I mean She-Hulk used the Netflix theme similar to how they've done with other projects and the X-Men 97 theme. I think they're a nod rather than confirmation. If they were, there are much better ways Marvel themselves can confirm it. We'll see what happens with Born Again, but like I said I expect they use the time jump since DDS3 to keep vague and continue to have people believe what they want.
Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline (Part 2)
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selfishmisery
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Those cufflinks are absolutely more unique than a simple recasting. Its part of Kingpin's very dark origin of his abusive father and a reminder to not be cruel like he was. They were subtly acknowledging that.
Which is why this drastic change is baffling, unless Disney sees no ethnic boundaries between these two actresses for some reason, but the fact we are even discussing this opens up a hot button can of worms.... I will say though, take this with upmost subjectivity, the actresses look much more similar to each other than Terrance Howard did with Don Cheadle. The War Machine actors look NOTHING alike.
My thought is last we heard the Marvel Television shows were canon and there's been no offical word they aren't despite some inconsistencies and design changes. My own personal opinion is they are different branches now due to this change. But I think this place should keep them in the same timeline until something offical happens.
I don't think they'll ever come out and say they aren't canon. But at the same time, I don't think Marvel Studios cares if their own projects contradict them and show inconsistencies.
selfishmisery
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Random thought: But Matt Murdoch in DD's series finale said if Kingpin ever hunted him, Foggy or Karen again he would go after Vanessa.
There is no Foggy or Karen and Vanessa looks different...reaching but they could make that work in the aforementioned context - Kingpin, now out of prison, gets plastic surgery for Vanessa so Matt won't recognize her (yes, there is race changing plastic surgery and it has happened with other characters in the comics) and keeping her name private. Kingpin keeps his promise and thus Foggy and Karen go into hiding for their own protection, while Matt is by himself once again.
There is no Foggy or Karen and Vanessa looks different...reaching but they could make that work in the aforementioned context - Kingpin, now out of prison, gets plastic surgery for Vanessa so Matt won't recognize her (yes, there is race changing plastic surgery and it has happened with other characters in the comics) and keeping her name private. Kingpin keeps his promise and thus Foggy and Karen go into hiding for their own protection, while Matt is by himself once again.
I honestly feel like that's a pretty convoluted and far-fetched explanation. They've said this is a season 1, not a season 4. I'm not saying the Netflix stuff isn't canon, but I doubt it plays a role in the plot as much as this is suggesting.
selfishmisery
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It's not that 'convoluted' of an idea compared to some of the stuff in Agents of SHIELD or expanded MCU lore, tbh. lol
If this was S04 of the Marvel Television run series and the recast happened and Foogy and Karen were missing I'd say it's possible. A little out there maybe but possible enough it could work as an explanation.
However since it's Marvel Studios I'd say your theory takes into account them actually caring more about the continuity of the shows than they actually do.
True, but I struggle with some of that too lol.
selfishmisery
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Remember when the Hawkeye writers said they were extra careful to not contradict the Netflix shows?
I am not asking you to agree with but c'mon it's not as far fetched as you two are making it. Marvel is smart. I think they will find a way to get around much of the 'required' watching and keep it self contained enough for new viewers.
Just wait and see I guess.
selfishmisery
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Now that is 10000% convoluted and awful.
It was a joke.
selfishmisery
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Obviously. It wasn't funny and seemed like a knock at me.
It wasn't meant to be taken in a derogatory way and wasn't specifically geared towards you. Sorry if you saw it that way.
selfishmisery
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Anyways I have made my point. Not gonna continue in an discussion/argument over equal sided speculation.
Don't take my words personal btw.
Don't take my words personal btw.
I think you're right about the required viewing bit. They definitely are using the old stuff as a background, the cufflinks show this, however I think they'll also avoid making anything a direct continuation or otherwise offical so that A. It's not "required" viewing as you said while still rewarding to those that watched it and B. Allows them to make changes such as Vanessa's casting or other liberties they may need going forward.
Honestly it is kinda the perfect place for them to put these shows and I understand why they did it. Freedom go change what they want to without needing to start these characters from scratch because they were done well and generally loved by fans. Unfortunately from a timeline and in-universe perspective the best answer is most of Marvel Television happens in a branched timeline due to the changes they make as small or noticable as they are. But that's just my opinion on the matter, like I said I think this timeline should keep the Marvel Television shows in it as they are/were a part of it officially
But like you said, just wait and see I guess. That's all we can do until Born Again (or perhaps Echo) give us a deeper look and their corner of the MCU
Pro Bot
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I don't think it'll matter that much. Just look at it as any other recast and imagine she just happens to look like this now. Apart from the race change, they look similar enough in my opinion.
Also:
Let's say Matt, Frank, Fisk, Jessica and Foggy are the same cast but Venessa is different in her tiny role in the show, then does it really matter?
Also:
Let's say Matt, Frank, Fisk, Jessica and Foggy are the same cast but Venessa is different in her tiny role in the show, then does it really matter?
I will say they do look similar for sure . And I'm happy they didn't recast the others cause they're awesome in their roles 100%. And I definitely don't think her recast will matter cause yeah it's happened in the MCU before and sometimes recasts happen and you gotta move on. However personally, I can't ignore a race change of a character as absolutely nothing. Had they recast another Israeli actress (I believe she was Israeli?), then I'd still be on "it's still MCU canon" team despite a recast. But this is a more significant change to me than something like the Darkhold not looking the same, to me it's enough to say somewhere the MCU branched.
But one thing I can't stress enough is exactly what Pro Bot said "does it really matter?" They are clearly respecting the old Netflix shows, they're bringing back actors where they can, even little details like the Cufflinks aren't being ignored as Slefishmissery pointed out they stated they are trying not to contradict the old series outright. There's enough to say it's still in the MCU for sure, there's enough to says it's in a branched timeline. Anyway we look at it, thanks to the multiverse, it's canon, the shows happened and they will still matter same timeline or not. And I think we can all agree that we can't wait to see these characters return, however slightly they may be altered to fit the larger MCU now.
Pro Bot
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I think saying it's a multiverse situation is a bit silly, especially since she apparently has a smaller role in the show anyway. They're much more similar than Norton and Mark, and I don't really care about the race change... at all. It honestly makes no difference. Back in '95, Two-Face literally changed into a white man. Hell, in the 60s Bat-Verse, Catwoman is always changing faces, and her race goes from white to black and back again. It's happened before and this is no where near as bad as those cases. It's even better than recasts of the same race in the MCU, lol.
No need to overcomplicate things. They see the events of Netflix as canon, they just recast one character. That's all that matters for me.
No need to overcomplicate things. They see the events of Netflix as canon, they just recast one character. That's all that matters for me.
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