MJ as Ult. Spider-Woman = good idea!

compound

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I, for one, am in support of the proposal that MJ should eventually become Ultimate Spider-Woman. Why?

1) It's a completely unexplored dynamic. 616 Peter/MJ is stale because it's built around different ways that MJ copes with being second priority to Peter's superhero life. Yawn.

Bu making MJ into Ultimate Spider-Woman, it broadens the storytelling possibilities within the context of their relationship as well as the larger narrative.

It's already too late to introduce any drastic changes in their 616 relationship now, without upsetting hardcore fanboys, or jeopardizing commercial tie-ins. Let's not allow the same thing to happen in the UU.

2) It makes sense, in continuity terms. In the Ultimate Universe, Peter revealed his alter-ego to MJ much earlier, effectively making her an accomplice and supporter throughout the majority of his superhero career. Becoming his side-kick/partner would be the next logical step in their pairing.

3) It's ripe with thematic possibilities. The Spidey mythos has long been driven by the whole tired, familiar Power/Responsibility schtick. But Peter recieved his 'talents' by an accident of fate. How would things be different if MJ chose to take on the same kind of Power -- and hence, the Responsibility that comes with it? Would she even know what she's getting into?

4) It will revitalize MJ, as a character. MJ as strong-willed, long-suffering partner has been done to the death. MJ as super-powered equal to Spider-Man seems a lot more fulfilling, as a character arc. It has a distinct direction that's different from 616, while retaining her essential personality and background.

Counter-arguments most welcome! :D
 

marvelman

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I think if she became Spider-Woman, I'd pick up the singles again. It'd be an interesting development that could be played out well. We'll see what happens...
 

E.Vi.L.

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For one thing, if there could be not a single XX-Girl or XX-Woman version of a male character in the UU, I'd be happy. Each character, get your own schtick, damn it! It smacks too much of the Superman, Supergirl, Superboy and even a frigging Superdog non-sense.

Secondly, Spider-Man isn't a side-kick kind of superhero. Part of the mystic of the character is that he mostly bear his heavy burden alone.

Thirdly, this has more the feel of Politically Correctness and Grrrl power than of a really bold new direction. Exploring in a more contemporary setting the effects of one partner of the relationship being a superhuman and the other being "just" a human is more Ultimate than just tossing the dilemna away by making both superhumans.

Finally, we'd probably find out that a super powered MJ is in effect not very different than several of the super women in the titles and her character would lose a lot of her uniqueness. MJ is amongst the few significant UU character without super powers. In the context of the stories we are being told, her lack of powers make her more unique and distinctive than super powers would.
 
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Victor Von Doom

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I would not be opposed to the idea but I have trouble seing as how it would play out in the long term. MJ can't be Spiderwoman forever ya know??? It's supposed to be all about Peter. But I think it would make for an interesting arc.

It I was to do it it'd go something like this:

Part 1---MJ sees how being Spidey is killing Peter. Physically he can hang...but he's breaking down mentally. He just can't cope with problem after problem.

She then remembers Doc Conners was helping Peter with something before. She goes to Connors (who still has a seperate sample of Pete's DNA) to see if there's any way to reverse or take away Pete's powers. While working with some mystery chemical that was supposed to be mixing with Pete's DNA in order to cause the spider portion of his genes to go dormant...the chemical heats up too fast and explodes causing MJ to absorb some into her skin---thus getting in her system and bonding with her DNA.



Part 2---Doc does a full examination of her and gives her a clean bill of health. The both of them decide that what they are doing is stupid and both agree to discontinue the project and keep it a secret from Peter.

Later.....MJ starts discovering she now has powers of her own.



Part 3---Still deciding not to tell Peter just yet....she decides to share/delve into Pete's superhero world in order to understand what goes on in his brain. She makes herself a suit and steals some of Pete's webbing when she visits him. As Spidey himself is out on patrol....he thwarts a robbery and all of a sudden his Spidersense goes off he turns around preparing to thwart his attacker but it's too late Spidergirl has already covered his back.



Part 4---Peter thinks she is some kinda stalker freak who is infatuated with him. He's flattered but is kinda mad because the Spider thing was his schtick. He rushes home to tell MJ about the whole thing. She totally goes along with him and doesn't let on that its her.

She has now actually gotten addicted to being a hero. It's such a rush. SHe has random run-ins with Spidey. It's all so great until she gets in over her head.



Part 5---Spidey saves MJ from whatever thing she couldn't handle and she thanks him and lets her secret identity slip. Peter is shocked and spends the next couple of pages brooding...then finally blowing up at MJ. They argue...Peter calls MJ stupid and then says he feels betrayed because he told her his secret......why couldn't she tell him hers??? He says he can't take this life anymore and swings off......



Part 6---The coping issue. Mainly this issue's plot would be Peter going behind MJ's back to go to Conners for the exact same thing MJ did. He wants to figure out a way to get rid of her powers. He loves her too much to have her have to suffer the same sacrifices he did. They both invent a virus that should eat away her spider-genes. MJ takes the serum unknowingly and then eventually sees her powers go away. She tells Peter all about it....and why she did what she did.....and that she loves him. They make up but Peter now has the hurt/distrusting vibe on his face.






Yeah that was weak sauce. There's the reason I don't write for Marvel..................or anyone for that matter. :oops:
 

compound

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E.Vi.L. said:
For one thing, if there could be not a single XX-Girl or XX-Woman version of a male character in the UU, I'd be happy. Each character, get your own schtick, damn it! It smacks too much of the Superman, Supergirl, Superboy and even a frigging Superdog non-sense.
Granted, it's not very original. ButI in the specific context of the upcoming "Parker Legacy" arc, it would make sense for MJ to acquite spider-powers, since presumably the "Legacy" of the title refers to the Venom suit, which has already been imprinted with Peter's irradiated-spider-DNA. So while I'm also skeptical about the idea of duplicate powers, in this particular context, it makes sense.

E.Vi.L. said:
Thirdly, this has more the feel of Politically Correctness and Grrrl power than of a really bold new direction. Exploring in a more contemporary setting the effects of one partner of the relationship being a superhuman and the other being "just" a human is more Ultimate than just tossing the dilemna away by making both superhumans.
Peter's superheroics drove a seemingly irreperable rift between himself and MJ. She can't relate to it. I believe she'd jump at the chance to finally understand what she's missing out on; what kind of situations compel Peter to devote himself so single-mindedly to a particular lifestyle. In the same way, say, a Preppie girl might dabble in the Punk subculture to better understand her boyfriend. Perhaps it's a little dangerous, yes, but it's a voluntary decision to familiarize herself with the world her friend and ex-BF inhabits, in order to better understand him. And there's nothing unrealistic about that.


E.Vi.L. said:
Finally, we'd probably find out that a super powered MJ is in effect not very different than several of the super women in the titles and her character would lose a lot of her uniqueness.
Are you so certain about that? Peter hooked up with Kitty Pryde, and now MJ is probably asking herself, "What's that ***** got that I don't?" (okay, so MJ doesn't ordinarily use that kind of language, but whatever). The obvious answers are (a) super-powers, and (b) a life that involves a delicate balance between mundane activities, formal education, and superheroics. If circumstances allowed MJ to have all those things, then hypothetically, it ought to make both her and Peter reevaluate their relationship with each other, since her 'normality' was ostensibly the reason for their break-up. It raises the dramatic stakes, if written correctly.
.
 
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ourchair

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compound said:
I, for one, am in support of the proposal that MJ should eventually become Ultimate Spider-Woman. Why?

1) It's a completely unexplored dynamic. 616 Peter/MJ is stale because it's built around different ways that MJ copes with being second priority to Peter's superhero life. Yawn.

Bu making MJ into Ultimate Spider-Woman, it broadens the storytelling possibilities within the context of their relationship as well as the larger narrative.

It's already too late to introduce any drastic changes in their 616 relationship now, without upsetting hardcore fanboys, or jeopardizing commercial tie-ins. Let's not allow the same thing to happen in the UU.

2) It makes sense, in continuity terms. In the Ultimate Universe, Peter revealed his alter-ego to MJ much earlier, effectively making her an accomplice and supporter throughout the majority of his superhero career. Becoming his side-kick/partner would be the next logical step in their pairing.

3) It's ripe with thematic possibilities. The Spidey mythos has long been driven by the whole tired, familiar Power/Responsibility schtick. But Peter recieved his 'talents' by an accident of fate. How would things be different if MJ chose to take on the same kind of Power -- and hence, the Responsibility that comes with it? Would she even know what she's getting into?

4) It will revitalize MJ, as a character. MJ as strong-willed, long-suffering partner has been done to the death. MJ as super-powered equal to Spider-Man seems a lot more fulfilling, as a character arc. It has a distinct direction that's different from 616, while retaining her essential personality and background.

Counter-arguments most welcome! :D
YES YES YES.

I agree, and I used to be one of those hardcore 616 fanboys. I think it also works even if you subscribe to Bendis storytelling logic. Bendis justified Peter outting himself to MJ simply because it was the most obvious thing a fifteen year old would do if he had superpowers.

Well, one of the problems I've always had with Spider-Man, 616 OR Ultimate, is that if MJ finds it too emotionally stressful to SUPPORT Peter's spandex hobbies, finds it too difficult to remain romantically committed and too problematic to be placed in harm's way for knowing his secret, then she WHY DOESN'T SHE LEAVE HIS LIFE PERMANENTLY?

616 has been so violently divided by fans who are either against Peter's marital life or believe in MJ and Peter as predestined couple meant to endure all struggle that resolution is impossible. Separating them seems impossible and so does giving her powers.

What I like about your idea though, is that its not entirely out of left field. Remember that immediately after it bit Peter, the Oz spider almost bit her too before getting squashed. She could have had amazing spider-powers too, and its something she's brought up more than once I think.

Also, true to Bendis' obsession with people who 'close their eyes and try to imagine the fourth-dimensional aspect of having superpowers', MJ has been pretty much obsessed with what Peter's life as a superhuman is like, which might explain why she's put up with him for so long. She's literally dependent on living vicariously through Peter, and giving her powers would help explore that angle of her character.
 

Victor Von Doom

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Hellsbuttmonkey said:
The only problem....Connors is in jail ain't he???

And the Osborn along with the rest of the Ultimate 6 were being held in captivity by SHIELD..........didn't stop them did it??? :wink:

In the Marvel Universe......you're only in jail because you wanna be there.
 

E.Vi.L.

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compound said:
It raises the dramatic stakes, if written correctly.
.

I disagree, it lowers them.

Peter and Kitty works well together because they have much in common and are both superheros. It feels natural but it's not in itself dramatic.

If Bendis decides to have Peter stay for a while, or even forever, with Kitty, it's okay. But if Peter goes back to MJ, it has to be in spite of the problems caused by her being normal and him being a super. It has to be because he is willing to work through this gap between them. Not because a plot twist has erased that difference. Any dramatic tension between Peter and MJ is caused by this rift that his lifestyle produce. Reducing this rift will not increase the dramatic tension.

I'd rather see Peter stay with Kitty than go back to a super powered MJ.

---

Now, a storyline about MJ trying to acquire powers in order to win back Peter might be interesting. Especially if it fails badly. But MJ becoming an actual super hero is not something I'd want to see.
 
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compound

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Victor Von Doom said:
In the Marvel Universe......you're only in jail because you wanna be there.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

So true!!!

For a maximum-security headquarters of a national peace-keeping force, the Triskelion sure seems easy to break into (Mystique in "Magnetic North"; Magneto in Ultimate War) and out of (Ultimate Six; the X-villains in "Magnetic North")
 
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E.Vi.L.

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Victor Von Doom said:
In the Marvel Universe......you're only in jail because you wanna be there.

:lol:

Except in this case, Conners want to be there. Hey, he surrendered.
 

ourchair

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E.Vi.L. said:
I disagree, it lowers them.

Peter and Kitty works well together because they have much in common and are both superheros. It feels natural.

If Bendis decides to have Peter stay for a while, or even forever, with Kitty, it's okay. But if he goes back to MJ, it has to be in spite of the problems caused by her being normal and him being a super. It has to be because he is willing to work through this gap between them. Not because a plot twist has erased that difference.
Solid points.

But I was under the impression that Compound's proposal was meant to be a short term multi-arc thing. Meaning that you still get the MJ-normal/Peter=Super dynamic but their relationship becomes informed by MJ's experiences as a one-time superhuman.

Also, I think if MJ got powers, it doesn't necessarily mean that her powers would be spidery in nature or that she'd possess the powers long enough to adopt a masked persona, much less a Spider-Woman one.

I think the fundamental problem of this premise is that to my knowledge, we haven't really seen a case where someone got powers and lost them.
 

The Overlord

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compound said:
I, for one, am in support of the proposal that MJ should eventually become Ultimate Spider-Woman. Why?

1) It's a completely unexplored dynamic. 616 Peter/MJ is stale because it's built around different ways that MJ copes with being second priority to Peter's superhero life. Yawn.

Bu making MJ into Ultimate Spider-Woman, it broadens the storytelling possibilities within the context of their relationship as well as the larger narrative.

It's already too late to introduce any drastic changes in their 616 relationship now, without upsetting hardcore fanboys, or jeopardizing commercial tie-ins. Let's not allow the same thing to happen in the UU.

2) It makes sense, in continuity terms. In the Ultimate Universe, Peter revealed his alter-ego to MJ much earlier, effectively making her an accomplice and supporter throughout the majority of his superhero career. Becoming his side-kick/partner would be the next logical step in their pairing.

3) It's ripe with thematic possibilities. The Spidey mythos has long been driven by the whole tired, familiar Power/Responsibility schtick. But Peter recieved his 'talents' by an accident of fate. How would things be different if MJ chose to take on the same kind of Power -- and hence, the Responsibility that comes with it? Would she even know what she's getting into?

4) It will revitalize MJ, as a character. MJ as strong-willed, long-suffering partner has been done to the death. MJ as super-powered equal to Spider-Man seems a lot more fulfilling, as a character arc. It has a distinct direction that's different from 616, while retaining her essential personality and background.

Counter-arguments most welcome! :D

How about, no Scott.
 

compound

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ourchair said:
I think the fundamental problem of this premise is that to my knowledge, we haven't really seen a case where someone got powers and lost them.
There's already a built-in contingency for that within Ultimate continuity -- Fury would wet himself for a chance to discover whether the Oz formula could be reversed. There's a very practical reason for him to do so, too: the prospect of supersoldiers using temporary spider-powers.
 

ourchair

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compound said:
There's already a built-in contingency for that within Ultimate continuity -- Fury would wet himself for a chance to discover whether the Oz formula could be reversed. There's a very practical reason for him to do so, too: the prospect of supersoldiers using temporary spider-powers.
This is a lead-in to MGH-type ideas like the one you proposed in your Ultimate Omega Red idea, isn't it?
 

compound

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ourchair said:
This is a lead-in to MGH-type ideas like the one you proposed in your Ultimate Omega Red idea, isn't it?
No, it has a solid basis in UU continuity.

At the end of "Hobgoblin", Fury vows to take Peter's powers away, if necessary. So we know he intends to launch a concerted effort to neutralize the effects of Oz.

From there, I extrapolated the most obvious military application of that discovery.
 

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I can't tell if this is a joke thread or not...:?
 

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