Make a better version of Ultimatum

The Overlord

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Ok, just for fun, make a version of Ultimatum that is better then Loeb's (not a hard thing to do, but hey still could be fun.)

You have to keep the same basic plot, Magneto using a tidal wave to try to destroy NYC, but besides that, its up to you on how to improve the story.
 

Zombipanda

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oo! There's a thought!

I've got me some ideas; something that ties together all the lead-in to Ultimatum (INCLUDING Ultimates 3), Ultimate Clone Saga, Millar's run on Fantastic Four. And oh yeah. The Dark Phoenix Saga.

Ha! I love these kinds of things.
 
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The Overlord

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oo! There's a thought!

I've got me some ideas; something that ties together all the lead-in to Ultimatum (INCLUDING Ultimates 3), Ultimate Clone Saga, Millar's run on Fantastic Four. And oh yeah. The Dark Phoenix Saga.

Ha! I love these kinds of things.

Well come on, share your ideas, whether they are serious or silly.

Seriously an easy to make these story better is to actually show the deaths and make them more dramatic, like DD gets killed trying to stop the freaks and psychos of Hell's Kitchen from looting stuff in the aftermath of the wave or Wasp dies well fighting the Blob, who was trying kill some civilians and manages to kill Blob in the process.

Silly idea: Ultimate Grandmaster got drunk one day, mind controlled Magneto into doing all this and caused all the crap that occurred under Kirkman and Loeb's pen. Spidey beats him in a game of twister and grandmaster agrees to undo all the stuff he did. That is better then the junk Loeb gave us.
 

Zombipanda

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Well come on, share your ideas, whether they are serious or silly.

Seriously an easy to make these story better is to actually show the deaths and make them more dramatic, like DD gets killed trying to stop the freaks and psychos of Hell's Kitchen from looting stuff in the aftermath of the wave or Wasp dies well fighting the Blob, who was trying kill some civilians and manages to kill Blob in the process.

Silly idea: Ultimate Grandmaster got drunk one day, mind controlled Magneto into doing all this and caused all the crap that occurred under Kirkman and Loeb's pen. Spidey beats him in a game of twister and grandmaster agrees to undo all the stuff he did. That is better then the junk Loeb gave us.

Give me a little while to gather thoughts together. I have the threads but I need a minute to just sit down and make it polish.
 
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Captain Canuck

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I don't really want to go to the trouble of doing this whole thing, but i think Dare Devil died b/c the sound, smell, and feeling of a tidal wave large enough to wipe out NYC overloaded his senses and he couldn't figure out what was going on, so he died in a panic.

That's my two cents for now.
 

The Overlord

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I don't really want to go to the trouble of doing this whole thing, but i think Dare Devil died b/c the sound, smell, and feeling of a tidal wave large enough to wipe out NYC overloaded his senses and he couldn't figure out what was going on, so he died in a panic.

That's my two cents for now.

That's still a lame death, man.
 

Willverine

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Hello... it's me again.

Here's my better version of Ultimatum:

Have 616 Scarlet Witch get emotional and say "No More Jeph Loeb."

Problem solved.
 

Zombipanda

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So, I totally ganked this from a roleplaying game I'm in, but it applies to what I'd do with Ultimatum. I'd open with a lecture at Berkeley from the elder Dr. Strange on the nature of mutants, about five to ten years ago. This would be the text.

"In the opening pages of Common Sense Thomas Paine warned us about the blurred distinctions between society and government. 'Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one creates intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is our patron, the last a punisher'. We are rapidly approaching an unprecedented turning point in our history, where wants are negligible barricades to our growth and restraints of vice can no longer be suitably restrained. I see before me a generation of youth who have outlived the necessity of the social contract, yet who, out of benevolence and sympathy, still find unity and purpose in the shared community of being

...

We have spent generations finding ourselves yoked tighter and tighter, tethered to the rotting and bloated corpse that calls itself 'government'. For decades now, it has presumed itself to be the gatekeeper of our transcendence. It has placated us with words like 'superhumans', believing falsely that we do not know.

...

That we do not know this term is a blasphemy, a last gasp in the government's dying war against society; one final attempt to convince us that we are less than human, that we need those who are greater than human to govern us

....

They deride so many of you as 'mutants', as if that which arises naturally from our spirit is aberrant, a genetic fluke of nature; as if greatness only comes from that which is artificially engineered, from what their scalpels mold, from those that their few and chosen elect. It has tried to foster in our hearts that great lie which nourishes government and starves society: that we are born unequal, that we only earn equality through their approval; and they try to bait us through the promise that, through them, we can personally achieve something greater than equality. They thrive on competition, on the warring of individual against individual, fully knowing that competition itself will soon be an anachronism

...

You are all perfect. They would have you believe that "mutations" are merely the happenstances of random, natural selection. These are natural, but they are reflections of true, universal nature, a concept they can never fully understand, a concept they fear. Your powers, our powers, these conscious reflections of the mind, the soul, the personality, the motivations inside each of you, could not merely be happenstance. It is the willful manifestation of your very being. It is proof that our evolution, each and every one of us, is self-determined. Designations of above and below have no more meaning. Designations of structure have no meaning. It has become, merely, what we will it to be. When all things hold power, power ceases to be. When there is true equality, power ceases to be. You are stepping forward into a post-human world, where your limitations are only designated by how much you are willing to dream. These days are your chrysalis.

...

I'll leave you with prophecy, and promise. In the next half a century you will see either great war or great revolution - either war so intense as to obliterate the ground beneath your feet, leaving barren desert and suffocating order for time immemorial; or revolution so profound as to lift us all beyond our wildest expectations, to upend thousands upon thousands of years of precedent, stepping upward into a world post-economic, post-political, post-governmental, post-societal. Regardless, it will be a decision that rests wholly on the shoulders of your generation. They will say you hold the future in your hands, as they have said to every generation, and for once it will be wholly and unequivocally true. There is no mysticism in this omen, no sleight of hand, no magic. It is simply inevitability."




From there, we'd ramp right into the destruction of New York City.
 
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Zombipanda

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It's already better than Loeb's Ultimatum, and you're just now getting to the story, with the destruction of NYC.

Yeah. That would just be the introduction. First couple pages or so. The whole of the Ultimate Universe up until now has been the superhuman arms race. So this would be the great big finale to that. It would seek to highlight the distinction between superhumans and mutants. The core of mutation has never really been explained either in 616 or the Ultimate Universe. We're used to pseudo-science in comics, but mutants really are a big gaping hole. How they work is simply not how evolution works. Even if you can get past the dramatic leap of hyper-evolution, there's still the fact that the experimental process of evolution would have 99% of mutant manifestations ending in messy ends for the mutant and everyone around them. There has to be an intelligent design behind mutation, and that would be at the core of the story: mutants as a generational, subconscious transhumanist movement. And at the heart of that would be the conflict between news gods and old gods. Magneto's attack would be the opening salvo, but he'd be dead by halfway through the series. In all honesty, he's not that compelling a character. Give him one last villainous hurrah and then splatter his brains for good. The thing would be patterned on a classic epic, with Marvel characters cast in the roles of heroes, monsters, and gods.
 
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The Overlord

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Yeah. That would just be the introduction. First couple pages or so. The whole of the Ultimate Universe up until now has been the superhuman arms race. So this would be the great big finale to that. It would seek to highlight the distinction between superhumans and mutants. The core of mutation has never really been explained either in 616 or the Ultimate Universe. We're used to pseudo-science in comics, but mutants really are a big gaping hole. How they work is simply not how evolution works. Even if you can get past the dramatic leap of hyper-evolution, there's still the fact that the experimental process of evolution would have 99% of mutant manifestations ending in messy ends for the mutant and everyone around them. There has to be an intelligent design behind mutation, and that would be at the core of the story: mutants as a generational, subconscious transhumanist movement. And at the heart of that would be the conflict between news gods and old gods. Magneto's attack would be the opening salvo, but he'd be dead by halfway through the series. In all honesty, he's not that compelling a character. Give him one last villainous hurrah and then splatter his brains for good. The thing would be patterned on a classic epic, with Marvel characters cast in the roles of heroes, monsters, and gods.

Actually they did give an explanation of sorts for mutants in the 616 universe, the cosmic beings known the Celestials altered humanity's genetic make up in the far past, which lead to the creation of mutants. In theory mankind could have become god like beings in say 5000 years, if not for M-day.

Anyway this is interesting, but I have a few questions, if magneto dies half way through, how is the conflict carried on after his death? Who would be the major players in this conflict?

Why would mutants be the new gods and not altered humans, wouldn't altered humans be even newer then mutants? Unless that is not what you are getting at.
 

Zombipanda

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Actually they did give an explanation of sorts for mutants in the 616 universe, the cosmic beings known the Celestials altered humanity's genetic make up in the far past, which lead to the creation of mutants. In theory mankind could have become god like beings in say 5000 years, if not for M-day.

Eh. That explanation never appealed to me. Very Scientology-ish. "Aliens colonizing Earth" has always just kind of bored me as a fictional conceit. I just don't see the appeal.

The Overlord said:
Anyway this is interesting, but I have a few questions, if magneto dies half way through, how is the conflict carried on after his death? Who would be the major players in this conflict?

Why would mutants be the new gods and not altered humans, wouldn't altered humans be even newer then mutants? Unless that is not what you are getting at.

It's not. You'll see. The Doc Strange lecture is kind of at the heart of it. There's not really a big pseudo-scientific explanation behind it all, no great mystery. It's really just about the term Strange uses about halfway through his comments: "self-determined evolution".
 
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The Overlord

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Eh. That explanation never appealed to me. Very Scientology-ish. "Aliens colonizing Earth" has always just kind of bored me as a fictional conceit. I just don't see the appeal.

Well crazier things have happned the 616 universe and it is an explantion, of sorts.

The real explantion of why there are mutants is far more simple, Stan Lee was tired of having to come up with explanations of how people got powers, through say radiation or going to Tibet or whatever. It was just easier to say some super powered characters were born that way and not try to explain how they got powers.

For the most part I don't care where mutants came from, I know that isn't how evolution works, but I don't care because I am willing to file such things under "Willing suspension of disbelief". However if someone created a really interesting story on the origin of mutants, I wouldn't mind seeing it.


It's not. You'll see. The Doc Strange lecture is kind of at the heart of it. There's not really a big pseudo-scientific explanation behind it all, no great mystery. It's really just about the term Strange uses about halfway through his comments: "self-determined evolution".


Ah you are being mysterious, okay. Well so far its interesting, hope to hear more soon.
 
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Here's an idea I posted elswhere:

Ultimatum#1: A powerful alien empire has descended on Earth and ordered that Jean Grey, keeper of the Phoenix God, be given to them or they will unleash the Four Plagues of Destruction upon Earth. One plague is unleashed as an example of their power and causes untold damages and deaths. The most powerful teams, of good and bad alignment, are now hunting for the missing Jean Grey to save the world from annihilation.

Ultimatum/ Ulitmate X-men: The Earth has just been attacked and the Phoenix God has suddenly gone dormant within Jean Grey. Now as the X-men scramble to make heads or tails of the situation, the Brotherhood has come for Jean Grey.....but they have to stand in line because the Inner Circle is calling first dibs on Jean's head!!

-It would be revealed that the Hellfire Club and Church of Shi'ar Enlightenment were human/alien hybrids that came to Earth centuries ago in search of the Phoenix God: one group to worship the Phoenix (Church of Shi'ar) the other to dominate it(Hellfire Club). The Inner Circle would be the strike group for the remnants of the Hellfire Club and consist of ultimate versions of: Gladiator(Red King), Oracle(Red Queen), Smasher(Black Rook), Manta(White Rook), Hussar(Black Knight), Earthquake(White Knight)

Ultimatum/Ultimates: S.H.I.E.L.D has ordered the Ultimates to find and capture Jean Grey by any means necessary....and to eliminate any opposition!

Ultimatum/ Fantastic Four: The Fantastic Four split up to both investigate the Aliens and to find the now missing Jean Grey. Sue and Ben Grimm offer their help to the X-men in finding Jean, while Reed and Johnny discover something far worse than the situation already is.......

Ultimatum/Ultimate Spider-Man:peter Parker is trying to save lives in a devastated New York city....it's a good thing he has Shadowcat and Iceman to help him but can they stand against the invading troops sent by the Alien invaders?

Ultimately....no pun intended....the X-men, Fantastic Four, Ultimates, Brotherhood and other heroes and villains would have to stop the Four Plagues from destroying the world.

-The Phoenix God would be revealed to be the Fifth member of the Plagues, a group of ravaging gods controlled by an advanced, malevolent alien race.

-The Landscape would be changed: Savage Land would have been wiped out alond with some other major countries, U.S.A would be mostly devastated resulting in relocation of S.H.I.E.L.D Headquartes, the Capitol, the Xavier Institute
etc.,

-a lot more super-powered teams would form

-mutant/human relations would become better

-the four plagues are free after the events of Ultimatum and secretly find their own hosts on Earth

Ultimate Ramifications in the Ultimate Universe

Ultimate Fantastic Four
-Reed dies and Johnny lies in a comatose state; Sue and Ben end the Fantastic Four and join a new team
-Doom would walk away from Ultimatum with alien technology which would eventually mean bad news for everybody

The Ultimates

-The Ulitmates would lose Quicksilver and Giant-Man to Ultimatum
-Cap would lose his left arm and get a bionic replacement
-an accident would cause further mutations in Wasp
-a hidden conspiracy during Ultimatum would come to light and split the team into two factions: one still under S.H.I.E.L.D led by Fury and the other freelance led by Captain America
-Sue and Ben join Cap's offshoot team: Ultimate Defenders

Ultimate X-men

-Wolverine, Cyclops and Xavier would die during Ultimatum
-Magneto, Blob, Mastermind, Multiple Man would die during Ultimatum
-Rogue leaves the X-men in the wake of Ultimatum; Dazzler, Toad and Angel leave with her
-Jean becomes Headmistress of the Xavier Institute
-the remaining X-men: Jean, Storm, Beast, Colossus, Pyro and Firestar are joined by Havok and Polaris
-the Academy of Tomorrow is acquired by S.H.I.E.L.D
-a mysterious, powerful mutant named Exodus joins the team
-the Phoenix God leaves Jean permanently and finds a new host in a secretly resurrected Charles Xavier
 

Mattimeo84

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Here's an idea I posted elswhere:

Ultimatum#1: A powerful alien empire has descended on Earth and ordered that Jean Grey, keeper of the Phoenix God, be given to them or they will unleash the Four Plagues of Destruction upon Earth. One plague is unleashed as an example of their power and causes untold damages and deaths. The most powerful teams, of good and bad alignment, are now hunting for the missing Jean Grey to save the world from annihilation.

Ultimatum/ Ulitmate X-men: The Earth has just been attacked and the Phoenix God has suddenly gone dormant within Jean Grey. Now as the X-men scramble to make heads or tails of the situation, the Brotherhood has come for Jean Grey.....but they have to stand in line because the Inner Circle is calling first dibs on Jean's head!!

-It would be revealed that the Hellfire Club and Church of Shi'ar Enlightenment were human/alien hybrids that came to Earth centuries ago in search of the Phoenix God: one group to worship the Phoenix (Church of Shi'ar) the other to dominate it(Hellfire Club). The Inner Circle would be the strike group for the remnants of the Hellfire Club and consist of ultimate versions of: Gladiator(Red King), Oracle(Red Queen), Smasher(Black Rook), Manta(White Rook), Hussar(Black Knight), Earthquake(White Knight)

Ultimatum/Ultimates: S.H.I.E.L.D has ordered the Ultimates to find and capture Jean Grey by any means necessary....and to eliminate any opposition!

Ultimatum/ Fantastic Four: The Fantastic Four split up to both investigate the Aliens and to find the now missing Jean Grey. Sue and Ben Grimm offer their help to the X-men in finding Jean, while Reed and Johnny discover something far worse than the situation already is.......

Ultimatum/Ultimate Spider-Man:peter Parker is trying to save lives in a devastated New York city....it's a good thing he has Shadowcat and Iceman to help him but can they stand against the invading troops sent by the Alien invaders?

Ultimately....no pun intended....the X-men, Fantastic Four, Ultimates, Brotherhood and other heroes and villains would have to stop the Four Plagues from destroying the world.

-The Phoenix God would be revealed to be the Fifth member of the Plagues, a group of ravaging gods controlled by an advanced, malevolent alien race.

-The Landscape would be changed: Savage Land would have been wiped out alond with some other major countries, U.S.A would be mostly devastated resulting in relocation of S.H.I.E.L.D Headquartes, the Capitol, the Xavier Institute
etc.,

-a lot more super-powered teams would form

-mutant/human relations would become better

-the four plagues are free after the events of Ultimatum and secretly find their own hosts on Earth

Ultimate Ramifications in the Ultimate Universe

Ultimate Fantastic Four
-Reed dies and Johnny lies in a comatose state; Sue and Ben end the Fantastic Four and join a new team
-Doom would walk away from Ultimatum with alien technology which would eventually mean bad news for everybody

The Ultimates

-The Ulitmates would lose Quicksilver and Giant-Man to Ultimatum
-Cap would lose his left arm and get a bionic replacement
-an accident would cause further mutations in Wasp
-a hidden conspiracy during Ultimatum would come to light and split the team into two factions: one still under S.H.I.E.L.D led by Fury and the other freelance led by Captain America
-Sue and Ben join Cap's offshoot team: Ultimate Defenders

Ultimate X-men

-Wolverine, Cyclops and Xavier would die during Ultimatum
-Magneto, Blob, Mastermind, Multiple Man would die during Ultimatum
-Rogue leaves the X-men in the wake of Ultimatum; Dazzler, Toad and Angel leave with her
-Jean becomes Headmistress of the Xavier Institute
-the remaining X-men: Jean, Storm, Beast, Colossus, Pyro and Firestar are joined by Havok and Polaris
-the Academy of Tomorrow is acquired by S.H.I.E.L.D
-a mysterious, powerful mutant named Exodus joins the team
-the Phoenix God leaves Jean permanently and finds a new host in a secretly resurrected Charles Xavier

I'd buy this, who are your "artists"? Great ideas!

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