The Overlord
Well-Known Member
Here's Marvel's list of the top ten villains in the UU:
http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.5215.Take_10~colon~_Ultimate_Villains
http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.5215.Take_10~colon~_Ultimate_Villains
Marvel's Top ten Ultimate Villain List
- Thread starter The Overlord
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Goodwill
Well-Known Member
Kraven made the list. :roll:
And Magneto, supposedly the big bad of Ultimatum is 3. And Kingpin is ahead of Doom.
This is a pretty accurate list.
Not.
And Magneto, supposedly the big bad of Ultimatum is 3. And Kingpin is ahead of Doom.
This is a pretty accurate list.
Not.
Langsta
Well-Known Member
These are my favorite villains, whom I also think are the best villains, in the Ultimate universe (in no particular order):
Dr. Octopus
Doom
Green Goblin
Colonel (and the other Liberators if you want to be more general)
Loki
Black Widow
Galactus (I don't know if anyone else did, but I liked Ultimate Galactus, the way they made him this huge hive-mind of drones that just goes and eradicates planets)
Kleiser (and the Chitauri in general)
Hulk (not really a full-blown supervillain....but I'm talking about the "Hulk Does Manhattan" incident)
Marvel's list kind of sucks; the Brotherhood hasn't really done much in 1610, and Kingpin just isn't that interesting. The image they used for Kingpin isn't even from the Ultimate universe I don't think. Venom looks cool, but his origin is lame. Kraven is more interesting in 1610 than 616, but I don't think he should make the top 10.
Dr. Octopus
Doom
Green Goblin
Colonel (and the other Liberators if you want to be more general)
Loki
Black Widow
Galactus (I don't know if anyone else did, but I liked Ultimate Galactus, the way they made him this huge hive-mind of drones that just goes and eradicates planets)
Kleiser (and the Chitauri in general)
Hulk (not really a full-blown supervillain....but I'm talking about the "Hulk Does Manhattan" incident)
Marvel's list kind of sucks; the Brotherhood hasn't really done much in 1610, and Kingpin just isn't that interesting. The image they used for Kingpin isn't even from the Ultimate universe I don't think. Venom looks cool, but his origin is lame. Kraven is more interesting in 1610 than 616, but I don't think he should make the top 10.
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The Overlord
Well-Known Member
I disagree that Ultimate kraven is more interesting than 616 Kraven, 616 Kraven got a crowning moment of awesome in the fact that he buried Spidey alive and shot himself, has ultimate Kraven done anything awesome ever?
Venom I will agree with, because I think he is better then 616 Venom simply because he is less convoluted.
Frankly i think ultimate doom and Magneto kinda suck, simply because their 616 counterparts are far more interesting. 616 Kingpin and Ultimate kingpin are exactly the same, so they are equal.
The problem with ultimate villains is almost none of are superior or even equal to their 616 counterparts, most are down right inferior.
The only villains that I think were improved were ultimate Venom, Mojo and maybe Mr. Sinister, I think at least Ultimate Sinister is equal or better then 616 Sinister.
All others are mostly inferior, often turned into jokes, throwaway characters or lost most the character motives that made them interesting in the first place. I mean do we know anything about Ultimate Electro besides the fact he is greedy and stupid? Sure you can argue that ultimate Electro has a better costume (though I kinda like 616 Electro's costume, its so goofy its fun) but really personality wise which one is better? 616 all the way.
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ourchair
Well-Known Member
Ultimate Doom was awesome before Mark Millar touched him.
Ultimate Green Goblin was creepy awesomenss before he became a repetitive mess.
Nihil, aka Ultimate Annihilus is great and will stay great because he's dead as can be iin the Ulti-verse.
Mojo Adams, aka Ultimate Mojo.
Rhona Burchill, the Ultimate Mad Thinker was genius before the X4 crossover.
The Ultimate Psycho-Man from Carey's Silver Surfer arc, will probably be the greatest thing he'll ever write for UFF.
Ultimate Green Goblin was creepy awesomenss before he became a repetitive mess.
Nihil, aka Ultimate Annihilus is great and will stay great because he's dead as can be iin the Ulti-verse.
Mojo Adams, aka Ultimate Mojo.
Rhona Burchill, the Ultimate Mad Thinker was genius before the X4 crossover.
The Ultimate Psycho-Man from Carey's Silver Surfer arc, will probably be the greatest thing he'll ever write for UFF.
Langsta
Well-Known Member
I forgot about her! Yeah, she was cool before that stupid thing where they said that she took her brother's brain matter and put it in hers (thus creating Ultimate Andy). That doesn't make you super-smart, that makes you super-disfigured.
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ourchair
Well-Known Member
Actually, that was in her first appearance. I thought that was awesome... and ****ing whack.
I just don't like how Carey, her creator, used her in X4. She seemed a little Mary Sue to me, in the sense that she felt overpowered there.
Also, the grafting of her brother's brain matter isn't itself what is purported to make her smarter. Rather, she developed a 'thinking accelerant' that allows her to think faster, but she needed more brain matter to properly handle the drug.
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
Some of those are good choices, ultimate mad thinker may indeed be an improvement over 616 thinker, mainly because he is hardly used to his potential.
I would say Nihil would have better before Annihilation occurred, but that's hardly fair, considering Annihilation happened after Nihil was introduced, but Nihil seemed a bit dumb, I mean he blew his own head when Reed put that blaster in his mouth.
I will take your word on Psychoman, haven't read that arc. I also agree with Mojo.
The only one I disagree with is Doom, I thought his first arc was kinda lame, he didn't seem to have the same level of magnificent Bastard-ness that 616 Doom, he seemed kinda like a bum and the goat feet were kinda stupid.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
I actually he thought Ultimate Doom encapsulated forty years worth of bastard-eriness into a single character very well, but maybe I read more into it as a hardcore Fantastic Four fan.
I mean the entirety of his debut arc is all about his psychologically unhinged sense of self-superiority.
616 Doom is driven by a petty sense of self-superiority. He is so driven to prove that he is Reed's better that he constantly endangers any potential chances at functional relationships and governs a country solely for his own vanity.
Ultimate Doom is taught that he is the direct descendant of great people, but over and over he gets ***** smacked by his Daddy about how he never seems to prove to be worthy of it.
Can you imagine how ****ed up that is?
Being told that greatness is in your nature, but being so scorned by your dad because you haven't learned to nurture greatness?
And then after your dad gets exasperated with you, he just dumps you in boarding school and leaves you be, just so he doesn't have to deal with the shame that you are.
So when the accident happens, Doom is so unhinged that he is convinced his powers are the blessing, the greatness he deserved to have even if it means nobody will ever want to snog with his ugly face.
People think the essence of any Doom is about his 'regal sense of honor' and the 'grandiosity of his scheming.' Well it's not. Doom has always been a patently insecure jerk, driven mad by his desperate need to prove his self-worth.
Meet the new Doom, same as the old Doom.
Gemini
Well-Known Member
After the clone saga, Dr. Octopus should be banned from any and all Top Ultimate Villains list
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
How noble doom is debatable and often depends on the writer, but one cannot deny that 616 Doom is a magnificent bastard. You can be a total prick and still be magnificent bastard, but you have to be magnificent. Lex Luthor is a total jerk, but he is definitely a magnificent bastard.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard
In his first arc, Ultimate Doom was not magnificent, he was bum, he had hippie minions and was using PS controllers to make devices. he was living in a hippie compound in Norway instead of a castle. That's not very epic. Millar turned Ultimate doom into a magnificent bastard by making him a clone of the 616 Doom. even 616 Doom's origin is far more epic, then Ultimate doom's which seems like a standard, "daddy beat me and now I'm bad" kinda thing.
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Well that's a key difference between the two, the UU is less epic (or was) and more real. Infact you could have made a great story about Doom's rise from Hippie minions to Doombots. Get into details of Doom rising in the Latverian ranks, infact it would be interesting to have the former ruler as a regular character and villain before Doom goes full on Bad ***. And by just immediately copying the 616 in his next appearance you ruin that potential
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
Never read the book of doom by Brubaker did you, the book that detailed Doom going from a mere gypsy peasant to the powerful villain we all today, Ultimate doom doing that would be old hat.
Dude sometimes I'm more then willing to give up realism for the sake of epic and dramatic story telling. Sure Ultimate doom is more realistic, but he is far less of a magnificent bastard then 616 doom. I am more then willing to trade to realism for more magnificent bastards.
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
I'm just saying the cronologically seeing the rise of Doom into the bad *** would have been better for the UU than just throwing in 616 Doom. I know Doom has a good "rise of" stories tale, but a unique one for the UU would have been better and more interesting
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
But chronologically, in the first arc he went from being in a hippie camp, to the ruler of latveria in his second arc. So they would have to do a flashback to establish the upgrade, just like they did a flash back to establish 616 doom's rise to power.
frankly because Ultimate doom is a far less epic character then 616 Doom, I care far less about his rise to power, IMO. I mean 616 doom's rise to power involved fighting a creature that could be considered Satan, how is Ultimate doom supposed to top that?
Goodwill
Well-Known Member
I guess I was looking at this list as the biggest baddies, not necessarily my favorite. If I had to choose a favorite, it'd have to go to a villain from Spidey. They're by far the most fleshed out and interesting.
So... I'd go with Venom, probably.
So... I'd go with Venom, probably.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
Because an epic origin is a better origin.
Sarcasm aside, this isn't to suggest that Ultimate Doom has the better origin (he doesn't) just that I maintain that he's worthy of at least half the stature accorded to 616 Doom because they are the same self-superior asswipe.
Sarcasm aside, this isn't to suggest that Ultimate Doom has the better origin (he doesn't) just that I maintain that he's worthy of at least half the stature accorded to 616 Doom because they are the same self-superior asswipe.
The Overlord
Well-Known Member
With Doom, yeah an epic origin is needed and is superior, that's one the things that makes him better then some loser like the Wizard. Like I said Doom getting beaten by his daddy is so generic, that's every psychopath's excuse.
It doesn't matter if they are both the same superior asswipe (guess what, whether they are both asswipes is highly debatable) , 616 Doom is way more of a magnificent bastard then ultimate doom, that's why he gets more respect. The only time ultimate doom did anything remotely awesome is when Millar made him a clone of 616 Doom.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
No, what makes Doom better than the Wizard is that his smug sense of self-superiority is better developed, and the fact that for all intents and purposes, he may actually BE the superior or equal of Richards.
Not his epic origin. It's definitely a plus though.
Also, I'm not suggesting that Ultimate Doom is awesome because he is an abused psychopath, but that he's actually a well-developed psychopath (yes, I deliberately removed abused) whose psychosis is driven primarily by his ego NOT by abuse.
Goodwill
Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with Ourchair on this one. I think, for the most part, they've done Doom right in the UU. Not the Latveria part necessarily... Well, I'd say under Ellis' pen Latveria was cool. Millar kind of went in and made it what it was in 616 so he could work around stuff. Doom's cool, definitely.
