Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

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DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
I'm not reading this so please catch me up. Why aren't they happy with her?
I only read it months ago and I've already forgotten the details. But basically, Kitty was leading the mutant nation in the US desert, and Jean Grey was leading the floating mutant nation in the South Pacific. Jean Grey went all control freak and tried to absorb the Utopia mutant nation, but Kitty resisted. A war between the two mutant nations erupted, and Kitty and the Utopia mutants destroyed Jean's floating city.

Kitty stepped down as leader sometime during all that mess.

But i doubt the "Serpent Skulls" are a simple street gang. They might also need to restore order after Cataclysm.
Simple street gang or not, it seems like a shallow and simplistic (and out of character since Kitty's been leading since Ultimatum) for Kitty not to be using the more diplomatic and impressive (and more cerebral) talents she's gained instead of being a supporting character on a Junior Ultimates team.

Kitty's development and character growth is one of the few good aspects of the Ultimate line post-Fallout. It seems like a major step back to relegate her as a fighter on the new Ultimates.
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
I only read it months ago and I've already forgotten the details. But basically, Kitty was leading the mutant nation in the US desert, and Jean Grey was leading the floating mutant nation in the South Pacific. Jean Grey went all control freak and tried to absorb the Utopia mutant nation, but Kitty resisted. A war between the two mutant nations erupted, and Kitty and the Utopia mutants destroyed Jean's floating city.
Didn't Reed Richards destroy a floating city just before that?

All of this "all-new" relaunched stuff just demonstrates that no one at Marvel knows what to do with these books. They seem afraid to kill them off even though I never heard a single word against the idea when the rumor was that was going to happen. More throwing poop against the wall to see what sticks.
 

Venom Melendez

Well-Known Member
Simple street gang or not, it seems like a shallow and simplistic (and out of character since Kitty's been leading since Ultimatum) for Kitty not to be using the more diplomatic and impressive (and more cerebral) talents she's gained instead of being a supporting character on a Junior Ultimates team.
You are making a lot of assumptions there. First of all, it would not be "out of character" considering the events of Cataclysm. And it's highly likely that they are going to need her "diplomatic" and "impressive talents" on the Ultimates, because they are The Ultimates. There are no other Ultimates, they are it.

Joining them is actually a step up for her. Plus, it will be great to see Kitty find out Jessica is Peter's clone.

All of this "all-new" relaunched stuff just demonstrates that no one at Marvel knows what to do with these books. They seem afraid to kill them off even though I never heard a single word against the idea when the rumor was that was going to happen. More throwing poop against the wall to see what sticks.
Actually, there were several people speaking against the end of the UU. Especially the Miles Morales fans who are fans of Miles and his group, which is why they have a team book now. Besides, they were never actually going to end the MU.
 
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DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
Didn't Reed Richards destroy a floating city just before that? All of this "all-new" relaunched stuff just demonstrates that no one at Marvel knows what to do with these books.
No, that was the stationary city of Washington, DC.

They seem afraid to kill them off even though I never heard a single word against the idea when the rumor was that was going to happen. More throwing poop against the wall to see what sticks.
Yep.

You are making a lot of assumptions there. First of all, it would not be "out of character" considering the events of Cataclysm.
That sounds an awful lot like an assumption.

And it's highly likely that they are going to need her "diplomatic" and "impressive talents" on the Ultimates, because they are The Ultimates. There are no other Ultimates, they are it. Joining them is actually a step up for her. Plus, it will be great to see Kitty find out Jessica is Peter's clone.
Ahem. The Jr. Ultimates.

Plus if that's all the book is going to rely on, it's in a lot of trouble.

Actually, there were several people speaking against the end of the UU. Especially the Miles Morales fans who are fans of Miles and his group, which is why they have a team book now. Besides, they were never actually going to end the MU.
Even though they should, since it's level of quality and reasons for existing are almost non-existant, and it's sales numbers are on track with the numbers the 616 books get canceled at.
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
Actually, there were several people speaking against the end of the UU. Especially the Miles Morales fans who are fans of Miles and his group, which is why they have a team book now. Besides, they were never actually going to end the MU.
I'm assuming you mean the UU, and that right there is a bad assumption. The line is dead. Hardly anyone reads it.

As for the Miles stuff - most of what I read was in favor of ending the creatively bankrupt UU under the assumption that Miles would be crossing over into the MU, or that only he and USM would remain.
 

Zeek

Well-Known Member
Wow. Huh.

I'm kind of two minds about this. On the one hand, this is more or less in line with my wish to get Miles' world and cast along with him and is infinitely preferable to him going over to 616 on his own. The other books at least sound interesting, and for the first time since the Ultimate Universe's Golden Age (i.e. pre-Ultimatum) we're actually getting team books that aren't just aping 616 in some way and aren't trying to be different through VIOLENCE or DEATH or POLITICS. I mean, I obviously haven't read the books so they could still end up being all grim, but they seem at least kind of fun. When was the last time that the Ultimate Universe was actually fun, outside of Spidey? So there's that.

On the other hand...well, everything everybody else has said here, with a particular focus on Cataclysm wasn't necessary for this to happen. The problem, of course, is that (like E said) nobody reads the UU anymore, so a change in status quo can't be subtle and we get these big dumb events that "change everything", including what was actually working. On top of that, my joy that we get to keep Miles and his world is kind of tempered by what happened in USM's Cataclysm book. Is he really going to go back to school? He certainly won't go back home, now that his dad knows he's Spidey and rejected him pretty much wholesale (unless something really contrived happens, like memory loss; I honestly don't know which I prefer).

I would be more excited for this if Cataclysm didn't happen. I plan to give these books a shot, but I feel like this is probably Marvel's last chance with this imprint and I can't even say that I know why they're bothering to give it another shot.
 

Captain Canuck

The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Wow. Huh.

I'm kind of two minds about this. On the one hand, this is more or less in line with my wish to get Miles' world and cast along with him and is infinitely preferable to him going over to 616 on his own.
Yeah, I agree with this.

The other books at least sound interesting, and for the first time since the Ultimate Universe's Golden Age (i.e. pre-Ultimatum)
Ultimate Universe's Golden Age ended WAY before Ultimatum. It started to decline when Bendis took over all things Avengers (2005). Once he started writing 8 books, his quality took a nose dive. I've liked USM all the way through and actually loved some of the stories after that, but over all, it got a lot more dumb. the "golden age" was officially over by 2006 when Kirkman took over UXM, Carey took over UFF, and Bendis gave us the Ultimate Clone Saga.

Ultimatum/Ultimates 3/The Ultimate Hulk Annual didn't mark the end of the golden age, they marked a low point in the history of comics.

But honestly, I can't be upset that the Ultimate universe continues to limp along. Ultimate Spider-Man is still one of my favourite books and I'll continue to get it.
 
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E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
Ultimate Universe's Golden Age ended WAY before Ultimatum. It started to decline when Bendis took over all things Avengers (2005). Once he started writing 8 books, his quality took a nose dive.
I think it started with Ultimate Carnage (early 2004-ish). That was terrible but it rebounded for a while - not all the way, but the following stories were certainly better.

MJGoblin (was that during Clone Saga? I can't remember) was when the decline of the UU hit full speed. After that it was just garbage on top of garbage on top of garbage.

I don't know where UFF fits in with those events chronologically, but the first arc of that book was the first REALLY substandard UU story. I'm not counting Ultimate Marvel Team-Up because while most of those stories were worse, it seems obvious to me that it was just a bunch of stories told at a point where no one knew what to do with this line. But the hype for UFF compared to the quality of the book (the first arc; Ellis's run was good) - that was the first glimpse we got that they weren't going to be committed to keeping up the quality established by Ultimates and early USM.

I've always thought UXM has been mostly bad from the beginning. The saving grace was BKV - his run was fantastic. But even early on - Millar was not telling the same quality stories that he was in Ultimates. It seemed like filler to me; like, "oh, of course we have to put out an X-book so here's this."
 

wyokid

Well-Known Member
For me the low points were the two Heroes writers on UXM and UFF, Kirkman, ALL of Millar, and Hickman. The rest I've quite enjoyed.
 

Zombipanda

My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Ironically, Kirkman's Cable and Bendis' Clone Saga were two of the most promising stories in the line, in concept. Pity they ended so miserably.
 

wyokid

Well-Known Member
Wait...people didn't like the Ultimate Clone Saga? Are you kidding me? That was one of the best stories.
 

Zombipanda

My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Those were some of the best parts! That whole thing was one huge reveal after another. It was such an exciting read!
One of my problems with Bendis' writing is that things just happen without much reason or consequence, and interesting themes are developed but never really explored. Clone Saga was the quintessential example of this.
 

Ultimate Houde

UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
One of my problems with Bendis' writing is that things just happen without much reason or consequence, and interesting themes are developed but never really explored. Clone Saga was the quintessential example of this.
Kinda like Geoff Johns writes now, back when he wrote JSA, it was different, he at least gave indications things were progressing somewhere, now its OMG PANDORA, OMG PANDORA'S SKULL!, OMFG CRIME SNDICATE!, OMFFG LEX LUTHRO CAPTAIN COLD IN JSTICE LEAGGUEUE!
 

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