Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline (Part 2)

[woodlark_289]

I think at this point it's best to see it as 2 options.

a). The movie begins in May 2008 and it takes Ivan until November 2009 to complete his armor.
b). Vanko and his father aren't watching "I Am Iron Man" live and the movie begins in November 2009. Given his father's hatred for Howard and most likely Tony, it makes sense he would have recorded the speech and hate watch it. Ivan telling him to turn it off could be because it's a continuing thing his father does.

We see a number of news articles and magazine covers that show time passage in the opening montage. Whether it's the montage itself or they were already there pre-montage, I think it's easy to see how Ivan can't finish his armor in May 2008.

I think it's a good compromise with all the evidence. The main contradiction to this is Fury's "last year" comment when referring to the events of Thor. 2010 fits with Natasha's "over a year without an incident " line with Bruce, fits with the 2010 Stark Expo promo, fits with the Monaco Grand Prix falling in May 2010, brings Iron Man 2 around its release date, Thor around its filming date, and The Incredible Hulk closer to its release date, and it allows more time for Tony to turn the Metlife Building into Stark Tower.

One issue I have though is how the week in What-If is shown. The nexus event in What-If shouldn't affect that portion of the timeline and it should match with the MCU. That episode begins with Tony at Randy's Donuts on a Monday which would mean it's May 31st, 2010. This is meant to be the day after his birthday party with his birthday falling on May 29th. I guess we could assume that while his birthday was the 29th, he didn't have the party until the 30th, but 2011 would have fit these days perfectly.

i agree with everything you've said here, the way i'm reconciling the what if episode is that in episode 1 red skull finds the space stone following Peggy's procedure while in the main timeline he finds it in March 1942, over a year before Steve's experiment, meaning we can't really use the what if episodes as any kind of template unfortunately

 

[JohnTitor]

On Marvel's page it says:

"...will be the go-to resource for fans who are hoping to connect the dots and truly understand the complex web of interconnections between the different Marvel movies and television series."

Do they mean pre-disney+ series or not? Because i believe the will cover phases 1-4 and there's actually not much connections between movies and those shows. Basically WandaVision heavily connects with previous movies and DS: MoM later. The other shows are just seeds for next projects.
I know that there is shown an example page about Age of Iltron and we don't see anything about AoS or Netflix shows that take place in 2015 too. But WHAT IF pre-Disney+ shows have their own sections. Remember that according to my calculations there's still over 100 pages to fill with something.

 

[Rman]

On Marvel's page it says:

"...will be the go-to resource for fans who are hoping to connect the dots and truly understand the complex web of interconnections between the different Marvel movies and television series."

Do they mean pre-disney+ series or not? Because i believe the will cover phases 1-4 and there's actually not much connections between movies and those shows. Basically WandaVision heavily connects with previous movies and DS: MoM later. The other shows are just seeds for next projects.
I know that there is shown an example page about Age of Iltron and we don't see anything about AoS or Netflix shows that take place in 2015 too. But WHAT IF pre-Disney+ shows have their own sections. Remember that according to my calculations there's still over 100 pages to fill with something.

I think it's best to not get your hopes up. So far there's nothing really showing that they plan on referencing the Marvel Television shows. The Disney + shows for the most part have had some form of interconnectedness, some we still haven't seen yet, and Feige has even used that quote before when specifically speaking about the Marvel Studios shows and their relation to their films. I believe it's wishful thinking at this point to expect anything Marvel Television-related. At most there may be vague references regarding Daredevil like Matt defeating Fisk or Fisk escaping prison.

 

[selfishmisery]

Can any time travel nerds explain this to me one more time:

Grandfather paradoxes don't create branched timelines and will erase what came before as a result of the change (i.e. Runaways' series finale)
BUT a branched timeline is created by... what? If not a grandfather paradox and obviously not a bootstrap one.

 

[selfishmisery]

I guess it depends on the method of time travel?

Also, release dates for Disney+ Marvel shows got shuffled.

 

[Rman]

Can any time travel nerds explain this to me one more time:

Grandfather paradoxes don't create branched timelines and will erase what came before as a result of the change (i.e. Runaways' series finale)
BUT a branched timeline is created by... what? If not a grandfather paradox and obviously not a bootstrap one.

I think it's simply Marvel Studios and Marvel Television not lining up on their rules. Whether you see the shows as canon or not, it's clear that the division between the two is a factor.

 

[selfishmisery]

I think it's simply Marvel Studios and Marvel Television not lining up on their rules. Whether you see the shows as canon or not, it's clear that the division between the two is a factor.

The branching and grandfather paradox erasure co-existing has been the case in the comics, animation and as well as other adjacent Marvel multiverse properties like Spider-Verse.

This wasn't a discussion about MCU canon. Just a time travel logic question.

 

[Starvel]

I think it's simply Marvel Studios and Marvel Television not lining up on their rules. Whether you see the shows as canon or not, it's clear that the division between the two is a factor.

Yeah this is it pretty much. Marvel Studios and Runaways were developing and releasing time travel stories at similar times without talking to each other about their rules. The method would make no difference, the timeline doesn't care how to move about it it'll work just the same. If there was a way to time travel without the cause of branches the TVA would use it. This comes down to Real-World issues creating an canonicity error, just something you gotta shrug off.

 

[selfishmisery]

Yeah this is it pretty much. Marvel Studios and Runaways were developing and releasing time travel stories at similar times without talking to each other about their rules. The method would make no difference, the timeline doesn't care how to move about it it'll work just the same. If there was a way to time travel without the cause of branches the TVA would use it. This comes down to Real-World issues creating an canonicity error, just something you gotta shrug off.

I'll mention it again:

The branching and grandfather paradox erasure co-existing has been the case in the comics, animation and as well as other adjacent Marvel multiverse properties like Spider-Verse.

This wasn't a discussion about MCU canon. Just a time travel logic question.

 

[Starvel]

I'll mention it again:

Again it comes down to a thousand different writers using different methods with no clear rules on time travel, how it works and how it affects a timeline. MS has their method, different shows and comics and writers have theirs. MS just clearly defined their rules without extending that to MT.

 

[Rman]

Again it comes down to a thousand different writers using different methods with no clear rules on time travel, how it works and how it affects a timeline. MS has their method, different shows and comics and writers have theirs. MS just clearly defined their rules without extending that to MT.

I'm sure the Marvel Studios projects alone aren't going to line up 100%. Time travel can get convoluted, especially when you have a number of different creatives working within the same universe.

 

[selfishmisery]

Again it comes down to a thousand different writers using different methods with no clear rules on time travel, how it works and how it affects a timeline. MS has their method, different shows and comics and writers have theirs. MS just clearly defined their rules without extending that to MT

See, this is what kinda ruins comic book stuff for me in some ways.
Unseen "destiny" essentially allows some timelines to co-exist and at other times not to with the same method.

My personal head canon has been the methods differentiate the effect rather than the writer flubbing lore for the sake of story.
They're allowed to tell that story, it's just when getting so deep into the mythology as we have with Marvel/DC - the more you kinda have to fill in the blanks yourself, I feel like.

That's why "No Prizes" existed in the Stan Lee letter pages. ha

 

[Rman]

See, this is what kinda ruins comic book stuff for me in some ways.
Unseen "destiny" essentially allows some timelines to co-exist and at other times not to with the same method.

My personal head canon has been the methods differentiate the effect rather than the writer flubbing lore for the sake of story.
They're allowed to tell that story, it's just when getting so deep into the mythology as we have with Marvel/DC - the more you kinda have to fill in the blanks yourself, I feel like.

That's why "No Prizes" existed in the Stan Lee letter pages. ha

I think that's any medium. Especially with brands as expansive as Marvel & DC. It's hard to keep precise rules over time with a huge number of different creatives who all have their own ideas for how stuff works. It's something I've learned you just have to accept with fiction.

 

[Starvel]

See, this is what kinda ruins comic book stuff for me in some ways.
Unseen "destiny" essentially allows some timelines to co-exist and at other times not to with the same method.

My personal head canon has been the methods differentiate the effect rather than the writer flubbing lore for the sake of story.
They're allowed to tell that story, it's just when getting so deep into the mythology as we have with Marvel/DC - the more you kinda have to fill in the blanks yourself, I feel like.

That's why "No Prizes" existed in the Stan Lee letter pages. ha

It's true, **** like this leaves blanks, if you got your own reasoning to help fill them in then use it. Whatever helps right lol

 

[selfishmisery]

I think that's any medium. Especially with brands as expansive as Marvel & DC. It's hard to keep precise rules over time with a huge number of different creatives who all have their own ideas for how stuff works. It's something I've learned you just have to accept with fiction.

I guess it's more or less just the expectation for fans to have this level of knowledge of canon/lore from the MCU, hence why we're getting the timeline book, but it seems like we've already reached the point where their own logic starts to break down into "Magical Possibility".

 

[selfishmisery]

Anyways, that's all I really needed to say in regards to branching vs grandfather paradox problems.

In other news:
https://www.superherohype.com/tv/54...rkhold-diaries-and-x-men-97-delayed-at-disney
Agatha's show renamed again too.

 

[Rman]

Anyways, that's all I really needed to say in regards to branching vs grandfather paradox problems.

In other news:
https://www.superherohype.com/tv/54...rkhold-diaries-and-x-men-97-delayed-at-disney
Agatha's show renamed again too.

Not really surprised about the delays. I expect some of the movies are going to follow suit.

 

[Starvel]

Not really surprised about the delays. I expect some of the movies are going to follow suit.

Theres a Disney Showcase about their theatrical slate in a couple weeks if I'm not mistaken. We'll likely get some rescheduling there.

As for the new Agatha title it seems this is incorrect. Various logos for the series were leaked a while back each seemingly being an episode of the series parodying other films and shows. The Darkhold Diaries logo was in the style Princess Diaries, another was Agnes of Westview in the style of Mare of Easttown. Its possible that the series has been renamed Darkhold Diaries but I'm fairly certain this was a mixup

 

[Slyonic]

I'll be receiving Look out for the little guy today. Very excited to see it it has any interesting timeline indications!

 

[selfishmisery]

I'll be receiving Look out for the little guy today. Very excited to see it it has any interesting timeline indications!

Any luck?

 

[Slyonic]

Any luck?

I'm at 1/3 of the book. It's at least after Hawkeye, since Scott mentions Clint is training his protege.
I'll update if I find anything more concrete!

 

[Slyonic]

I just finished the book. The Hawkeye mention is really the only that places it somewhere (Sam is mentioned as being the current Captain America, but Hawkeye is more recent).
There's a reference to Bruce staying in Mexico with Tony during the blip, so out of universe it 'requires' the reader to be familiar with that plot point from She-Hulk.

Unfortunately, there's no other timeline indications or things we didn't know. The only thing that comes close (at least for me) is that Scott stayed with Cassie for a couple of days after he returned from the Quantum Realm at the beginning of Endgame, instead of going straight to the Avengers Compound.
Also no references to the pre-D+ tv shows.

I liked The Wakanda Files better as a in-universe book. At least that one moved the story a bit forward. This one is honestly just a summary of the events Ant-man's been in with some life lessons sprinkled through. There's only a litte more information about what conversations happened off screen, but none of them are relevant to the future of the MCU.

There's also some pretty stupid mistakes, like Scott describing the Gauntlet during the Battle of Earth being golden (which should of course be red) and 'snap' and 'blip' being used like they're one and the same (for example, Thanos' Snap is referred to as the snap, but the 5 year period is called "post-blip" multiple times")

If there's any questions, let me know!

 

[selfishmisery]

I just finished the book. The Hawkeye mention is really the only that places it somewhere (Sam is mentioned as being the current Captain America, but Hawkeye is more recent).
There's a reference to Bruce staying in Mexico with Tony during the blip, so out of universe it 'requires' the reader to be familiar with that plot point from She-Hulk.

Unfortunately, there's no other timeline indications or things we didn't know. The only thing that comes close (at least for me) is that Scott stayed with Cassie for a couple of days after he returned from the Quantum Realm at the beginning of Endgame, instead of going straight to the Avengers Compound.
Also no references to the pre-D+ tv shows.

I liked The Wakanda Files better as a in-universe book. At least that one moved the story a bit forward. This one is honestly just a summary of the events Ant-man's been in with some life lessons sprinkled through. There's only a litte more information about what conversations happened off screen, but none of them are relevant to the future of the MCU.

There's also some pretty stupid mistakes, like Scott describing the Gauntlet during the Battle of Earth being golden (which should of course be red) and 'snap' and 'blip' being used like they're one and the same (for example, Thanos' Snap is referred to as the snap, but the 5 year period is called "post-blip" multiple times")

If there's any questions, let me know!

So basically even they're unsure of where to objectively place Ant-Man 3 or they want it intentionally vague until they have a clear timeline set out by the time Secret Wars comes out.

 

[selfishmisery]

Imagine if "The Mutants" film is a sequel to "The Eternals"; since the Celestial created the X-gene in the comics.

And what use are the Eternals now that Tiamut is dead?

 

[fuzzyfoot]

See, this is what kinda ruins comic book stuff for me in some ways.
Unseen "destiny" essentially allows some timelines to co-exist and at other times not to with the same method.

My personal head canon has been the methods differentiate the effect rather than the writer flubbing lore for the sake of story.
They're allowed to tell that story, it's just when getting so deep into the mythology as we have with Marvel/DC - the more you kinda have to fill in the blanks yourself, I feel like.

That's why "No Prizes" existed in the Stan Lee letter pages. ha

If you want this summed up in a single word answer here it goes...Kang.

In universe, HWR stitched the timeline together so that everything would end up the way it is until his death allowing all sorts of shenanigans to occur (which will be compounded by Loki season 2 now considering its a time hopping show that takes place AFTER his death). So technically in universe all versions of time travel logic work because they have to as that is how HWR stitched it all together up to that point.

To me that ultimately solved the Steve in Endgame issue that so many people had too because regardless of how you see the time travel logic working, it was always ALL meant to be because of HWR.

Outside, yes writers, different offices, etc, everything everyone else mentioned. Deke in season 7 of AOS explained time travel in some sort of small change vs big change metaphor (forgive me its been...since the last season aired that I've watched AOS), like a single stick won't change the river but a bunch of sticks will cause a dam. So I guess given what we know, it ultimately comes down to a case by case basis of what can be considered grounds for erasure vs branching. Like stealing the stones is apparently grounds for branching even though it should technically be erasure given the magnitude of the thefts.

 

[fuzzyfoot]

Theres a Disney Showcase about their theatrical slate in a couple weeks if I'm not mistaken. We'll likely get some rescheduling there.

As for the new Agatha title it seems this is incorrect. Various logos for the series were leaked a while back each seemingly being an episode of the series parodying other films and shows. The Darkhold Diaries logo was in the style Princess Diaries, another was Agnes of Westview in the style of Mare of Easttown. Its possible that the series has been renamed Darkhold Diaries but I'm fairly certain this was a mixup

I'm a little skeptical of us getting a reschedule. I went over the showcase schedule a couple of times and the only time it would even happen is a 15 minute 'upcoming movies/shows' segment Iger is doing. The only hour+ long segment with Marvel's name on it is a comic segment with the EIC Cebulski hosting it.

 

[selfishmisery]

If you want this summed up in a single word answer here it goes...Kang.

In universe, HWR stitched the timeline together so that everything would end up the way it is until his death allowing all sorts of shenanigans to occur (which will be compounded by Loki season 2 now considering its a time hopping show that takes place AFTER his death). So technically in universe all versions of time travel logic work because they have to as that is how HWR stitched it all together up to that point.

To me that ultimately solved the Steve in Endgame issue that so many people had too because regardless of how you see the time travel logic working, it was always ALL meant to be because of HWR.

Outside, yes writers, different offices, etc, everything everyone else mentioned. Deke in season 7 of AOS explained time travel in some sort of small change vs big change metaphor (forgive me its been...since the last season aired that I've watched AOS), like a single stick won't change the river but a bunch of sticks will cause a dam. So I guess given what we know, it ultimately comes down to a case by case basis of what can be considered grounds for erasure vs branching. Like stealing the stones is apparently grounds for branching even though it should technically be erasure given the magnitude of the thefts.

By the time Nathaniel Malick started giving Hydra agents Inhuman powers and Daisy's mom died, that pretty much cemented the timeline change as a new universe. (EDIT: And Mac's parents being killed/replaced by the Chronicroms too, I forgot that.)

I guess like with 2014 Thanos, the TVA just allowed that to happen for the sake of SHIELD saving the main universe?

I think the difference with HWR is that he'll prune a timeline before it fully develops; essentially reversing it some before it creates dopplegangers.
Kang and the other Kangs will just destroy a whole alternate timeline that's already cemented itself. Wasp essentially said that in Ant-Man 3, Kang destroys whole universes.

 

[Lebnyx]

Updated with Season 2 of I Am Groot.

 

[FruityWho50]

Updated with Season 2 of I Am Groot.

Does Daredevil S01 and I am Groot S01 or S02 overlap because I always thought Daredevil happened during winter 2014 (Nov/Dec 2014) (2 years since avengers and someone says early on in the season that it's cold) but I am groot has to happen after GotG 2 which is in October 2014
So is there anyway we can narrow down a more concrete answer (I don't trust most of what the guys on the MCU wiki anymore)

 

[selfishmisery]

Does Daredevil S01 and I am Groot S01 or S02 overlap because I always thought Daredevil happened during winter 2014 (Nov/Dec 2014) (2 years since avengers and someone says early on in the season that it's cold) but I am groot has to happen after GotG 2 which is in October 2014
So is there anyway we can narrow down a more concrete answer (I don't trust most of what the guys on the MCU wiki anymore)

Considering that I Am Groot is so completely standalone, I think setting it entirely before Daredevil S01 is reasonable.