it always a mistake to make a goofy villain a dark character. Take the DD villain Mr. Hyde, he is supposed to be the incarination of evil, but he was been portrayed as a goofy screw-up who can be taken down by a mail box. He has done evil things in the past, like torturing Jarvis, killing a man and writing his name the man's arm and trying to blow up NYC just to kill his old partner Cobra. Given the nature and premise of the character (as a man becomming evil incarinate) doesn't make sense that the character is writen as evil, rather than a goofy screw-up.
 
David Blue said:
I mostly agree with Bass, in posts #24 and #33.
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First time I've ever seen anyone reference the actual post numbers.

:applause:






Why isn't there an applause empticon?
 
David Blue said:
Nobody killed Captain Stacy. He gave up his life knocking a young boy out of the way of rubble that was falling because of a fight between Spiderman and Doctor Octopus. All the facts are in the trade paperback Spiderman: the death of Captain Stacy.
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Would that make it manslaughter, then?
 
DIrishB said:
I believe so, though not sure what degree it would be. Probably first degree, since even though it was accidental, Doc Ock was being reckless and not caring about the safety of others.
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If I'm remembering my Law & Order correctly, it is Manslaughter in the 1st degree.
 
ourchair said:
Would that make it manslaughter, then?
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Manslaughter by who?

The Daily Bugle blamed Spiderman. The public appeared to follow the Bugle. The surviving daughter of Captain Stacy, Gwen Stacy, passionately blamed Spiderman, and for this reason endorsed "law and order" candidate district attorney Sam Bullit, a former cop expelled from the force (and a crime boss) who promised to take down Spiderman by any means, and who was supported (naturally) by the Daily Bugle.

Nobody seemed to attach any blame to Doctor Octopus. (It didn't seem like there was any gain for anyone in blaming him, whereas the basis for the political alliance between Sam Bullit and J. Jonah Jameson was: get Spiderman!)

Iceman also piled on to the anti-Spiderman bandwagon, under a false impression created by another of Spiderman's unlucky choices.

After Spiderman and Iceman rescued Daily Bugle editor 'Robbie' Robertson (who had assembled a damning file of information on Sam Bullit's career) from Bullit's thugs (who were about to kill Robinson), Mr. Bullit had the bad judgment to say in front of cameras that this couldn't be Robertson because his (Bullit's) boys never failed. (Oops!)

That left Foggy Nelson's candidacy unopposed. I don't know that he ever took any action on the death of Captain Stacy. If he did, given the climate of public opinion, it would have been against Spiderman.

The power of the press is formidable.

Now, back on lame villains, how do you think Doctor Bong would best be handled in the Ultimate Universe?

I think if you're going to have his sparring partners like Deadpool, She-Hulk and Howard the Duck appear - and I'm not saying that's a good idea - then you want Doctor Bong written by someone with a sense of humour such that they pretty much love him the way he is. I don't think you can or should try to "ultimise" a villain like this to make him cool. But nor is it interesting to have him show up to be mocked and beaten. He's Doctor Bong - there's no news in telling us that this is a silly idea.
 
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David Blue said:
Now, back on lame villains, how do you think Doctor Bong would best be handled in the Ultimate Universe?
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I believe there is a thread where I jotted down my ideas for Ultimate Doctor Bong.
 
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