Star Wars Episode VII - The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]

[DIrishB]

My buddy and I were mocking the one that said you should give plot holes a pass because it's the first in a trilogy.

EDIT: I have now had a chance to read the article you posted and I believe it's the one he was referring to. What a joke.

What plot holes?

There were 40 supposed ones discounted by the article. Are you confusing unresolved plot threads with plot holes?

See this crap is getting old



Yeah like cherry picking the fact people said she could do same as luke had ONE instance She had LOTS in same time. That type of cherry picking? Or Pretending people haven't always said Anakin was a skit character and act like Rey is the first people hate. That type?

Or like continuously ignoring the fact Ren had been shot by a bowcaster, sure. Also, I'm not acting like Rey is the first people hate. I never said or intimated that. Please stop twisting that into something its not. I'm saying I don't get why there is a double standard applied to Rey and not Luke/Anakin in terms of their powers.

The facts are it's a film that may or may not need to explain more stuff and people wanting either more fleshing out or it seems out of no where or people saying it told them is not CHERRY PICKING that is opinion. Get the **** over this idea that everyone is picking on rey because ... what ever reason. Can't be the female thing as no one said this with :Lucy or Kill Bill , can't be the disney thing as no one is saying this about the Star Wars Rebels or people are not claiming captain phasma is.

I agree, never once did I say you couldn't have a problem with the pacing, etc. Your opinions are yours. I just don't understand how one gets a pass the other doesn't.

Also, I'm not saying there aren't strong female characters in film, so I'm not sure what Lucy or Kill Bill has to do with anything. Why do you keep acting as if I'm calling you a sexist? I'm not. Please realize that. I don't think your dislike of the film has anything to do with Rey's sex, but the whole Disney decanonizing the EU thing.

Some people like myself don't like Rey in the film. The pacing makes it seem like she pulls crap out her ass in a mary sue way. Guess what same thing I said about base kid goku in Dragonball GT. You see i am using that as example as look at Dragonball. Goku is small child with a stick who kicks ass no complains a\s we see him grow we seem fail we see him lean. Skip to GT and everything is just badly written and as result kid Goku in base form (his other forms are not as strong .... why?) is laughed at by fans.

Right, but in Dragonball GT is it implied Goku had Saiyan training (as in TFA its implied Rey had Jedi training? Either way its irrelevant.

The fact is the movie to some was full of it's self.

That's fair. Of course, as pointed out by the article I posted so are many of the reviews.

The whole death star was nothing compared to this is trying way to hard to say "Our star wars is better than Original trilogy or prequel" and when you do that more negatives get seen.

Ok, I don't get that impression at all. But to each their own.

Is Rey the worst character in a movie? No. Is as good a lead as Furiosa in fury road? NO.

Agreed. Furiosa was written far more realistically, but of course so is that entire WORLD/franchise. You're comparing a post-apocalyptic series to a space opera/fantasy series.

They made her do too many things also the Obi-wan role comment i had made in one of these was she even hangs down to avoid troops the same way.

I don't understand what you mean here.

Also Yes as i said she does TOO many things. You can say "LOLz everyone out shoots a storm trooper" But now you are ignoring facts as they hit stuff and the film had to show it, People ran from them, she picks up a gun and having had to be told about the safety showing NO experience she killed a few by outr shooting them.

So did Luke on the Death Star. Again, so what? This is what I mean by unobjectivity. If you're calling her out for this but giving Luke a pass, it literally doesn't make sense, man.

Now look at look. They explained he had shot before and all movie he was be lead to use the force by Obi. So even his death star wars not "wait what?"

Right. And maybe you've have a point if Rey had made an impossible shot at ludicrous speeds, but she didn't. She shot some Stormtroopers. Literally every "good guy" character in the SW lore has done so. How is shooting Stormtroopers unbelievable? It's what they're there for: they're cannon fodder.

Her feat of reversing a mind trick the way she did we have never seen in a film even the prequels when Jedis were in their prime.

There was a lot of stuff we didn't see Jedi do in their prime during prequels. Doesn't mean they couldn't do it. Also, don't forget, insanely high likelihood of Jedi training in Rey's past, so...

Also I know Ren was heart by a Bowcaster also the novel says killing his dad made him weaker however your ignoring the horrible pasing of how fast he got out to cut them off, the fact all he did was bang his chest. Basicly the bad acting + awkward cuts make him seem more powerful. I also don't think Ren should actually be shown beating Rey movie one. You see if they HAD to show them fight then he should. However look at a new hope or even phantom Menace , Luke never faced Vader and Anakin never faced Maul. That is better, THAT is a star wars movie tradition. Movie 1 main hero of trilogy never faces villain , Movie 2 get ass kicked , movie 3 kick ass. It's pacing it's tradition it's building.

Wait, so let me get this straight. The movie both followed or "ripped off" A New Hope too much, but also changed things too much? Is that the argument here? Also, by Star Wars tradition, Luke should've died this movie, not Han. So what?

Rey to me feels like she wont grow as much as Anakin grew

But, Anakin really didn't grow, at all, in the Prequels. He was essentially always a whiny kid, even as a 20-something adult. There was no real evolution of Anakin's character in the Prequels outside of the necessities to get him to become Darth Vader. It was all quite predictable, rote, etc.

or Luke grey as she feels too perfect. It'd be like when I see Creed. I don't care if theyu say he comes from boxing royalty or if he was trained all his life. If he KOs is main opponent in round one I'll call him a too perfect hero compared to Rocky.

And you'd have a point if Rey had beaten Ren at the top of his game, but that isn't the case. BOWCASTER SHOT! If Creed ends up fighting another boxer with a hole through his side due to a Bowcaster, then we can make comparisons.

That's the problem which I hope you cant just ignore it and pass it off as "cherry picking" or "angry males" or "Butt hurt fans"

No, I clearly stated what was being "cherry picked". No need to repeat it a thousandth time. And you realize the "angry males" comment wasn't directed at you, and I clarified as much several times (in fact the first post I made in the thread was after reading a blatantly idiotic and sexist comment from a guy in a FB group I belong to--this is the same kind of guy who thinks Wonder Woman and the new Ghostbusters movies will suck, because women... he's pretty blatant about it). I'm sorry you keep taking everything personally.

or whatever but the fact is Heroes need to struggle heroes need to overcome and looking mad for 1 second then doing it is NOT overcoming.

Agreed. Contemplating selling a droid for food but deciding against it, OVERCOMING that selfish urge is one; another was when she gave into the fear and ran from her destiny after the visions from the lightsaber at Maz's palace. This is what I mean. You accuse her of being "perfect" continuously without that being the case. Could they have made her more vulnerable? Sure. Same can be said of Luke and Anakin too. See where I'm going with this?

So to me and others she is TOO perfect. I get shes not to you I really do but you can't ignore the fact that when things are vague or not well paced or implied or whatever people read into differently.

Absolutely. And I get it is vague and we don't have all the answers yet. Thats ok. That doesn't make it an "incomplete" movie because it didn't answer all those questions. Its intentional set up for the next film. EVERY summer blockbuster with a likely sequel does the same thing. So unless we apply that label to them all, not quite fair.

It's not "cherry picking" its opinion and you really cant compare politics to watching a film as if you do and if you only go with the facts then ok

Actually, you can. And the final decision in and of itself isn't whats cherry picked, its the evidence leading to that and the decision to intentionally and continuously minimize/maximize when convenient.

.... These 2 movies are almost the same quality http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/mighty_ducks/ http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1077027-batman_and_robin/ one is 15% one is 11% right? But i think we all know the first Mighty ducks is beloved by a lot and Batman & robin is considered one the worst films ever. That's weird to say almost same quality.

Mighty Ducks is beloved maybe by kids who grew up in the '90's. It's still a formulaic, unimaginitive, troped to death kids sports film. Most people probably don't like Mighty Ducks, though. Most people outside our generation probably view it with complete apathy, to be honest.

Also, they're both accurately rated as crappy films, thats what matters. I will give you that MD probably gets a more forgiving recall, but then again it didn't feature bat-nipples.

So looking at rey and seeing the negatives is not bad. It's just a case of the excuses are weak to people or others dont see the good. It's a film opinions is all we can give i mean if we accept only "facts"

Here's the problem. I'm not criticizing your opinion of the film, and you keep missing that, I think. I'm criticizing stuff like this:

then out dual someone who had training all the while having NO flaws is terrible

That's cherry picking. She out-dueled a severely wounded Ren, sure, but not addressing that very salient fact and making it seem like she just showed up and kicked butt isn't the case. In fact had Finn not been there to distract Ren for the 30 or so second she was knocked out, she probably would be back in Imperial restraints or dead (depending on Ren's mindset).

then fact Babe http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1065598-babe/ is better than most movies including ALL the star wars movies .....including this , New Hope and even Empire. I love babe but ... come on!

Babe is a great movie, from what I recall. I love Star Wars more, but that doesn't mean I think it outranks other films. I haven't even seen Babe in probably close to 20 years, though, so honestly can't say for sure.

 

[wyokid]

What plot holes?

There were 40 supposed ones discounted by the article. Are you confusing unresolved plot threads with plot holes

lol I'm done with this man. Argue with Mole. Clearly anything I say is not going to matter to you and I have WAY too much going on in my life right now to worry about a movie I didn't even enjoy.

 

[SSJmole]

again my point was missed, also good job ignoring the fact she is literally shown to have 0 pistol experience and han showing her saftey as luke did it (even though he talks of shooting to womp rats) and meh everyone does even though no has been so usless as to leve saftey on ........ bah but evidence and logic matter not, she's ray

i swear rey fans are as blind as the batman fans who just reply "hes batman" , maRey sue has to be defended. Also the sexist comment was as i already pointed out more others on sites. Hell the girl i reviewed the joke book with got harassed as sexist for faulting rey on one site. it's pathetic.

 

[Captain Canuck]

 

[wyokid]

That's fantastic. According the the novelization she at some point in the script she said "Luke Skywalker, please help us. You're only hope."

 

[DIrishB]

lol I'm done with this man. Argue with Mole. Clearly anything I say is not going to matter to you and I have WAY too much going on in my life right now to worry about a movie I didn't even enjoy.

Seriously? Are you really taking the "I'm too cool" for this approach? Wow.

Ironically you weren't too busy to make the claim of plot holes...

Apathy and dismissiveness are so cool!

again my point was missed,

No, it wasn't. I get your point, I just don't think you're willing to get mine.

also good job ignoring the fact she is literally shown to have 0 pistol experience and han showing her saftey as luke did it (even though he talks of shooting to womp rats)

And also, good job ignoring the fact EVERY character shoots Stormtroopers. Also, showing her where the safety is on a specific gun doesn't denote she has no experience with them. Safety locks are in different places on different model guns in the real world, perfectly logical to assume same about the SW universe.

Also, Leia also was shooting Stormtroopers in ANH... where in Ep IV did it address Leia's previous shooting experience/training? This is what I mean by cherry picking, Mole. If you're going to give Leia a pass or presume she had previous training, why is Rey different? That is a perfect example of a double standard being used, man.

And consider, Rey spent most of her life on Jakku salvaging old Imperial/Rebel equipment from ships. Do you really think she hadn't come across rifles/blasters left over from the battle in the process? Do you really think she has no experience with them? Safeties are in different spots on different weapons, Han showing here where it was there only indicates she'd never used that model before.

and meh everyone does even though no has been so usless as to leve saftey on ........ bah but evidence and logic matter not, she's ray

Point and shoot. It isn't complicated. You're acting like she was sniping Stormtroopers from miles away. Now read what I wrote above about her life on Jakku, a planet that was the site of a major battle between Empire and Rebels, and littered with old equipment as a result, from ships to likely blasters. Odds are she's shot one before.

And, again, Leia never had any mentioned training but she gets a pass? How is that logical to you? Especially since you're accusing me of not using logic or evidence in my points (which is absolutely ridiculous to the point of being untrue).

i swear rey fans are as blind as the batman fans who just reply "hes batman" , maRey sue has to be defended.

So is it ok if I label you as blind to the obvious comparisons/answers? Only fair, right?

I mean, after all, I'm at least not ignoring things to make my point. I'm trying to take an objective and undiluted view in terms of comparisons.

I've used blatant evidence from the film and logical conclusions drawn from it, so how am I blind?

Also the sexist comment was as i already pointed out more others on sites. Hell the girl i reviewed the joke book with got harassed as sexist for faulting rey on one site. it's pathetic.

The dude I am referring to from a FB group I belong to (The Wolf's Den, a play on Harvey Keitel's character from Pulp Fiction) hates women in general. He'd never admit it (bigots never really do), but he dismisses women all the time. He hated Kill Bill ("so stupidly unrealistic, a woman couldn't do that", his words). He HATED Mad Max - Fury Road with a passion due to Furiosa. Literally any time a female character isn't a shrinking violet he complains. And yes, he let loose on Rey.

So when I used the "sexist" label about that guy, I think it's apt.

That's fantastic. According the the novelization she at some point in the script she said "Luke Skywalker, please help us. You're only hope."

Kind of glad they didn't do that in film. Would have been a bit too on the nose.

 

[wyokid]

Seriously? Are you really taking the "I'm too cool" for this approach? Wow.

Ironically you weren't too busy to make the claim of plot holes...

Apathy and dismissiveness are so cool!

Read the PM I'm about to send you. That post was longer before.

 

[SSJmole]

Darth Vader calls leia a "Spy" plush she's working for the rebellion. Why would she not? Also there is no scene where she is shown to be useless with a gun. And Yes i'm calling you hypocritical as you are doing EXACTLY what your accusing of. As to you there was evidence she had training based stuff in film. She was SHOWN not understanding the safety. That's gun training 101 . NOTHING on Jakku says she used blaster in fact she used her stick. So the film all we know is she was the most usless with a blaster we have seen then out shot everyone ....... Unless she also had secret jedi shooting that kicked in but come on. That'd be like seeing a character in Fast and the furious not know about handbreak been on yet driving better than the existing characters.

There is NOTHING in that film that makes that make sense. in fact everything in it says otherwise.

 

[DIrishB]

Read the PM I'm about to send you. That post was longer before.

Ok.

Darth Vader calls leia a "Spy" plush she's working for the rebellion. Why would she not?

I didn't say she didn't, merely pointed out the double standard you're using that makes it ok for Leia but not Rey.

Also there is no scene where she is shown to be useless with a gun. And Yes i'm calling you hypocritical as you are doing EXACTLY what your accusing of.

Not at all. I'm not ignoring any evidence.

As to you there was evidence she had training based stuff in film. She was SHOWN not understanding the safety.

That is another of your statements that isn't true. Han showed her where safety was, that's it. It's never said she doesn't know how to use a blaster.

That's gun training 101 . NOTHING on Jakku says she used blaster in fact she used her stick.

Right, she KEPT her stick/bo. Probably because the blasters she might've found were more valuable to her in terms of being traded for food (something established in the movie, that she lives from day to day based on her salvages). It's entirely within the realm of possibility to expect she happened on old blasters in the littered remnants of a battlefield, tried them out or used them, and then traded them for food. It's kind of insane to think she wouldn't have, considering. Think about it. Do you really think she didn't come across a blaster/rifle or ever used one in her entire time on Jakku? Or, there's also the ample evidence of her Jedi training, entirely possible she was trained with blasters there. I know lightsabers are Jedi weapon, but I do believe Jedi were trained in a variety of fighting techniques, including blasters (uncivilized as they are ).

So the film all we know is she was the most usless with a blaster we have seen then out shot everyone .......

No, we don't. You're forcing illogical dictates to prove your point. Showing someone where a safety is doesn't equate to them never having used a blaster before. I've shot plenty guns before, but if I'm firing a model I've never used before someone is probably going to show me where safety is. Why is that unbelievable?

Unless she also had secret jedi shooting that kicked in but come on. That'd be like seeing a character in Fast and the furious not know about handbreak been on yet driving better than the existing characters.

There is NOTHING in that film that makes that make sense. in fact everything in it says otherwise.

Except her entire childhood scavenging and selling weapons and tech from the Imperial/Rebel battlefield. The fact you honestly think it's unlikely she came across a blaster, let alone used it, given her established past as a scavenger is kind of ridiculous, man.

Crashed Star Destroyer... in Mole's opinion, no blasters to be found on board. Think on that, man. It makes zero sense.

 

[SSJmole]

I never said she never found any. If she did she would have sold it. The safety is sort of a big deal as she never asked him or even looked. It's a rookie mistake thats used if you know nothing about them. You are assuming that she fired a gun but NO WHERE is that said. So yes you are ignoring facts and making wild guesses based on nothing. That is silly. Your argument boils down to NO character ever does anything bad as "meh their past covered it" NO . explain that crap as been from a military background myself as family served and I have always loved it, That is dumb. That is as dumb as someone not knowing how to use a computer just one scene later hacking perfectly with it. It doesn't say she used them , Rookie mistake , Suddenly mastered. It's all we know. ALL I have said the exact moment where she failed to grasp basic gun stuff which is fine if you have used them. Show me the exact moment where it says she has shot before and you are not just guessing or assuming or making stuff up to prove your point. Please show me..

It's not even double standard as one contradicts the other. It's like if I see a superman movie and he flys , great. If he struggles to even jump then next scene is flying around like a pro. I'd say "Wait..... did they cut a scene how the ****?" If the ONLY scene we have a fact is the one i mentioned you can NOT assume otherwise.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Someone really needs to make a gif of those stormtroopers backing away from Kylo Ren, because that's exactly how I feel every time I check this thread out and see that the debate is still going.

 

[wyokid]

Why did no one tell me about TR-8R!!?

 

[SSJmole]

I understand I tried to walk away but then the backhanded link to something then insult all our opinions while doing the same thing back started. However I do have this gif

Which was bad ass. I don't like the helmet but god damn it that scene was great

 

[wyokid]

My problem with that Star Wars article DIB posted is the same problem with the one I posted. It's condescending as hell and the writer comes off as a complete jerk. THAT is what is pissing me off the most. If you don't like the film that's fine, don't be a jerk about it. If you like the film that's fine, don't be a jerk about it. I've been in that camp this whole time. It's a freaking movie, don't be a jerk.

 

[Ice]

Someone really needs to make a gif of those stormtroopers backing away from Kylo Ren, because that's exactly how I feel every time I check this thread out and see that the debate is still going.

 

[DIrishB]

I never said she never found any. If she did she would have sold it. The safety is sort of a big deal as she never asked him or even looked. It's a rookie mistake thats used if you know nothing about them. You are assuming that she fired a gun but NO WHERE is that said. So yes you are ignoring facts and making wild guesses based on nothing. That is silly.

Its not said Leia fired a gun before either in ANH, you assume that based on Vader calling her a spy and a traitor (ignoring she was a Senator and a political spy, not Black Widow). How are you not seeing the repeated double standards you use? That's whats silly.

Your argument boils down to NO character ever does anything bad as "meh their past covered it" NO . explain that crap as been from a military background myself as family served and I have always loved it, That is dumb. That is as dumb as someone not knowing how to use a computer just one scene later hacking perfectly with it. It doesn't say she used them , Rookie mistake , Suddenly mastered. It's all we know. ALL I have said the exact moment where she failed to grasp basic gun stuff which is fine if you have used them. Show me the exact moment where it says she has shot before and you are not just guessing or assuming or making stuff up to prove your point. Please show me..

I can't believe you just compared hacking a computer to aiming and pulling a trigger. It's as simple as aim and shoot. It's not rocket science no matter what ridiculous comparisons you try to use. Any idiot can fire a gun. Learning to hack takes FAR more effort than pulling a trigger.

Also, I don't even know what you're saying here: "explain that crap as been from a military background myself as family served and I have always loved it, That is dumb."

Do you not realize the fact you're actually debating, that the cannon fodder of the SW universe (Stormtroopers), being shot by Rey is unbelievable, even though literally almost EVERY other non-Imperial character does so with ease.

I can't even believe you're taking yourself seriously with this.

It's not even double standard as one contradicts the other. It's like if I see a superman movie and he flys , great. If he struggles to even jump then next scene is flying around like a pro. I'd say "Wait..... did they cut a scene how the ****?" If the ONLY scene we have a fact is the one i mentioned you can NOT assume otherwise.

Again, it doesn't contradict anything. I very simply laid out how I've shot plenty of guns before but might need someone to show me that safety is on or where it is in new model of gun I've never shot before. Doesn't mean my aim is any different once safety is off (unless its significantly higher caliber of rounds with larger recoil).

Also, Luke was said to shoot womprats in his T-16 Skyhopper (a small ship), not with a blaster. As far as ANH shows Luke never shot a blaster before the Death star either. So, again, thats an example of a double standard being employed by you.

My problem with that Star Wars article DIB posted is the same problem with the one I posted. It's condescending as hell and the writer comes off as a complete jerk. THAT is what is pissing me off the most. If you don't like the film that's fine, don't be a jerk about it. If you like the film that's fine, don't be a jerk about it. I've been in that camp this whole time. It's a freaking movie, don't be a jerk.

I thought the article was funny.

My point, though, is largely the same. I have said so repeatedly, its not your opinion of the film that matters, its the often illogical complaints attached that are inherently rife with double standards people post as reasons. If you have to exaggerate or mislead to support your point, the point doesn't actually exist, only the exaggerated fallacy does.

Its inherently lazy, and when applied to things that actually matter, often dangerous. The negativity completely lacks in anything approaching constructive criticism. "That's dumb", "That's stupid", etc aren't constructive.

Can we stop lying and trolling in general? Rey didn't beat Ren easily, etc.

That kind of behavior is "jerk" behavior, no?

Someone really needs to make a gif of those stormtroopers backing away from Kylo Ren, because that's exactly how I feel every time I check this thread out and see that the debate is still going.

Sigh.

Seriously, if we can't debate on a comic board, whats the point?

I mean, no one is preventing you from posting something to take the thread in a new direction. By all means...

 

[wyokid]

I think now would be a good time for me to admit that I have only liked two out of the eight theatrically released Star Wars films. My love comes from growing up on it as a kid, but much like We're Back! A Dinosaur's Story I find a lot of the films hard to sit through. The Clone Wars TV series (the George Lucas one and the Genndy Tartakovsky one) got me back into Star Wars and the hype for The Force Awakens got me excited enough to get into the new canon stuff which I've enjoyed a lot of. Fact of the matter is the original trilogy are good films because of how much hard work and talent went into making it, not it's writing. The same, unfortunately, goes for the prequel trilogy as well. Whether we like it or not Lucasfilm broke new ground in CGI technology making those films. George Lucas is an artist first and a writer a second. That's why when people asked me what I thought of The Force Awakens my first reaction was to just say that "it's definitely a Star Wars film" because it's just as flawed as the rest of them. I wasn't upset about it until I came online and saw all the hate being spat from people who liked and disliked the film. I may not have enjoyed it, but at the end of the day it's just a movie, no need to be so hostile about it. I am a fan of Star Wars, I may not have the same love for it as you do, but I love it just the same. Respect that just as I've respected your's.

Fact of the matter is I'm happy it's successful because it allows people like Gareth Edwards a chance to shine. I am a huge fan of Edwards due to Monsters and then later Godzilla. Whether or not Rogue One has a good story will be up to the writers, who don't have a good track record, but with Edwards directing the film is still at least going to end up looking like the best Star Wars film to date. I'm going to post Gareth Edwards short film Factory Farmed because I can and because it shows how talented Mr. Edwards is as a film maker.

"In the UK SCI FI channel sponsors 'The SCI FI LONDON 48 HOUR FILM CHALLENGE 2008'. Entries have only 48 hours to script, shoot and edit. The requirements were - apart from the genre - a prop, one specific line of dialogue and the title. Factory Farmed is filmed by team Rebel Alliance, their prop a clear bottle with red or green liquid and the line of dialogue was: 'I am required to carry out this task until completion: your orders do not override anything.'"

[video=youtube;dvZ2GTGyE8s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvZ2GTGyE8s[/video]

 

[SSJmole]

So ignoring the fact she never asked or the fact it seemed she was unless. Show me Princess Leia or Luke ignoring a safety as they didn't know it had one and maybe it's the same other wise it's just "He's batman" of She rey of course. Plus the cannon fodder makes no sense when these are different troopers + even shot people. It boils down to you ignoring Rey's bad writing so this is pointless at this point it's talking to wall as Your going "Well ..... shooting is easy" It's not just pointing and shooting it takes skill to out gun another It's also a little insulting to people in the army to sum up all of it as "Any idiot can fire a gun." and people have lost their lives in wars for you to call them "any idiot" there is skill.


The fact is the scene was clearly showing her inexperience. I mean look at the novel. There is a scene in that where she goes to shoot Unkar Plutt and AGAIN forgets to take the safety off then when Plutt gets hostile, Chewie steps in. Both of the scenes must be there to show her lack of experience. You don't want to admit its a **** up or eve listen to actual proof then why bother? Someone they tell us in experienced at something instantly been amazing at it 2 seconds later is a bad character and bad writing. Sorry it is.

 

[DIrishB]

So ignoring the fact she never asked or the fact it seemed she was unless. Show me Princess Leia or Luke ignoring a safety as they didn't know it had one and maybe it's the same other wise it's just "He's batman" of She rey of course. Plus the cannon fodder makes no sense when these are different troopers + even shot people.

Cannon fodder description for Stormtroopers is perfectly accurate. They shoot people, yes. Do you not remember Stormtroopers shooting people in the OT (Echo Base on Hoth they shot a bunch of Rebels, and even Leia got tagged by one in RotJ)? My God your memory seems incredibly selective. Same type of Stormtroopers. Not sure if you caught it, but this movie essentially explains how they gave up on the Clones after Clone Wars (due to cost) and began conscripting children (sort of like a derp version of Spartan soldiers in Halo, I suppose) afterward. Meaning there's absolutely no difference between these Stormtroopers and the ones in the OT. So, again, nice job trying to once again move the goal posts, but other than a slight re-design in their armor, same old thing.

It boils down to you ignoring Rey's bad writing so this is pointless at this point it's talking to wall as Your going "Well ..... shooting is easy"

Now you're putting words in my mouth? Do you honestly think the same can't be said about yourself? Talking to a wall? I've repeatedly countered EVERY SINGLE criticism you've lobbed. EVERY ONE. I've shown how the same was either done in the OT or PT in some cases, or clarified the flashback scenes that imply her Jedi training, etc. I'm not just blindly throwing random crap out there.

It's not just pointing and shooting it takes skill to out gun another It's also a little insulting to people in the army to sum up all of it as "Any idiot can fire a gun." and people have lost their lives in wars for you to call them "any idiot" there is skill.

Oh please. Are you seriously trying to twist my words into an attack on the military or soldiers? You've got to be kidding me. That's completely ignorant and despicable. You know very well that wasn't even close to what I was saying and the fact you'd even try to insinuate that has made me lose all respect for you. I honestly thought you were better than that. Disgusting.

Unfortunately, what I said is true, any idiot CAN fire a gun. There are numerous cases that prove my point, of morons shooting themselves or someone else accidentally, etc. Please stop applying ridiculous and untrue blanket statements to what I'm saying. Just because any IDIOT can fire a gun, that doesn't mean I'm calling anyone who shoots a gun an idiot, least of all those in the military. Do you really not understand the difference? Seriously, you have to be kidding me. Low down, dirty approach, bro.

The fact is the scene was clearly showing her inexperience.

That scene doesn't exist in the film from what I recall.


Here's the scene from the film, line by line:

Han: (hands blaster pistol to Rey) "You might need this..."

Rey: "I think I can handle myself."

Han: "I know you do that's why I'm giving it to you. Take it."

Rey: (takes pistol and aims)

Han: "You know how to use one of those?"

Rey: "Yeah, you pull the trigger."

Han: "Little bit more to it than that. You've got a lot to learn."



So, nothing about a safety. Also, of note, the pistol certainly isn't Imperial or Rebel standard blasters (pistols or rifles). So, again, exactly what I said makes sense. Let me know when that safety scene was, I don't remember it at all. Also, notice Rey's cocky response of "Yeah, you pull the trigger."? Cocky is a character flaw, no? One Anakin definitely possessed.

I mean look at the novel. There is a scene in that where she goes to shoot Unkar Plutt and AGAIN forgets to take the safety off then when Plutt gets hostile, Chewie steps in. Both of the scenes must be there to show her lack of experience. You don't want to admit its a **** up or eve listen to actual proof then why bother? Someone they tell us in experienced at something instantly been amazing at it 2 seconds later is a bad character and bad writing. Sorry it is.

You're talking about the novelization now which I haven't read nor plan to, but if its in the novelization and not in the film, why are you complaining about the film? You should be complaining about the novelization. Either they cut that scene out or never filmed it. If its there in the film let me know around what part, as I don't remember it. Also, NOWHERE IN THE FILM did Rey pull a gun on Plutt. Where did she even get a gun on Jakku? When were her and Chewie on Jakku together? In the film Chewie (nor Han) ever set foot on Jakku, so how's he step in to help? Sounds like the novelization tells a vastly different story in some parts, if Chewie, Rey, and Plutt have a scene together. That certainly isn't in the movie and would require some reshuffling of the events of the film to make sense.

I've very logically explained how someone can have shot firearms before and not know where a safety is on a particular weapon they've never shot before. That doesn't make them inexperienced with firearms in general, only that particular model. What is it you're not getting about that? I myself have a fair amount of experience firing handguns and rifles. Yet, when my buddy let me shoot his Desert Eagle .50 Cal, a gun I'd never shot or seen before in person, guess what? He showed me where the safety was. Despite never having fired that gun before (and despite the insane recoil), I was able to center all my shots except the first (which hit upper right shoulder of target). Once I knew what to expect from recoil, no big deal. Now, considering that little blaster she had doesn't even seem to have any recoil, aiming and shooting isn't difficult.

In the film, she doesn't even get a gun until they land at Maz's palace, she finds lightsaber and runs away, gets caught by Kylo Ren, interogated, escapes, and meets up with Han, Chewie, and Finn when they attempt to blow up Starkiller base. I can only remember Rey firing her gun at the Stormtroopers just after Ren killed Han, and it was both her and Finn firing. I think it ultimately shows Rey shoot 1 Stormtrooper, from an elevated position. Not exactly difficult, man.

Also, considering that doesn't even seem to be in the movie, it doesn't even make sense for you to complain about regarding the film. If it is you let me know when/where (just the scene, I'll find it otherwise). Otherwise, aim that at the novelization.

Princess Leia or Luke didn't ignore a safety, and neither did Rey in the film. Next complaint for me to pick apart?

 

[Captain Canuck]

Perfect, Thank you

 

[SSJmole]

The part you listed When he said "Little bit more to it than that. You've got a lot to learn." look at what he does he clearly takes the safety off but I suppose that never happens right you also argue nothing besides "OT and PT did it" which they didn't , or "Meh her past explained in a future movies" which does noyt justify it. I mentioned novel as it's canon and clearly both times she's not good then and crack shot. both prove her character suddenly learnt to shoot. I mean that same part you quoted "Little bit more to it than that. You've got a lot to learn." She is not an expert yet her shooting was perfect. Not one shot either multiple


She is maRey sue now and forever. It's ok for her to be a Mary Sue. I mean





No one in PT or OT were all that you keep saying it was the same name 1 in PT or who were all that in their 1st movie not luke , not anakin

 

[wyokid]

I'm starting to get to the point where I don't even want to enjoy Star Wars any more, I just want it out of my life because it's causing too much annoyance. Butthurt OT fan boys ruined it for me the first time a decade ago and it's happening again except this time I don't see a Clone Wars pulling me out of it.

 

[DIrishB]

The part you listed When he said "Little bit more to it than that. You've got a lot to learn." look at what he does he clearly takes the safety off but I suppose that never happens right

Because that doesn't happen. I literally just downloaded a damn cam version to verify, and all he does is grab her wrist and push it down (since she was aiming) when he says "little bit more to it than that".

No safety is unlocked/removed, etc. You're completely pulling that out of nowhere.

you also argue nothing besides "OT and PT did it" which they didn't , or "Meh her past explained in a future movies" which does noyt justify it.

Actually, I only compare to PT or OT to illustrate your constant habit of applying illogical double standards.

I mentioned novel as it's canon and clearly both times she's not good then and crack shot.

Tell you what. I'm going to now search for the novelization to verify, since you were completely wrong about the film itself. Also, the novelization are only partial canon (this comes from Jen Heddle herself, one of the Lucasfilm Story Group members):

"To clarify, movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie."

Considering Chewie never set foot on Jakku in the film, Rey never pulled a gun on Plutt in the film, nor did Han remove or point out a safety in the film, I'm going to follow the official stance and go with "if it didn't happen in the film, it isn't canon". Since the novel and film differentiate on that point, at least those aspects of the novel aren't canon (in much the same way certain aspects of the previous six novelizations may not be canon due to differentiation from the finished film).

both prove her character suddenly learnt to shoot.

Nope. At least the film didn't. That's what this thread is about. But if your memory of the novelization is as murky and incorrect as your memory of the film is, I consider it extremely suspect and have to check for myself.

I mean that same part you quoted "Little bit more to it than that. You've got a lot to learn." She is not an expert yet her shooting was perfect. Not one shot either multiple

I never said she was an expert. Once again you're putting words in my mouth I never said. She shot one Stormtrooper onscreen. One. Your entire point has fallen completely apart. She's not the expert marksman you're trying to make her out to be.

She is maRey sue now and forever. It's ok for her to be a Mary Sue. I mean

And yet, I've already proven why she isn't, but you go ahead and keep telling yourself that of it makes you feel better.

No one in PT or OT were all that you keep saying it was the same name 1 in PT or who were all that in their 1st movie not luke , not anakin

Anakin:

Mechanic, pilot, fluent in multiple languages, force user, all as a 10 year old kid.

Luke is moisture farmer, mechanic, pilot, crack shot/expert marksman, fluent in at least Basic and Droid, Force user.

Rey is a professional scavenger, mechanic, inherently great pilot (as a Skywalker)... however, SHE ISN'T a perfect shot (she shot 1 Stormtrooper, Landis and you literally are pulling that out of nowhere), and she's as good a lightsaber dueler as Luke... cuz he trained her.

Also, the blatantly obvious point you continually and willfully disregard (because it destroys your Mary Sue argument) is Rey was trained by Luke.

If Mara Jade isn't a Mary Sue to you, how is Rey?

I'm starting to get to the point where I don't even want to enjoy Star Wars any more, I just want it out of my life because it's causing too much annoyance. Butthurt OT fan boys ruined it for me the first time a decade ago and it's happening again except this time I don't see a Clone Wars pulling me out of it.

To be fair, I think it's inherently naive to not expect debate over nerd culture, let alone Star Wars.

More importantly, why do you let others influence you to that degree?

 

[SSJmole]

And yet, I've already proven why she isn't, but you go ahead and keep telling yourself that of it makes you feel better.

Except I and others as shown read it from those scenes. And IF the safety was not on the blaster then it's just reading or implying based on evidence of her seeming really in experienced with han. If that's not allowed then tell me exactly where in the film it says "she was trained by luke" NOT implied or something you read into as no where flat out says it. Her not been able to shoot is implied the same way you feel her all explaining all correcting training is

Anakin: Mechanic, pilot, fluent in multiple languages, force user, all as a 10 year old kid.

Not ALL like I said as not combat stuff

Luke is moisture farmer, mechanic, pilot, crack shot/expert marksman, fluent in at least Basic and Droid, Force user.

No Lightsaber dualist and the multiple languages = multiple that's not hers HOWEVER i'll allow it based on what was said (even if luke was never fluent as c3po kept translating). So still no as I said "who were all that in their 1st movie" They weren't she is more god-modded in movie 1 than either yet you won't admit that.

Also, the blatantly obvious point you continually and willfully disregard (because it destroys your Mary Sue argument) is Rey was trained by Luke.

Disregarded as that doesn't get said ever. Will it be in the sequel? Maybe. BUT that doesn't even mean it was planned as things change hell JJ recently said Han's death was added last second and it's not unheard of for writers to just go with a fan theory (see starscream shooting Megatron at the end of TF one) But if you can imply her training to disregard her force powers out her ass why can't we read it as bad with guns to expert fast? same amount of evidence. However show me the line that says "she was trained by luke" even those "memories" as you call them are called "visions" everywhere

If Mara Jade isn't a Mary Sue to you, how is Rey?

Because AGAIN she does too much , is far too liked , is far too perfect and far too good at the stuff she does. Not everyone in her first story liked Mara , she didn't best everyone at everything. To me and others Rey did.


I explained not the sexist thing which you agreed.

I said not the Disney thing as I complimented Finn , said it's not worst SW film , I even used rebels as better written than rey. Not likeing rewy or finding her to be a Mary sue would be disney IF i hadn't said they wrote better characters and complimented others.

I have even said hopefully in VIII I like her more as I also admit some of the complaints stem from bad pacing BUT that bad pacing makes her character progress way to fast to me and others.

 

[Drunken Pickle]

Not taking any sides, but when the First Order invaded Maz's, didn't Rey take out three troopers? One just outside the forest then two within the forest? My memory is a little fuzzy on that abs I'm just wondering.

 

[DIrishB]

Except I and others as shown read it from those scenes. And IF the safety was not on the blaster then it's just reading or implying based on evidence of her seeming really in experienced with han. If that's not allowed then tell me exactly where in the film it says "she was trained by luke" NOT implied or something you read into as no where flat out says it. Her not been able to shoot is implied the same way you feel her all explaining all correcting training is

Here's the thing. When you watch the film and scene again, you'll see that isn't the case. I literally watched it and transcribed it word for word, there is no mention of a safety, Han never touches, presses, flicks, or anything to acknowledge, point out, or turn off the safety. All he does is push her wrist (he very clearly grabs her wrist, not the gun) and pushes it down. That's it. You literally completely made up the safety thing, or Landis did, but it didn't happen! The only time she turned off the safety was when she was by herself, before firing on Stormtroopers.

As for her training, you and I both know it was heavily implied. Multiple times, from her abilities to her flashbacks of witnessing Ren's betrayal/slaughter at Luke's school.

The info is all there in the film, you just refuse to accept it because it wasn't explicitly laid out and would refute your Mary Sue label.

Not ALL like I said as not combat stuff



No Lightsaber dualist and the multiple languages = multiple that's not hers HOWEVER i'll allow it based on what was said (even if luke was never fluent as c3po kept translating). So still no as I said "who were all that in their 1st movie" They weren't she is more god-modded in movie 1 than either yet you won't admit that.

But that's the thing. Anakin nor Luke were trained in the ways of the Jedi in their first films. Rey was.

So Rey isn't an overpowered Mary Sue, she's just trained at the appropriate age to begin Jedi training (as a young kid) whereas Anakin was a bit too old, and Luke way too old.

There were two reasons for the vision Rey had: to establish why there were no Jedi (Ren killed them all except Luke and Rey, and Rey was only a Padawan), and to establish Rey witnessed that slaughter and was there... because she was being trained as a Jedi.

Disregarded as that doesn't get said ever. Will it be in the sequel? Maybe.

It wasn't said, no, because they want to reveal it in the sequel. You know this. It was heavily implied and laid out by her visions.

BUT that doesn't even mean it was planned as things change

Of course they do. But again I doubt the safety scene you're talking about is even in the novelization. I think you're m misinterpreting something you read online about the novelization.

hell JJ recently said Han's death was added last second

That isn't true, though. Harrison Ford wouldn't even sign on to come back unless Han died (that was one of his contract stipulations). So, no, they didn't decide last minute to kill off Han. Maybe the manner in which it happened, but Han was always meant to die as soon as Harrison was going to come back. And that was at least 6 months before filming even began. I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but that is absolutely incorrect.

and it's not unheard of for writers to just go with a fan theory (see starscream shooting Megatron at the end of TF one)

But if you can imply her training to disregard her force powers out her ass why can't we read it as bad with guns to expert fast? same amount of evidence. However show me the line that says "she was trained by luke" even those "memories" as you call them are called "visions" everywhere

Lol, so now it has to be dialogue only? Wow. Keeps on moving the goalposts. And yes, they're called visions even though they explicitly show Rey as a kid being left on Jakku with Plutt. So all the rest are visions except that one memory? No. That's unlikely and the exact opposite of Occam's Razor approach.

Her Force training is implied specifically through what you deem as Mary Sue stuff. I deem it as proof of her previous Jedi training, which her visions/memories back up.

And when Episode VIII comes out, my theory will be vindicated. It already is simply by objectively watching TFA instead of looking for reasons to hate it. Her abilities, her visions, it's obvious, man!

Besides, the scriptwriters (especially Arndt) aren't going to add that visions scene in for no reason. The whole point of it being there was to give a non-committal hint/explanation of her past/abilities.

But that's the thing, unlike Anakin or Luke, Rey's past before Jakku is a mystery. It's intended to be (not knowing her parents), specifically to set up the reveal in the next film. But this film gave us plenty of evidence already without outright spelling it out.

I swear, they even could've revealed her past and you'd then complain they should have waited, that they revealed it "too soon", etc.

Because AGAIN she does too much ,

So does Mara. Why is it ok for Mara?

is far too liked ,

So was Luke. Double standards again.

is far too perfect

Despite her blatant character flaws displayed that I have covered multiple times, but you go ahead and keep ignoring them because they don't support your assertions.

and far too good at the stuff she does. Not everyone in her first story liked Mara , she didn't best everyone at everything. To me and others Rey did.

Even though it takes dismissing large amounts of evidence and apparently completely pull stuff out of nowhere (like the completely made up "safety" scene that you claimed happen but didn't) to come to that conclusion.

I explained not the sexist thing which you agreed.

I said not the Disney thing as I complimented Finn , said it's not worst SW film , I even used rebels as better written than rey. Not likeing rewy or finding her to be a Mary sue would be disney IF i hadn't said they wrote better characters and complimented others.

I have even said hopefully in VIII I like her more as I also admit some of the complaints stem from bad pacing BUT that bad pacing makes her character progress way to fast to me and others.

And that's fine. That's fair. As I've repeatedly said, your opinion of the film doesn't matter to me. I'm not trying to get you to like it.

I just wish you wouldn't blatantly lie about things that didn't happen (Han showing Rey the safety when that never happened, Rey easily beating Ren when she didn't, Finn holding his own against a Sith Lord when in reality even the severely wounded Sith Lord was playing with him and sliced him open after 30 seconds, Rey being an expert marksman when she shot a few Stormtroopers, writing off Rey's memories--which they clearly are given her memory of being left on Jakku, there's no debate there--when they clearly indicate her Jedi training, etc).

You literally are having to lie or twist things to make your failed point. Landis does the same with his lie about the blaster safety Han had to show her that you believed without actually researching it. It didn't happen. She turned off safety herself without anyone there or showing her how. Seems to indicate she knew how to turn it off, just forgot the safety was on.

This has been my point all along. If you don't like the movie, fine. But why lie about it? Why exaggerate things to the point they are no longer true or applicable? THAT has been what I'm saying: just stop lying/exaggerating/relying on hyperbole and objectively view/discuss the issues we've been discussing.

Whatever. Episode VIII will firmly prove you wrong. And Max Landis is the epitome of the description applied in that article I posted. That does fit him perfectly: someone desperate for attention who uses negativity to get it through social media.

Not taking any sides, but when the First Order invaded Maz's, didn't Rey take out three troopers? One just outside the forest then two within the forest? My memory is a little fuzzy on that abs I'm just wondering.

You're right. Just checked.

She sees the first Stormtrooper and tries to fire, and THAT'S when SHE notices the safety is on. Han isn't even there. She's completely alone with BB-8. ST sees her and fires first at her and misses. She immediately turns off safety, and fires, missing the trooper with first shot. She fires again and then hits him with second shot.

Then there is a quick shot of her looking at her blaster with incredulity, like she couldn't believe she hit him. Seems to indicate the whole Jedi power/training resurfacing thing.

She then turns and shoots one more Stormtrooper coming out of Maz's palace, another shoots at her and she runs to take cover (so she was indeed taking cover despite Mole's claims she didn't). Stormtrooper keeps firing as she runs, missing her (because all Stormtroopers are crappy shots apparently). She then shoots third Stormtrooper who'd been chasing her and sends BB-8 away to prevent him from being captured.

Then Ren shows up. She fires at him multiple times, missing numerous times, having a few shots deflected by his lightsaber.

So, in reality, no better shot than anyone in the previous SW films. Using the ability to shoot Stormtroopers as evidence of being overpowered when literally every non-Imperial character in the SW mythos has done so is ridiculous.

 

[SSJmole]

Why exaggerate things to the point they are no longer true or applicable? THAT has been what I'm saying: just stop lying/exaggerating/relying on hyperbole and objectively view/discuss the issues we've been discussing.

Oh You mean like you claiming it was one trooper she shot :wink: right? Which Drunken Pickle even said was three

Whatever. Episode VIII will firmly prove you wrong. And Max Landis is the epitome of the description applied in that article I posted. That does fit him perfectly: someone desperate for attention who uses negativity to get it through social media.

Not really he was already through with "wrestling isn't wrestling" this was just his opinion which he can't have or gets labelled as "desperate for attention" Why because it's not YOUR view?

So, in reality, no better shot than anyone in the previous SW films. Using the ability to shoot Stormtroopers as evidence of being overpowered when literally every non-Imperial character in the SW mythos has done so is ridiculous.

again ignoring these are different troopers who actually hit stuff. Plus You keep miissing the point of you can NOT bec good at everything or loved by all and no Luke wasn't as Han had to grow to like him over the course of the movie he grew to like Rey in like 5 minutes of screen time together. Luke also stumbled trying to saber the first time. I also get you believe in the miracle training, I don't. And even if it's true using that as an exuse to allow her to be great at everything is pretty much this :



Only not played for laughs. She is Rey she has the power to have all skills! ...... and that's good to you?

 

[DIrishB]

Oh You mean like you claiming it was one trooper she shot :wink: right? Which Drunken Pickle even said was three

This is what I mean. I forgot and literally explicitly laid out exactly what happened once I'd double checked. I haven't lied or exaggerated about a thing in this debate, nor in any I have, as it weakens the stance you're trying to defend. If you have to lie or exaggerate, it's a sure bet the point you're arguing doesn't stand well on its own two legs. And when your opponent has to rely on twisting words to paint you as hating the military or some other ridiculous approach, instead of relying on the relevant and actual facts available, as you did to me, that speaks loudly about how unsure you are in your own convictions about the film.

I didn't lie or knowingly mislead, so cut that crap out.

Not really he was already through with "wrestling isn't wrestling" this was just his opinion which he can't have or gets labelled as "desperate for attention" Why because it's not YOUR view?

No, because he claimed she was an expert marksman like she'd been sniping Stormtroopers from miles away. Shooting 3 Stormtroopers in the film doesn't qualify as overpowered or an expert with a blaster or evidence of it. How many did Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie each individually shoot on the Death Star alone in ANH? This is yet another example of your continuous reliance on double standards in this debate.

It's also inherently a weak argument, due to the very blatant reasons I just listed, and you know it. Landis should too, as he's a smart guy. I would hope maybe he forgot details like I did, except one would think before making such a post he'd actually know what he's talking about. Guess not in that case, though.

again ignoring these are different troopers who actually hit stuff.

Troopers shot people in OT too (Echo Base on Hoth, Leia and other Rebel commandos on Endor in RotJ). We've already covered this ground, and I laid out exactly how these troopers are no different to the ones on the OT. You keep claiming that when it isn't the case. That's what I mean about exaggerating and lying to make a falsified point.

To recap: same exact troopers. No difference whatsoever.

So, let's stop with that claim. Same troopers. I see no distinction between the Stormtroopers used on Hoth and Endor than the ones used in TFA. How you do is what I'm asking. How are you able to intentionally ignore the vast amount killed on Hoth (by Stormtroopers) or Endor (by Stormtoopers)? This is what I mean by illogical points, man.

There is nothing in the film, or the new EU stuff (novels, comics, video games) that illustrates ANY difference between Stormtroopers in TFA era and OT era. Absolutely none, other than a slight costume redesign.

Same recruitment process, same training, etc. In fact the Before the Awakening prequel book that focuses on what Rey, Finn, and Poe are up to not long before the film focuses on Finn's training. No mention made of it being any different than those of the OT Stormtroopers. Absolutely nothing.

So, again, completely invalid point that you're pulling out of nowhere.

Plus You keep miissing the point of you can NOT bec good at everything or loved by all

But she's not good at everything. She's just good at Jedi related stuff and combat because she had training, and good with tech because she spent her entire childhood salvaging it. I mean, the entire point of the flashbacks was to establish Rey's past (however minimally to keep the audience guessing) and the fact she witnessed Ren's betrayal at Luke's academy.

and no Luke wasn't as Han had to grow to like him over the course of the movie he grew to like Rey in like 5 minutes of screen time together.

Probably because Rey is his niece, dude. He didn't know Luke from a rock in ANH, but he knows Rey is his niece, hence him offering her a job and the pained look on Han's face when Rey explains she can't accept because she has to go back to Jakku to wait for her parents (which Han knows isn't going to happen since Luke is in exile).

Luke also stumbled trying to saber the first time.

Right, but Luke also had never been trained with a saber before like Rey obviously was (those flashbacks are there for a reason).

I also get you believe in the miracle training, I don't.

Of course you don't, because then your entire debate goes out the window. So you'll keep your mind made up despite the evidence in TFA (namely the flashbacks and Rey's abilities), right up until Episode VIII is released and then you'll have to admit you're wrong, but do so begrudgingly and criticize Episode VIII for whatever reason...

And even if it's true using that as an exuse to allow her to be great at everything is pretty much this :

Nevermind, you're already starting with the Episode VIII criticism.

Only not played for laughs. She is Rey she has the power to have all skills! ...... and that's good to you?

Nope. She just has the skills most trained Jedi do, because she's been trained as a Jedi.

So unless you're applying that to every Jedi, it's a double standard.

And with that, I'm done. We're just going back and forth saying the same stuff over and over.

I already know you'll hate Episode VIII, too. I might too, but at least I'll do so objectively and not have my decision colored by the old EU being made non-canon.

 

[SSJmole]

and I admitted

IF the safety was not on the blaster then it's just reading or implying based on evidence of her seeming really in experienced with han

Like I said when he touched I gun I thought of. So I admit i was wrong and I even said the language thing makes sense when as TOG and the guide says she learnt it to trade. YOU said it's cause she knows chewie. BUT I get something wrong and it's "lie or exaggerate" You get something wrong and it's "I didn't lie or knowingly mislead" stop the hypocritical BS

I never "knowingly" lied ect... either of course that doesn't suit your case of everyone who has an issue with Rey is lying or double standard (something you have been also as I pointed out then)

I never Insulted Episode VIII I only insulted what she did as you literally quoted "all skills!" I'm not insulting VIII I'm Insulting her doing EVERYTHING in one mobie. You say "every Jedi, it's a double standard." But as i mentioned not Luke , not anakin , Not Obi , Not Qui Jinn or any others did as much as her in their first movie. You pass it off as "ohhhh but she was trained" so was Qui-Gon and Obi they didnt do as much. "Well shes a skywalker" So is Luke and Anakin they didnt do as much in one one film. THERE CAN BE NO DOUBLE STANDARD IF THEY WERE NOT THE SAME. No one is complaining Rey is a dumb kid like they did Anakin. Is that double standard? NO as shes not a kid and they didnt do as much"


The problem is people feel she was OP and did too much. There is no set amount someone can do or a set amount of power some one can have so you cant say someone is wrong for feeling she's a Mary Sue i.e Overpowered , Overly good at things and overly liked. In this film she is. Also talk about twisting words? This double standards "for wittle rey " and "Now your hating VIII" is doing just that as again the words under pictures explained "Only not played for laughs. She is Rey she has the power to have all skills! " That's clearly this film unless you have seen VIII and know how everything is treated, I don't and i'm not going to judge it till it came out. I am just judging MaRey Sue.

 

[DIrishB]

I said I presumed it was from her knowing Chewie, due to her past training under Luke (presumably she'd know her uncle Han's co-pilot). But again, thanks for once again putting words in my mouth.

And it is a lie or exaggeration when it's repeatedly claimed by you (like Rey easily beating Ren) when it's not the case, and I repeatedly pointed that out, yet you kept claiming Rey beat Ren no problem. So, yeah, that qualifies as a lie or exaggeration. Also, the claim she did "everything in one movie" is another example of the lie/exaggeration/hyperbole I'm speaking of. You also claim she did more than everyone, except Luke blew up a Death Star in his first film, Anakin (as a 10 year old kid) blew up a Trade Federation command ship, etc. Again, THAT claim you keep making isn't true. At best it's a grossly inaccurate blanket statement, or a simple lie since you know better.

But seriously,, I don't care anymore. Told you I'm done with this debate. It's going nowhere.