Should deceased characters in the ultimate Universe stay dead?

The Overlord

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Since a lot of characters have died in the Ultimate Universe (some often unceremoniously and abruptly) I thought I would ask if deceased characters should stay dead in the UU? Is there are any circumstances where a character should be brought back or should they stay dead? Also if characters stay dead, should they bring in legacy characters as replacements (similar to how Wally West became the Flash when Barry Allen died in the 80s, before he came back)?
 

the watcher

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Well, on some level I think some of them should. I was going to say Peter Parker if this new Spider-Man didn't work out.... But then again maybe Pete should return. His days as Spider-Man would still be over. I think maybe restart the UFF and have Peter as the new Mr. Fantastic. Reed was going to kill him cause he say the potential for Peter to be a great leader in science. Out of everyone in the UU. I always thought Pete would have been the most likley to fill in Reed shoes, if Reed had died or something.
 

robje

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I thought this was one of the core points of the Ultimate Universe. And it's where it differs from the 616 universe where death is a revolving door. Dead means dead in the Ultimate universe.
And we've already had some unnecessary fake-outs (Beast, Norman Osborn, professor X) and even some clear disregard of this rule (Gwen Stacy, general Ross) but I really wish they would stick to this rule.
It just makes the tension of lifethreatning situations more real. And on the rare occasion that a hero does die we actually feel sad for losing him or her. I think it works a lot better.
Having said that, Ultimatum just went overboard with its deathtoll and I think we'll see beloved characters spring back to life within a few months. I guess they could bring in legacy characters (we already have a bunch actually; Black Widow, Spider-man, wolverine and Daredevil to name a few) But I'd much rather see some new characters take the spotlight.
 

the watcher

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and even some clear disregard of this rule (Gwen Stacy, general Ross) but I really wish they would stick to this rule.

Yeah, but Bendis explained that.... Ben puched a dinosaur. And Tthat's why the FF was younger and Gwen, Ross and Hammerhead where brought back. :roll:
 

robje

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Yeah, but Bendis explained that.... Ben puched a dinosaur. And Tthat's why the FF was younger and Gwen, Ross and Hammerhead where brought back. :roll:

It always gets explained in the 616 universe too. Weather it's dark magics, or the phoenix force, or a time travel, or a deal with the devil, or cloning, or a black space ring, or punching a dinosaur, they are brought back. Which cheapens their death and removes the threat of dieing. Ben can always go back and punch some more dinosaurs if someone dies.
 

The Overlord

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I thought this was one of the core points of the Ultimate Universe. And it's where it differs from the 616 universe where death is a revolving door. Dead means dead in the Ultimate universe.
And we've already had some unnecessary fake-outs (Beast, Norman Osborn, professor X) and even some clear disregard of this rule (Gwen Stacy, general Ross) but I really wish they would stick to this rule.
It just makes the tension of lifethreatning situations more real. And on the rare occasion that a hero does die we actually feel sad for losing him or her. I think it works a lot better.
Having said that, Ultimatum just went overboard with its deathtoll and I think we'll see beloved characters spring back to life within a few months. I guess they could bring in legacy characters (we already have a bunch actually; Black Widow, Spider-man, wolverine and Daredevil to name a few) But I'd much rather see some new characters take the spotlight.

The problem is too many characters were killed off in ways that felt very abrupt and unceremonious. Their deaths didn't have an impact because they had no real build up, too many were killed because of shock value or story convenience. These kind of deaths don't feel dramatic, they feel cheap and meaningless.

Daredevil died off panel, that's a real waste, he didn't even get to have an awesome death scene, instead he dies and we never see how. Comics is a visual medium, show don't tell. Heck pretty well everyone who died in Ultimatium got a death that was cheap and meaningless and in the case of Wasp down right disrespectful.

Its not just Ultimatium that wasted characters in rather meaningless deaths. Look at the way Sebastian Shaw died in UXM, he dies 3 or 4 issues after his first appearance and he just gets melted by the Phoenix. I think they could have down more with that character, I don't think Sebastian Shaw is a fundamentally lame character, look at how Shaw was handled in X-Men First Class, he was a great villain there, better then in the comics. First Class Shaw seems more like a better alternate version of Shaw then one in UXM. When Sebastian Shaw died in the movie, it was powerful moment, it symbolized Magneto getting revenge and trying his back of Xavier's ideals at the same time. When Shaw died in the UU, it was meaningless.

That's the problem with killing off characters, when they die you cut off a potential avenue for telling more stories. There still could have been more stories to be told with Wasp, Daredevil, Angel, Cyclops, Wolverine, Shaw and frankly anyone who had a cheap death. I at least liked Spidey's death, because it had a build up and didn't feel cheap and meaningless.

UU writers should either have a moratorium on killing characters or should only kill characters when they can figure out how do it the right way, having a awesome or meaningful death scene. UU kinda shot itself in the foot with all these shock deaths.
 

robje

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The problem is too many characters were killed off in ways that felt very abrupt and unceremonious. Their deaths didn't have an impact because they had no real build up, too many were killed because of shock value or story convenience. These kind of deaths don't feel dramatic, they feel cheap and meaningless.

Daredevil died off panel, that's a real waste, he didn't even get to have an awesome death scene, instead he dies and we never see how. Comics is a visual medium, show don't tell. Heck pretty well everyone who died in Ultimatium got a death that was cheap and meaningless and in the case of Wasp down right disrespectful.

Its not just Ultimatium that wasted characters in rather meaningless deaths. Look at the way Sebastian Shaw died in UXM, he dies 3 or 4 issues after his first appearance and he just gets melted by the Phoenix. I think they could have down more with that character, I don't think Sebastian Shaw is a fundamentally lame character, look at how Shaw was handled in X-Men First Class, he was a great villain there, better then in the comics. First Class Shaw seems more like a better alternate version of Shaw then one in UXM. When Sebastian Shaw died in the movie, it was powerful moment, it symbolized Magneto getting revenge and trying his back of Xavier's ideals at the same time. When Shaw died in the UU, it was meaningless.

That's the problem with killing off characters, when they die you cut off a potential avenue for telling more stories. There still could have been more stories to be told with Wasp, Daredevil, Angel, Cyclops, Wolverine, Shaw and frankly anyone who had a cheap death. I at least liked Spidey's death, because it had a build up and didn't feel cheap and meaningless.

UU writers should either have a moratorium on killing characters or should only kill characters when they can figure out how do it the right way, having a awesome or meaningful death scene. UU kinda shot itself in the foot with all these shock deaths.

I agree 100%. Loeb ruined UU to it's very core.
 

The Overlord

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I agree 100%. Loeb ruined UU to it's very core.

I think this is why there is some room to argue that deceased characters should come back, because 90% of the deaths in the UU are meaningless. If a death in comics is awesome or really sad, people are more likely to respect and less likely to say it should be overturned. If a death is lame and meaningless, people are less likely to respect and want to see it overturned. The best way to make your death stick is write an interesting death scene. I am not sure many death in the UU can match other greats deaths in other comic book universes, like the Question's death in 52. That was an effective death and that was just the Question dying of cancer. That's a million times better then the deaths of Wasp, DD, Shaw and almost any other character in the UU.

So I am two minds as to whether deceased characters should be brought back in the UU, one the hand most of these deaths suck so I have no reason to respect them and would think there is more story telling potential in brining these characters back. On the other hand, I wouldn't want death to become a total joke in the UU, constantly brining characters back and think perhaps it would be best if the writers just lie in the bed they made and try to focus on the remaining characters.
 

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