Marvel Cinematic Multiverse Film & TV Show Discussion

[thecomicperson]

@Dallas Kinard and other users have expressed on the MCU timeline thread that the thread should keep timeline related, so, i made this other thread to discuss MCM (Marvel Cinematic Multiverse), so, i don't have nothing else to say, so if someone wants to start a discussion or share his opinion, here they can

 

[thecomicperson]

So Charlie Cox confirmed that the Matt Murdock we saw in NWH is not the same character from The Defenders Saga, but a reimagination, a "Born Again" in his words, but also he said that some things from that shows will stay as canon, so a MCU fan should watch those shows to see some things that would become canon to the MCU, also because they are so good, or at least most of them, so if someone reading this is a fan of the MCU and wants to know everything from the universe, only see the 3 seasons of Daredevil with 13 episodes each one and the only Defenders season with 8 episodes, they are on Disney+ without any cut scene from Netflix's version

Also in my headcanon, they are still canon, because of the references they make to the films, but the official statement indicates that there are 2 main MCU timelines, the MCU main films and TV shows + the other ABC shows, Helstrom and the promotional ones, and the Knights/Young Adult timeline with the first 3 phases of the MCU addiitionally

 

[Troutlaw]

So Charlie Cox confirmed that the Matt Murdock we saw in NWH is not the same character from The Defenders Saga, but a reimagination, a "Born Again" in his words, but also he said that some things from that shows will stay as canon, so a MCU fan should watch those shows to see some things that would become canon to the MCU, also because they are so good, or at least most of them, so if someone reading this is a fan of the MCU and wants to know everything from the universe, only see the 3 seasons of Daredevil with 13 episodes each one and the only Defenders season with 8 episodes, they are on Disney+ without any cut scene from Netflix's version

Also in my headcanon, they are still canon, because of the references they make to the films, but the official statement indicates that there are 2 main MCU timelines, the MCU main films and TV shows + the other ABC shows, Helstrom and the promotional ones, and the Knights/Young Adult timeline with the first 3 phases of the MCU addiitionally

That's literally not what he meant.

"In keeping with a lot of things in the MCU ... It's a good moment to have a few years [pass] ... it's reimagined. It's slightly different ... It's 'born again'"

 

[JohnTitor]

Thor: Ragnarok is a soft reboot too. It doesn't make first 2 movies noncanon.

 

[thecomicperson]

Thor: Ragnarok is a soft reboot too. It doesn't make first 2 movies noncanon.

What?

 

[JohnTitor]

It's completely different than first 2 movies, different tone and esthetics. That's what soft reboot means. Comparing Ragnarok to first 2 movies (or different look of Thanos, different looks of Banner, Rhodey) and being ok with it vs. comparing slightly different Matts (Defenders saga vs. NWH) or slightly different Kingpin (Defenders saga vs. Hawkeye). Purists and deniers are selective and it's ridiculous.

 

[fuzzyfoot]

It's completely different than first 2 movies, different tone and esthetics. That's what soft reboot means. Comparing Ragnarok to first 2 movies (or different look of Thanos, different looks of Banner, Rhodey) and being ok with it vs. comparing slightly different Matts (Defenders saga vs. NWH) or slightly different Kingpin (Defenders saga vs. Hawkeye). Purists and deniers are selective and it's ridiculous.

Agreed. At this moment the only multiverse films/shows that can be incorporated into the MCU are the previous live action Spider-Man films, as well as Venom 1 and 2. Everything else was already a part of the MCU in one way or another.

 

[Craig]

This is kind of random and pointless, but does anyone else disagree with the way the “phases” are broken down?

Phase 1, no arguments.

Phase 2… ends with Ant-man? Don’t get me wrong, I love that movie but Phase 2 was supposed to be the Empire Strikes Back of the MCU. I also feel like the phases should end with “event” films. So to me, Civil War is the climax of Phase 2. It perfectly functions as the end of the second act of the MCU, with our heroes at an all time low, and even keeps the ESB/lost limb reference going when Bucky gets his arm blown off.

So that makes Black Panther the first chapter of Phase 3 chronologically, which works fine. (Technically Black Widow is first, but it functions just as well in Phase 4 as an epilogue to Nat’s story/an introduction to Yelena.) Or going by release date, Doctor Strange kicks off Phase 3, which is apropos considering his importance to IW/Endgame.

Then on the backend, I think FFH is absolute garbage and not worthy of ending Phase 3 or even kicking off Phase 4. It also takes place so long after Endgame that there’s like 3 shows and 2 movies that come before it chronologically. It’s really just a preamble for NWH to me.

So take your pick. Loki, Black Widow, Shang-Chi, etc. all function much better as a start to Phase 4.

Thoughts?

 

[Pro Bot]

This is kind of random and pointless, but does anyone else disagree with the way the “phases” are broken down?

Phase 1, no arguments.

Phase 2… ends with Ant-man? Don’t get me wrong, I love that movie but Phase 2 was supposed to be the Empire Strikes Back of the MCU. I also feel like the phases should end with “event” films. So to me, Civil War is the climax of Phase 2. It perfectly functions as the end of the second act of the MCU, with our heroes at an all time low, and even keeps the ESB/lost limb reference going when Bucky gets his arm blown off.

So that makes Black Panther the first chapter of Phase 3 chronologically, which works fine. (Technically Black Widow is first, but it functions just as well in Phase 4 as an epilogue to Nat’s story/an introduction to Yelena.) Or going by release date, Doctor Strange kicks off Phase 3, which is apropos considering his importance to IW/Endgame.

Then on the backend, I think FFH is absolute garbage and not worthy of ending Phase 3 or even kicking off Phase 4. It also takes place so long after Endgame that there’s like 3 shows and 2 movies that come before it chronologically. It’s really just a preamble for NWH to me.

So take your pick. Loki, Black Widow, Shang-Chi, etc. all function much better as a start to Phase 4.

Thoughts?

PHASE 1
Captain America: The First Avenger
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Thor
The Incredible Hulk
The Avengers

PHASE 2
Iron Man 3
Thor: The Dark World
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Guardians of the Galaxy
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Ant-Man
Captain America: Civil War

PHASE 3
Black Panther
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Doctor Strange
Thor: Ragnarok
Avengers: Infinity War
Ant-Man and the Wasp
Captain Marvel
Avengers: Endgame
Loki S1

PHASE 4
What If... S1
Eternals
WandaVision S1
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier S1
Spider-Man: Far From Home
Spider-Man: No Way Home
Black Widow
Hawkeye S1

 

[fuzzyfoot]

This is kind of random and pointless, but does anyone else disagree with the way the “phases” are broken down?

Phase 1, no arguments.

Phase 2… ends with Ant-man? Don’t get me wrong, I love that movie but Phase 2 was supposed to be the Empire Strikes Back of the MCU. I also feel like the phases should end with “event” films. So to me, Civil War is the climax of Phase 2. It perfectly functions as the end of the second act of the MCU, with our heroes at an all time low, and even keeps the ESB/lost limb reference going when Bucky gets his arm blown off.

So that makes Black Panther the first chapter of Phase 3 chronologically, which works fine. (Technically Black Widow is first, but it functions just as well in Phase 4 as an epilogue to Nat’s story/an introduction to Yelena.) Or going by release date, Doctor Strange kicks off Phase 3, which is apropos considering his importance to IW/Endgame.

Then on the backend, I think FFH is absolute garbage and not worthy of ending Phase 3 or even kicking off Phase 4. It also takes place so long after Endgame that there’s like 3 shows and 2 movies that come before it chronologically. It’s really just a preamble for NWH to me.

So take your pick. Loki, Black Widow, Shang-Chi, etc. all function much better as a start to Phase 4.

Thoughts?

I personally don't like Phases and think that they way they are broken down is a result of how everything got made rather than having each one end on a cinematic climax. Ant-Man was in development long before Avengers, but Edgar Wright continued to want things his way and it got to a point where they not only missed the potential release of the film before Age of Ultron, but then had to explain to fans that you don't need Pym for Ultron. So I think Ant-Man ending Phase 2 is simply because of the Edgar Wright situation, and if he had gotten the film together earlier, Ultron would have been the end of Phase 2.

For Phase 3? I'm definitely in the minority on this one, but FFH is not the end of Phase 3 to me, especially after BW being a prequel AND literally every single chapter of Phase 4 save for NWH taking place between Endgame and FFH. I believe that Feige was being interviewed by someone and the interviewer wasn't speaking English and his response was something like 'its the last film of Phase 3' or something. Most people think FFH is an epilogue to Endgame and use that as a reason for it being Phase 3, but honestly, isn't WV an epilogue, or FATWS, or even Loki? They all are, so that logic makes no sense to me.

I think each Phase was supposed to end with Avengers, and from what we know of the Phase 4 reveal panels, Thor 4 is the end of Phase 4 currently.

 

[Pro Bot]

Phases are pretty pointless to me, to be honest.

 

[thecomicperson]

I'm so satisfied that AoS is 100% confirmed as canon, after 3 years of searching references, we have done it

 

[Dallas Kinard]

More recently I agree that FFH is part of Phase 4. It just makes way more sense that Eternals launches Phase 4 and ends with Thor 4.

 

[ShulzieJ]

Just watched the last season of Disenchantment. Plan to start Hello my Twenties (a K-Drama). The only thing that I don't like about Netflix is their copyright law policy. I mean, you pay the same amount of money for a plan in different countries, but you get a different number of movies. This is unfair, and even though I know that this is not exactly because of them, I still think they can do something about it. Also, their collection of old movies or series is rather poor compared to some IPTV services like this top iptv. I don't know why it is easier for them to deal with copyright holders than for Netflix.

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

Okay, so I just watched Multiverse of Madness and I really need to vent about something that aggravated me without derailing the timeline discussion so...

Spoiler: Multiverse of Madness spoilers

Okay, Ive always been a bit lukewarm around post credit scenes, but I feel like MoM was the first time a post credit scene actually was detrimental to my enjoyment of the movie.
the last shot of the main movie is this fantastic Rami-esque shot of Dr strange screaming in pain as his third eye opens, its shocking and is a huge "oh shit" moment as the movie has already told us that this is a sign of corruption from using dark magic, it opens so many possibilities for Strange's character moving forward.
Then we have the mid-credit scene and..... Dr Strange is fine, he bumps into Clea for what is a prime example of a "its me, Blorko" scene and then shows off his third eye like its an edgy tattoo. Suddenly all the tension from that final shot is just... gone

 

[Craig]

Hmm, I haven’t seen it yet but…

Spoiler

I don’t think a post-credit scene has pulled something like that yet, but I’ve had similar complaints with “sequels”.

Just off the top of my head: Thor 2 ends with the reveal of Loki secretly usurps Odin, followed by years of not checking in on Asgard. Boom, first act of Thor 3 Loki is just fucking off and watching goofy plays.

Thor 3 ends with the Asgardian people being saved and a happy goofy tone. Boom, first 5 minutes of IW they’re all dead.

Iron Man 3 ends with him blowing up all his suits and retiring. Boom, first scene of Ultron has him suited up. (If you look into it, this is explained by him having to come out of retirement after the events of Winter Solider. But still, didn’t really flow well.

 

[Pro Bot]

Seen the film.

Spoiler

I wonder if Marvel Television's Darkhold is one of the seperate copies.

The only way that Xavier could be the same version from the 1990s X-Men is if he universe hopped and Wanda only snapped his neck in his mind, which knocked him out. I still don't think it's the same Xavier, I think that this is just the Illuminati's Xavier meant to tease the upcoming show, along with our future MCU Xavier, whoever that might be. Seeing how Patrick Stewart was Earth-838's Xavier, imagine if Patrick Stewart played present day Xavier in the MCU but he was an older version of Harry Lloyd's version seen on Legion? Show literally ended on a rebooted universe so there's no baggage. That's just a dream though, nothing more. The scene in Wanda's mind seemed exactly like the Astral Plane in Legion I will say.


"Just because someone stumbles, loses their way, it doesn't mean they're lost forever. Sometimes we all need a little help." - Charles Xavier (Earth-10005)
"Just because someone loses their way doesn't mean they're lost forever." - Charles Xavier (Earth-838)
Nice reference to Days of Future Past.

Palmer said something like "we designated your reality Earth-616". It honestly sounds like they just arbitrarily named the MCU reality Earth-616, which is... exactly like Smallville, lol. Anyway, the fact that the Appendix designated the What If timelines means I win on that front, no doubt. I still stand by my "MCU Multiverse inside Marvel Multiverse" statement even if Earth-838 just had their own naming system.

For the smartest man alive, this Reed Richards variant was pretty dumb. Firstly, he decides to tell Wanda that his children's mother is alive rather than playing on her heart strings and lying. Secondly, he tells a reality warper how they plan to kill her. Surely he should know better since he has a son who can do the same thing, and if the comics are any indication, on even more ridiculous levels. Black Bolt could have ended it but Reed screwed him over. Also don't know why Black Bolt panicked and screamed. He manages to be quiet except when he needs to most. It does make sense, though. The Illuminati are supposed to be arrogant like that. John Krasinski has got to be our main Reed Richards too, surely.

Anson Mount is great as Black Bolt as he always was. I hope they show the return of the Inhuman Royal Family in the MCU. Inhumans S2, A Disney+ Original, hahaha joking. It was awesome that they acknowledged the show. The non-canoners look even more ridiculous seeing as how they acknowledged the most critically panned show.

Well, there's certainly two Captain Carters now. By that I mean... two pieces of her, hehe.

 

[Pro Bot]

Patrick Stewart on Playing Charles Xavier Again in ‘Doctor Strange 2’: ‘I Was a Little Unsure at First’

Ever since Patrick Stewart’s singular voice rang out in the Super Bowl trailer for Marvel Studios’ “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness,” fans have eagerly awaited t…

variety.com

You’ve been clear that when “Star Trek: Picard” ends with Season 3, you are also finished with that role. But is there a chance you’d play Xavier again?
"Charles Xavier? Yeah. There may be. You know, the whole X-Men comic series is so huge, so vast, there might be an opportunity in which he comes back. We’ll see."

He might be our MCU Xavier as I speculated. They'll probably have to kill him off or have a mutant de-age him in-universe or something to make it work long-term, because Stewart isn't getting any younger. I'm agreeable to him dying in the MCU and transferring his mind (like in The Last Stand) into a younger body (who will be our MCU Xavier afterwards). Granted, this is all just might because speculation is fun.

As for Magneto, since they shouldn't change his origin, I suppose he has a passive secondary mutation to age slower.
I mean this isn't really a spoiler since we all know that he's in it from the very first trailer.

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

I do think that they only have one or maybe two more appearances out of Patrick Stewart, the idea of him transferring his consciousness into a new actor is an interesting way to keep a part of his legacy alive (he really was perfect in the role, although James MacAvoy was good too)


As for Magneto, I have to say I preferred Michael Fassbender in that role, It was the perfect blend of "this guy has good intentions" and "oh crap, Im scared of what this guy is capable of". That scene in First Class where he raids the mansion was one of my favourite parts of the whole franchise.


What they do with Magneto moving forward is tricky, because of the reasons you stated. They could reboot him to have his backstory take place in a more recent genocide, but that risks being controversial for a number of reasons, and also robs the MCU of one of their most prominent Jewish characters. I kind of like the idea of his aging being slowed down, while Xavier ages normally, and so you have all these flashbacks with Charles at different ages while Magneto stays the same. IT would act as a nice contrast to how Magneto's anger about how he was treated during the holocaust never subsides and how he resents how others appear to "move on". But I guess we will see what Marvel Studios will do with it