LOVE USM but...

Ultimates

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I started like 11/04, with vol. 1-11 at my disposal. That was GREAT, and I LOVED reading them. But the problem now, which some of you may have suffered yourselves, is that now it seems to go S-L-O-W. And someone else's post mentioned that they arent crazy about arcs, and in some ways, i gotta agree. Dont get me wrong, I LOVED reading the books, but i would like some continuity from them, as mentioned. Like, I loved reading Ultimate Six, because it was kinda like a continuation of some of the other stories...
 

DIrishB

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Ultimates said:
I started like 11/04, with vol. 1-11 at my disposal. That was GREAT, and I LOVED reading them. But the problem now, which some of you may have suffered yourselves, is that now it seems to go S-L-O-W. And someone else's post mentioned that they arent crazy about arcs, and in some ways, i gotta agree. Dont get me wrong, I LOVED reading the books, but i would like some continuity from them, as mentioned. Like, I loved reading Ultimate Six, because it was kinda like a continuation of some of the other stories...

I understand what you mean. I first started collecting Ultimate trades about a year and a half ago, picking up a new USM trade every week or so. Then I started picking up UXM and the Ultimates. Around the end of last year I started to pick up the individual issues so I wouldn't have to wait several months to be on top of what was going on in the Ultimate Universe, and have been collecting the individual issues ever since.

As for the continuing subplot thing, I think the reason we havent seen this approach utilized more often in the Ultimate universe has a lot to do with the trade format (I think the editors pressure the writers to keep most arcs relatively self-contained to make it easier for the unintiated masses to pick up any random trade and be able to have some idea whats going on). I also think it has a lot to do with that whole "Continuity isn't important, just good stories are" approach that Marvel has taken with the ultimate books (though I don't think one negates the other, in fact I think its just the opposite).
 

AngryFlower

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Would you really say theres that many continuity issues in the ultimate universe. personally i wouldn't say there's anything major just a few tiny pieces.
 

Guijllons

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AngryFlower said:
Would you really say theres that many continuity issues in the ultimate universe. personally i wouldn't say there's anything major just a few tiny pieces.
At the moment the only continuity issues are really with the timing of events. Ok, a couple of other niggles, but not much. Nothing Xorneto-esque anyway.
 

Goodwill

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AngryFlower said:
Would you really say theres that many continuity issues in the ultimate universe. personally i wouldn't say there's anything major just a few tiny pieces.

Welcome Angry F! Good to see you weighing in on the matter of continuity... It's really a touchy subject here! :)


All joking aside, I do agree that the inconsistancies can be ignored, but there are problems time-wise, which shouldn't matter, either. For instance, New Avengers is continuing while the House of M is changing the face of the 616 universe... That, to me, makes little sense.
 

Goodwill

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Right, but isn't that's what's happening here, too? We got the Ultimate Secret issue that said this is before Ultimates 2... That's essentially the "before and after" that you're talking about, right?
 

DIrishB

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AngryFlower said:
Would you really say theres that many continuity issues in the ultimate universe. personally i wouldn't say there's anything major just a few tiny pieces.

Nothing HUGE, but there have been more than a few pretty obvious screw-ups (Iron Man origin-this one's new, and the early FF appearance in USM Super Special #1, who came first, the Ultimates or the Ultimate FF, etc). Other than that the major discrepancies are time references within the titles themselves (in one issue an event will be said to happen in a certain month, later on it'll have happened in a totally different month, etc). Again, nothing major, but it still bugs me.

TheManWithoutFear said:
I agree that the continuity errors are nothing major yet. And E, I also agree there should be running subplots.

DIrishB, that was one of the most enlightening posts I've ever read, good thoughts. Thanks.

Thanks MWoF!!

Goodwill said:
Right, but isn't that's what's happening here, too? We got the Ultimate Secret issue that said this is before Ultimates 2... That's essentially the "before and after" that you're talking about, right?

I think thats what he meant. But at least Ultimate Secret had that nice little mention to make it concrete when it occurs (though Thor's appearance would've placed it where it was anyway, but you know what I mean).
 

Goodwill

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Ok, so all we're asking for is the more concrete conclusion to these timeline errors? Doesn't seem like too much for Marvel to settle. :)
 

Goodwill

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I think the two problems that we have with continuity was the Marvel Team Up issues and UFF. First, we've got Bendis introducing these characters in the UMTU series because his anxiousness can't be controlled... Bendis has creative ADD. A perfect example would be the reason we've got DP showing in USM. The characters who were introduced in the Team Up could have been better developed in their respective titles, but Bendis HAD to introduce them. Oh well. Then, when Bendis was trying to clean up his mess with the UFF, he made it worse! Uggh... I think I'm finished with the continuity messes.
 

ourchair

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DIrishB said:
I also think it has a lot to do with that whole "Continuity isn't important, just good stories are" approach that Marvel has taken with the ultimate books (though I don't think one negates the other, in fact I think its just the opposite).
It's interesting you phrase it that way, because I feel like that isn't so much an Ultimate policy as it is a general policy that was implemented after Quesada was brought on as Editor in Chief, in an attempt to recover from the bankruptcy.

Meaning that this whole "stories first, continuity maybe" approach was something born out of Quesada's mandate to increase the audience. I tend to think that the Ultimate line was created FROM that mandate, something that seems to be constantly affirmed within the first few trades of Ultimate Spider-Man and their accompanying extras.
 

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Goodwill said:
I think the two problems that we have with continuity was the Marvel Team Up issues and UFF. First, we've got Bendis introducing these characters in the UMTU series because his anxiousness can't be controlled... Bendis has creative ADD. A perfect example would be the reason we've got DP showing in USM. The characters who were introduced in the Team Up could have been better developed in their respective titles, but Bendis HAD to introduce them. Oh well. Then, when Bendis was trying to clean up his mess with the UFF, he made it worse! Uggh... I think I'm finished with the continuity messes.

I think that's putting too much blame on Bendis. It was more poor planning, for which I'd blame Marvel as a whole (or at least the editors & head honchos).
 

Goodwill

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UltimateE said:
I think that's putting too much blame on Bendis. It was more poor planning, for which I'd blame Marvel as a whole (or at least the editors & head honchos).

Not that I hold Bendis completely responsible, which I don't, but a lot of what he did was confine some of the characters to what they were once known as in 616. He just introduced them to have them in a story. Depending on how much freedom he has to come up with a title, Bendis could've held off on UMTU and then had these characters show up.
 

DIrishB

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ourchair said:
It's interesting you phrase it that way, because I feel like that isn't so much an Ultimate policy as it is a general policy that was implemented after Quesada was brought on as Editor in Chief, in an attempt to recover from the bankruptcy.

Meaning that this whole "stories first, continuity maybe" approach was something born out of Quesada's mandate to increase the audience. I tend to think that the Ultimate line was created FROM that mandate, something that seems to be constantly affirmed within the first few trades of Ultimate Spider-Man and their accompanying extras.

You make a lot of good points, and I don't doubt you're right on all counts. I'm just saying I don't think continuity should be taken so lightly. I also agree it shouldn't box writers in. I just don't see why they can't keep the titles light on being dependant on past continuity (which in a lot of ways they've done) without having all the screw-ups. Think about it, in each case of a discrepancy (at least concerning most), a simple dialogue adjustment would fix most. To me this doesn't seem like its restraining the writers telling their stories. It seems more like the writers/editors were just careless in most cases. I'm sure there may be some instances (and I'm only referring to the Ultimate Universe as I'm extremely, but admittedly, ignorant on 616 and DC continuity) where its more complicated than that, but if Machio and Lowe were really doing their job (and Bendis wasn't such a creative ADD aficianado--perfect description by the way Goodwill, very enlightened viewpoint) we wouldn't have all these mistakes. I know I ***** a lot about continuity, so I apologize, but it just gets to me.
 

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