Star Wars Episode VII - The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]

[DIrishB]

My buddy and I were mocking the one that said you should give plot holes a pass because it's the first in a trilogy.

EDIT: I have now had a chance to read the article you posted and I believe it's the one he was referring to. What a joke.

What plot holes?

There were 40 supposed ones discounted by the article. Are you confusing unresolved plot threads with plot holes?

See this crap is getting old



Yeah like cherry picking the fact people said she could do same as luke had ONE instance She had LOTS in same time. That type of cherry picking? Or Pretending people haven't always said Anakin was a skit character and act like Rey is the first people hate. That type?

Or like continuously ignoring the fact Ren had been shot by a bowcaster, sure. Also, I'm not acting like Rey is the first people hate. I never said or intimated that. Please stop twisting that into something its not. I'm saying I don't get why there is a double standard applied to Rey and not Luke/Anakin in terms of their powers.

The facts are it's a film that may or may not need to explain more stuff and people wanting either more fleshing out or it seems out of no where or people saying it told them is not CHERRY PICKING that is opinion. Get the **** over this idea that everyone is picking on rey because ... what ever reason. Can't be the female thing as no one said this with :Lucy or Kill Bill , can't be the disney thing as no one is saying this about the Star Wars Rebels or people are not claiming captain phasma is.

I agree, never once did I say you couldn't have a problem with the pacing, etc. Your opinions are yours. I just don't understand how one gets a pass the other doesn't.

Also, I'm not saying there aren't strong female characters in film, so I'm not sure what Lucy or Kill Bill has to do with anything. Why do you keep acting as if I'm calling you a sexist? I'm not. Please realize that. I don't think your dislike of the film has anything to do with Rey's sex, but the whole Disney decanonizing the EU thing.

Some people like myself don't like Rey in the film. The pacing makes it seem like she pulls crap out her ass in a mary sue way. Guess what same thing I said about base kid goku in Dragonball GT. You see i am using that as example as look at Dragonball. Goku is small child with a stick who kicks ass no complains a\s we see him grow we seem fail we see him lean. Skip to GT and everything is just badly written and as result kid Goku in base form (his other forms are not as strong .... why?) is laughed at by fans.

Right, but in Dragonball GT is it implied Goku had Saiyan training (as in TFA its implied Rey had Jedi training? Either way its irrelevant.

The fact is the movie to some was full of it's self.

That's fair. Of course, as pointed out by the article I posted so are many of the reviews.

The whole death star was nothing compared to this is trying way to hard to say "Our star wars is better than Original trilogy or prequel" and when you do that more negatives get seen.

Ok, I don't get that impression at all. But to each their own.

Is Rey the worst character in a movie? No. Is as good a lead as Furiosa in fury road? NO.

Agreed. Furiosa was written far more realistically, but of course so is that entire WORLD/franchise. You're comparing a post-apocalyptic series to a space opera/fantasy series.

They made her do too many things also the Obi-wan role comment i had made in one of these was she even hangs down to avoid troops the same way.

I don't understand what you mean here.

Also Yes as i said she does TOO many things. You can say "LOLz everyone out shoots a storm trooper" But now you are ignoring facts as they hit stuff and the film had to show it, People ran from them, she picks up a gun and having had to be told about the safety showing NO experience she killed a few by outr shooting them.

So did Luke on the Death Star. Again, so what? This is what I mean by unobjectivity. If you're calling her out for this but giving Luke a pass, it literally doesn't make sense, man.

Now look at look. They explained he had shot before and all movie he was be lead to use the force by Obi. So even his death star wars not "wait what?"

Right. And maybe you've have a point if Rey had made an impossible shot at ludicrous speeds, but she didn't. She shot some Stormtroopers. Literally every "good guy" character in the SW lore has done so. How is shooting Stormtroopers unbelievable? It's what they're there for: they're cannon fodder.

Her feat of reversing a mind trick the way she did we have never seen in a film even the prequels when Jedis were in their prime.

There was a lot of stuff we didn't see Jedi do in their prime during prequels. Doesn't mean they couldn't do it. Also, don't forget, insanely high likelihood of Jedi training in Rey's past, so...

Also I know Ren was heart by a Bowcaster also the novel says killing his dad made him weaker however your ignoring the horrible pasing of how fast he got out to cut them off, the fact all he did was bang his chest. Basicly the bad acting + awkward cuts make him seem more powerful. I also don't think Ren should actually be shown beating Rey movie one. You see if they HAD to show them fight then he should. However look at a new hope or even phantom Menace , Luke never faced Vader and Anakin never faced Maul. That is better, THAT is a star wars movie tradition. Movie 1 main hero of trilogy never faces villain , Movie 2 get ass kicked , movie 3 kick ass. It's pacing it's tradition it's building.

Wait, so let me get this straight. The movie both followed or "ripped off" A New Hope too much, but also changed things too much? Is that the argument here? Also, by Star Wars tradition, Luke should've died this movie, not Han. So what?

Rey to me feels like she wont grow as much as Anakin grew

But, Anakin really didn't grow, at all, in the Prequels. He was essentially always a whiny kid, even as a 20-something adult. There was no real evolution of Anakin's character in the Prequels outside of the necessities to get him to become Darth Vader. It was all quite predictable, rote, etc.

or Luke grey as she feels too perfect. It'd be like when I see Creed. I don't care if theyu say he comes from boxing royalty or if he was trained all his life. If he KOs is main opponent in round one I'll call him a too perfect hero compared to Rocky.

And you'd have a point if Rey had beaten Ren at the top of his game, but that isn't the case. BOWCASTER SHOT! If Creed ends up fighting another boxer with a hole through his side due to a Bowcaster, then we can make comparisons.

That's the problem which I hope you cant just ignore it and pass it off as "cherry picking" or "angry males" or "Butt hurt fans"

No, I clearly stated what was being "cherry picked". No need to repeat it a thousandth time. And you realize the "angry males" comment wasn't directed at you, and I clarified as much several times (in fact the first post I made in the thread was after reading a blatantly idiotic and sexist comment from a guy in a FB group I belong to--this is the same kind of guy who thinks Wonder Woman and the new Ghostbusters movies will suck, because women... he's pretty blatant about it). I'm sorry you keep taking everything personally.

or whatever but the fact is Heroes need to struggle heroes need to overcome and looking mad for 1 second then doing it is NOT overcoming.

Agreed. Contemplating selling a droid for food but deciding against it, OVERCOMING that selfish urge is one; another was when she gave into the fear and ran from her destiny after the visions from the lightsaber at Maz's palace. This is what I mean. You accuse her of being "perfect" continuously without that being the case. Could they have made her more vulnerable? Sure. Same can be said of Luke and Anakin too. See where I'm going with this?

So to me and others she is TOO perfect. I get shes not to you I really do but you can't ignore the fact that when things are vague or not well paced or implied or whatever people read into differently.

Absolutely. And I get it is vague and we don't have all the answers yet. Thats ok. That doesn't make it an "incomplete" movie because it didn't answer all those questions. Its intentional set up for the next film. EVERY summer blockbuster with a likely sequel does the same thing. So unless we apply that label to them all, not quite fair.

It's not "cherry picking" its opinion and you really cant compare politics to watching a film as if you do and if you only go with the facts then ok

Actually, you can. And the final decision in and of itself isn't whats cherry picked, its the evidence leading to that and the decision to intentionally and continuously minimize/maximize when convenient.

.... These 2 movies are almost the same quality http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/mighty_ducks/ http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1077027-batman_and_robin/ one is 15% one is 11% right? But i think we all know the first Mighty ducks is beloved by a lot and Batman & robin is considered one the worst films ever. That's weird to say almost same quality.

Mighty Ducks is beloved maybe by kids who grew up in the '90's. It's still a formulaic, unimaginitive, troped to death kids sports film. Most people probably don't like Mighty Ducks, though. Most people outside our generation probably view it with complete apathy, to be honest.

Also, they're both accurately rated as crappy films, thats what matters. I will give you that MD probably gets a more forgiving recall, but then again it didn't feature bat-nipples.

So looking at rey and seeing the negatives is not bad. It's just a case of the excuses are weak to people or others dont see the good. It's a film opinions is all we can give i mean if we accept only "facts"

Here's the problem. I'm not criticizing your opinion of the film, and you keep missing that, I think. I'm criticizing stuff like this:

then out dual someone who had training all the while having NO flaws is terrible

That's cherry picking. She out-dueled a severely wounded Ren, sure, but not addressing that very salient fact and making it seem like she just showed up and kicked butt isn't the case. In fact had Finn not been there to distract Ren for the 30 or so second she was knocked out, she probably would be back in Imperial restraints or dead (depending on Ren's mindset).

then fact Babe http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1065598-babe/ is better than most movies including ALL the star wars movies .....including this , New Hope and even Empire. I love babe but ... come on!

Babe is a great movie, from what I recall. I love Star Wars more, but that doesn't mean I think it outranks other films. I haven't even seen Babe in probably close to 20 years, though, so honestly can't say for sure.

 

[wyokid]

What plot holes?

There were 40 supposed ones discounted by the article. Are you confusing unresolved plot threads with plot holes

lol I'm done with this man. Argue with Mole. Clearly anything I say is not going to matter to you and I have WAY too much going on in my life right now to worry about a movie I didn't even enjoy.

 

[SSJmole]

again my point was missed, also good job ignoring the fact she is literally shown to have 0 pistol experience and han showing her saftey as luke did it (even though he talks of shooting to womp rats) and meh everyone does even though no has been so usless as to leve saftey on ........ bah but evidence and logic matter not, she's ray

i swear rey fans are as blind as the batman fans who just reply "hes batman" , maRey sue has to be defended. Also the sexist comment was as i already pointed out more others on sites. Hell the girl i reviewed the joke book with got harassed as sexist for faulting rey on one site. it's pathetic.

 

[Captain Canuck]

 

[wyokid]

That's fantastic. According the the novelization she at some point in the script she said "Luke Skywalker, please help us. You're only hope."

 

[DIrishB]

lol I'm done with this man. Argue with Mole. Clearly anything I say is not going to matter to you and I have WAY too much going on in my life right now to worry about a movie I didn't even enjoy.

Seriously? Are you really taking the "I'm too cool" for this approach? Wow.

Ironically you weren't too busy to make the claim of plot holes...

Apathy and dismissiveness are so cool!

again my point was missed,

No, it wasn't. I get your point, I just don't think you're willing to get mine.

also good job ignoring the fact she is literally shown to have 0 pistol experience and han showing her saftey as luke did it (even though he talks of shooting to womp rats)

And also, good job ignoring the fact EVERY character shoots Stormtroopers. Also, showing her where the safety is on a specific gun doesn't denote she has no experience with them. Safety locks are in different places on different model guns in the real world, perfectly logical to assume same about the SW universe.

Also, Leia also was shooting Stormtroopers in ANH... where in Ep IV did it address Leia's previous shooting experience/training? This is what I mean by cherry picking, Mole. If you're going to give Leia a pass or presume she had previous training, why is Rey different? That is a perfect example of a double standard being used, man.

And consider, Rey spent most of her life on Jakku salvaging old Imperial/Rebel equipment from ships. Do you really think she hadn't come across rifles/blasters left over from the battle in the process? Do you really think she has no experience with them? Safeties are in different spots on different weapons, Han showing here where it was there only indicates she'd never used that model before.

and meh everyone does even though no has been so usless as to leve saftey on ........ bah but evidence and logic matter not, she's ray

Point and shoot. It isn't complicated. You're acting like she was sniping Stormtroopers from miles away. Now read what I wrote above about her life on Jakku, a planet that was the site of a major battle between Empire and Rebels, and littered with old equipment as a result, from ships to likely blasters. Odds are she's shot one before.

And, again, Leia never had any mentioned training but she gets a pass? How is that logical to you? Especially since you're accusing me of not using logic or evidence in my points (which is absolutely ridiculous to the point of being untrue).

i swear rey fans are as blind as the batman fans who just reply "hes batman" , maRey sue has to be defended.

So is it ok if I label you as blind to the obvious comparisons/answers? Only fair, right?

I mean, after all, I'm at least not ignoring things to make my point. I'm trying to take an objective and undiluted view in terms of comparisons.

I've used blatant evidence from the film and logical conclusions drawn from it, so how am I blind?

Also the sexist comment was as i already pointed out more others on sites. Hell the girl i reviewed the joke book with got harassed as sexist for faulting rey on one site. it's pathetic.

The dude I am referring to from a FB group I belong to (The Wolf's Den, a play on Harvey Keitel's character from Pulp Fiction) hates women in general. He'd never admit it (bigots never really do), but he dismisses women all the time. He hated Kill Bill ("so stupidly unrealistic, a woman couldn't do that", his words). He HATED Mad Max - Fury Road with a passion due to Furiosa. Literally any time a female character isn't a shrinking violet he complains. And yes, he let loose on Rey.

So when I used the "sexist" label about that guy, I think it's apt.

That's fantastic. According the the novelization she at some point in the script she said "Luke Skywalker, please help us. You're only hope."

Kind of glad they didn't do that in film. Would have been a bit too on the nose.

 

[wyokid]

Seriously? Are you really taking the "I'm too cool" for this approach? Wow.

Ironically you weren't too busy to make the claim of plot holes...

Apathy and dismissiveness are so cool!

Read the PM I'm about to send you. That post was longer before.

 

[SSJmole]

Darth Vader calls leia a "Spy" plush she's working for the rebellion. Why would she not? Also there is no scene where she is shown to be useless with a gun. And Yes i'm calling you hypocritical as you are doing EXACTLY what your accusing of. As to you there was evidence she had training based stuff in film. She was SHOWN not understanding the safety. That's gun training 101 . NOTHING on Jakku says she used blaster in fact she used her stick. So the film all we know is she was the most usless with a blaster we have seen then out shot everyone ....... Unless she also had secret jedi shooting that kicked in but come on. That'd be like seeing a character in Fast and the furious not know about handbreak been on yet driving better than the existing characters.

There is NOTHING in that film that makes that make sense. in fact everything in it says otherwise.

 

[DIrishB]

Read the PM I'm about to send you. That post was longer before.

Ok.

Darth Vader calls leia a "Spy" plush she's working for the rebellion. Why would she not?

I didn't say she didn't, merely pointed out the double standard you're using that makes it ok for Leia but not Rey.

Also there is no scene where she is shown to be useless with a gun. And Yes i'm calling you hypocritical as you are doing EXACTLY what your accusing of.

Not at all. I'm not ignoring any evidence.

As to you there was evidence she had training based stuff in film. She was SHOWN not understanding the safety.

That is another of your statements that isn't true. Han showed her where safety was, that's it. It's never said she doesn't know how to use a blaster.

That's gun training 101 . NOTHING on Jakku says she used blaster in fact she used her stick.

Right, she KEPT her stick/bo. Probably because the blasters she might've found were more valuable to her in terms of being traded for food (something established in the movie, that she lives from day to day based on her salvages). It's entirely within the realm of possibility to expect she happened on old blasters in the littered remnants of a battlefield, tried them out or used them, and then traded them for food. It's kind of insane to think she wouldn't have, considering. Think about it. Do you really think she didn't come across a blaster/rifle or ever used one in her entire time on Jakku? Or, there's also the ample evidence of her Jedi training, entirely possible she was trained with blasters there. I know lightsabers are Jedi weapon, but I do believe Jedi were trained in a variety of fighting techniques, including blasters (uncivilized as they are ).

So the film all we know is she was the most usless with a blaster we have seen then out shot everyone .......

No, we don't. You're forcing illogical dictates to prove your point. Showing someone where a safety is doesn't equate to them never having used a blaster before. I've shot plenty guns before, but if I'm firing a model I've never used before someone is probably going to show me where safety is. Why is that unbelievable?

Unless she also had secret jedi shooting that kicked in but come on. That'd be like seeing a character in Fast and the furious not know about handbreak been on yet driving better than the existing characters.

There is NOTHING in that film that makes that make sense. in fact everything in it says otherwise.

Except her entire childhood scavenging and selling weapons and tech from the Imperial/Rebel battlefield. The fact you honestly think it's unlikely she came across a blaster, let alone used it, given her established past as a scavenger is kind of ridiculous, man.

Crashed Star Destroyer... in Mole's opinion, no blasters to be found on board. Think on that, man. It makes zero sense.

 

[SSJmole]

I never said she never found any. If she did she would have sold it. The safety is sort of a big deal as she never asked him or even looked. It's a rookie mistake thats used if you know nothing about them. You are assuming that she fired a gun but NO WHERE is that said. So yes you are ignoring facts and making wild guesses based on nothing. That is silly. Your argument boils down to NO character ever does anything bad as "meh their past covered it" NO . explain that crap as been from a military background myself as family served and I have always loved it, That is dumb. That is as dumb as someone not knowing how to use a computer just one scene later hacking perfectly with it. It doesn't say she used them , Rookie mistake , Suddenly mastered. It's all we know. ALL I have said the exact moment where she failed to grasp basic gun stuff which is fine if you have used them. Show me the exact moment where it says she has shot before and you are not just guessing or assuming or making stuff up to prove your point. Please show me..

It's not even double standard as one contradicts the other. It's like if I see a superman movie and he flys , great. If he struggles to even jump then next scene is flying around like a pro. I'd say "Wait..... did they cut a scene how the ****?" If the ONLY scene we have a fact is the one i mentioned you can NOT assume otherwise.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Someone really needs to make a gif of those stormtroopers backing away from Kylo Ren, because that's exactly how I feel every time I check this thread out and see that the debate is still going.

 

[wyokid]

Why did no one tell me about TR-8R!!?

 

[SSJmole]

I understand I tried to walk away but then the backhanded link to something then insult all our opinions while doing the same thing back started. However I do have this gif

Which was bad ass. I don't like the helmet but god damn it that scene was great

 

[wyokid]

My problem with that Star Wars article DIB posted is the same problem with the one I posted. It's condescending as hell and the writer comes off as a complete jerk. THAT is what is pissing me off the most. If you don't like the film that's fine, don't be a jerk about it. If you like the film that's fine, don't be a jerk about it. I've been in that camp this whole time. It's a freaking movie, don't be a jerk.

 

[Ice]

Someone really needs to make a gif of those stormtroopers backing away from Kylo Ren, because that's exactly how I feel every time I check this thread out and see that the debate is still going.

 

[DIrishB]

I never said she never found any. If she did she would have sold it. The safety is sort of a big deal as she never asked him or even looked. It's a rookie mistake thats used if you know nothing about them. You are assuming that she fired a gun but NO WHERE is that said. So yes you are ignoring facts and making wild guesses based on nothing. That is silly.

Its not said Leia fired a gun before either in ANH, you assume that based on Vader calling her a spy and a traitor (ignoring she was a Senator and a political spy, not Black Widow). How are you not seeing the repeated double standards you use? That's whats silly.

Your argument boils down to NO character ever does anything bad as "meh their past covered it" NO . explain that crap as been from a military background myself as family served and I have always loved it, That is dumb. That is as dumb as someone not knowing how to use a computer just one scene later hacking perfectly with it. It doesn't say she used them , Rookie mistake , Suddenly mastered. It's all we know. ALL I have said the exact moment where she failed to grasp basic gun stuff which is fine if you have used them. Show me the exact moment where it says she has shot before and you are not just guessing or assuming or making stuff up to prove your point. Please show me..

I can't believe you just compared hacking a computer to aiming and pulling a trigger. It's as simple as aim and shoot. It's not rocket science no matter what ridiculous comparisons you try to use. Any idiot can fire a gun. Learning to hack takes FAR more effort than pulling a trigger.

Also, I don't even know what you're saying here: "explain that crap as been from a military background myself as family served and I have always loved it, That is dumb."

Do you not realize the fact you're actually debating, that the cannon fodder of the SW universe (Stormtroopers), being shot by Rey is unbelievable, even though literally almost EVERY other non-Imperial character does so with ease.

I can't even believe you're taking yourself seriously with this.

It's not even double standard as one contradicts the other. It's like if I see a superman movie and he flys , great. If he struggles to even jump then next scene is flying around like a pro. I'd say "Wait..... did they cut a scene how the ****?" If the ONLY scene we have a fact is the one i mentioned you can NOT assume otherwise.

Again, it doesn't contradict anything. I very simply laid out how I've shot plenty of guns before but might need someone to show me that safety is on or where it is in new model of gun I've never shot before. Doesn't mean my aim is any different once safety is off (unless its significantly higher caliber of rounds with larger recoil).

Also, Luke was said to shoot womprats in his T-16 Skyhopper (a small ship), not with a blaster. As far as ANH shows Luke never shot a blaster before the Death star either. So, again, thats an example of a double standard being employed by you.

My problem with that Star Wars article DIB posted is the same problem with the one I posted. It's condescending as hell and the writer comes off as a complete jerk. THAT is what is pissing me off the most. If you don't like the film that's fine, don't be a jerk about it. If you like the film that's fine, don't be a jerk about it. I've been in that camp this whole time. It's a freaking movie, don't be a jerk.

I thought the article was funny.

My point, though, is largely the same. I have said so repeatedly, its not your opinion of the film that matters, its the often illogical complaints attached that are inherently rife with double standards people post as reasons. If you have to exaggerate or mislead to support your point, the point doesn't actually exist, only the exaggerated fallacy does.

Its inherently lazy, and when applied to things that actually matter, often dangerous. The negativity completely lacks in anything approaching constructive criticism. "That's dumb", "That's stupid", etc aren't constructive.

Can we stop lying and trolling in general? Rey didn't beat Ren easily, etc.

That kind of behavior is "jerk" behavior, no?

Someone really needs to make a gif of those stormtroopers backing away from Kylo Ren, because that's exactly how I feel every time I check this thread out and see that the debate is still going.

Sigh.

Seriously, if we can't debate on a comic board, whats the point?

I mean, no one is preventing you from posting something to take the thread in a new direction. By all means...

 

[wyokid]

I think now would be a good time for me to admit that I have only liked two out of the eight theatrically released Star Wars films. My love comes from growing up on it as a kid, but much like We're Back! A Dinosaur's Story I find a lot of the films hard to sit through. The Clone Wars TV series (the George Lucas one and the Genndy Tartakovsky one) got me back into Star Wars and the hype for The Force Awakens got me excited enough to get into the new canon stuff which I've enjoyed a lot of. Fact of the matter is the original trilogy are good films because of how much hard work and talent went into making it, not it's writing. The same, unfortunately, goes for the prequel trilogy as well. Whether we like it or not Lucasfilm broke new ground in CGI technology making those films. George Lucas is an artist first and a writer a second. That's why when people asked me what I thought of The Force Awakens my first reaction was to just say that "it's definitely a Star Wars film" because it's just as flawed as the rest of them. I wasn't upset about it until I came online and saw all the hate being spat from people who liked and disliked the film. I may not have enjoyed it, but at the end of the day it's just a movie, no need to be so hostile about it. I am a fan of Star Wars, I may not have the same love for it as you do, but I love it just the same. Respect that just as I've respected your's.

Fact of the matter is I'm happy it's successful because it allows people like Gareth Edwards a chance to shine. I am a huge fan of Edwards due to Monsters and then later Godzilla. Whether or not Rogue One has a good story will be up to the writers, who don't have a good track record, but with Edwards directing the film is still at least going to end up looking like the best Star Wars film to date. I'm going to post Gareth Edwards short film Factory Farmed because I can and because it shows how talented Mr. Edwards is as a film maker.

"In the UK SCI FI channel sponsors 'The SCI FI LONDON 48 HOUR FILM CHALLENGE 2008'. Entries have only 48 hours to script, shoot and edit. The requirements were - apart from the genre - a prop, one specific line of dialogue and the title. Factory Farmed is filmed by team Rebel Alliance, their prop a clear bottle with red or green liquid and the line of dialogue was: 'I am required to carry out this task until completion: your orders do not override anything.'"

[video=youtube;dvZ2GTGyE8s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvZ2GTGyE8s[/video]

 

[SSJmole]

So ignoring the fact she never asked or the fact it seemed she was unless. Show me Princess Leia or Luke ignoring a safety as they didn't know it had one and maybe it's the same other wise it's just "He's batman" of She rey of course. Plus the cannon fodder makes no sense when these are different troopers + even shot people. It boils down to you ignoring Rey's bad writing so this is pointless at this point it's talking to wall as Your going "Well ..... shooting is easy" It's not just pointing and shooting it takes skill to out gun another It's also a little insulting to people in the army to sum up all of it as "Any idiot can fire a gun." and people have lost their lives in wars for you to call them "any idiot" there is skill.


The fact is the scene was clearly showing her inexperience. I mean look at the novel. There is a scene in that where she goes to shoot Unkar Plutt and AGAIN forgets to take the safety off then when Plutt gets hostile, Chewie steps in. Both of the scenes must be there to show her lack of experience. You don't want to admit its a **** up or eve listen to actual proof then why bother? Someone they tell us in experienced at something instantly been amazing at it 2 seconds later is a bad character and bad writing. Sorry it is.

 

[DIrishB]

So ignoring the fact she never asked or the fact it seemed she was unless. Show me Princess Leia or Luke ignoring a safety as they didn't know it had one and maybe it's the same other wise it's just "He's batman" of She rey of course. Plus the cannon fodder makes no sense when these are different troopers + even shot people.

Cannon fodder description for Stormtroopers is perfectly accurate. They shoot people, yes. Do you not remember Stormtroopers shooting people in the OT (Echo Base on Hoth they shot a bunch of Rebels, and even Leia got tagged by one in RotJ)? My God your memory seems incredibly selective. Same type of Stormtroopers. Not sure if you caught it, but this movie essentially explains how they gave up on the Clones after Clone Wars (due to cost) and began conscripting children (sort of like a derp version of Spartan soldiers in Halo, I suppose) afterward. Meaning there's absolutely no difference between these Stormtroopers and the ones in the OT. So, again, nice job trying to once again move the goal posts, but other than a slight re-design in their armor, same old thing.

It boils down to you ignoring Rey's bad writing so this is pointless at this point it's talking to wall as Your going "Well ..... shooting is easy"

Now you're putting words in my mouth? Do you honestly think the same can't be said about yourself? Talking to a wall? I've repeatedly countered EVERY SINGLE criticism you've lobbed. EVERY ONE. I've shown how the same was either done in the OT or PT in some cases, or clarified the flashback scenes that imply her Jedi training, etc. I'm not just blindly throwing random crap out there.

It's not just pointing and shooting it takes skill to out gun another It's also a little insulting to people in the army to sum up all of it as "Any idiot can fire a gun." and people have lost their lives in wars for you to call them "any idiot" there is skill.

Oh please. Are you seriously trying to twist my words into an attack on the military or soldiers? You've got to be kidding me. That's completely ignorant and despicable. You know very well that wasn't even close to what I was saying and the fact you'd even try to insinuate that has made me lose all respect for you. I honestly thought you were better than that. Disgusting.

Unfortunately, what I said is true, any idiot CAN fire a gun. There are numerous cases that prove my point, of morons shooting themselves or someone else accidentally, etc. Please stop applying ridiculous and untrue blanket statements to what I'm saying. Just because any IDIOT can fire a gun, that doesn't mean I'm calling anyone who shoots a gun an idiot, least of all those in the military. Do you really not understand the difference? Seriously, you have to be kidding me. Low down, dirty approach, bro.

The fact is the scene was clearly showing her inexperience.

That scene doesn't exist in the film from what I recall.


Here's the scene from the film, line by line:

Han: (hands blaster pistol to Rey) "You might need this..."

Rey: "I think I can handle myself."

Han: "I know you do that's why I'm giving it to you. Take it."

Rey: (takes pistol and aims)

Han: "You know how to use one of those?"

Rey: "Yeah, you pull the trigger."

Han: "Little bit more to it than that. You've got a lot to learn."



So, nothing about a safety. Also, of note, the pistol certainly isn't Imperial or Rebel standard blasters (pistols or rifles). So, again, exactly what I said makes sense. Let me know when that safety scene was, I don't remember it at all. Also, notice Rey's cocky response of "Yeah, you pull the trigger."? Cocky is a character flaw, no? One Anakin definitely possessed.

I mean look at the novel. There is a scene in that where she goes to shoot Unkar Plutt and AGAIN forgets to take the safety off then when Plutt gets hostile, Chewie steps in. Both of the scenes must be there to show her lack of experience. You don't want to admit its a **** up or eve listen to actual proof then why bother? Someone they tell us in experienced at something instantly been amazing at it 2 seconds later is a bad character and bad writing. Sorry it is.

You're talking about the novelization now which I haven't read nor plan to, but if its in the novelization and not in the film, why are you complaining about the film? You should be complaining about the novelization. Either they cut that scene out or never filmed it. If its there in the film let me know around what part, as I don't remember it. Also, NOWHERE IN THE FILM did Rey pull a gun on Plutt. Where did she even get a gun on Jakku? When were her and Chewie on Jakku together? In the film Chewie (nor Han) ever set foot on Jakku, so how's he step in to help? Sounds like the novelization tells a vastly different story in some parts, if Chewie, Rey, and Plutt have a scene together. That certainly isn't in the movie and would require some reshuffling of the events of the film to make sense.

I've very logically explained how someone can have shot firearms before and not know where a safety is on a particular weapon they've never shot before. That doesn't make them inexperienced with firearms in general, only that particular model. What is it you're not getting about that? I myself have a fair amount of experience firing handguns and rifles. Yet, when my buddy let me shoot his Desert Eagle .50 Cal, a gun I'd never shot or seen before in person, guess what? He showed me where the safety was. Despite never having fired that gun before (and despite the insane recoil), I was able to center all my shots except the first (which hit upper right shoulder of target). Once I knew what to expect from recoil, no big deal. Now, considering that little blaster she had doesn't even seem to have any recoil, aiming and shooting isn't difficult.

In the film, she doesn't even get a gun until they land at Maz's palace, she finds lightsaber and runs away, gets caught by Kylo Ren, interogated, escapes, and meets up with Han, Chewie, and Finn when they attempt to blow up Starkiller base. I can only remember Rey firing her gun at the Stormtroopers just after Ren killed Han, and it was both her and Finn firing. I think it ultimately shows Rey shoot 1 Stormtrooper, from an elevated position. Not exactly difficult, man.

Also, considering that doesn't even seem to be in the movie, it doesn't even make sense for you to complain about regarding the film. If it is you let me know when/where (just the scene, I'll find it otherwise). Otherwise, aim that at the novelization.

Princess Leia or Luke didn't ignore a safety, and neither did Rey in the film. Next complaint for me to pick apart?

 

[Captain Canuck]

Perfect, Thank you