The Pen & Paper RPG Thread

[Jaggyd]

I used to play a weekly Shadowrun game, that group I was part of also did; D&D (2nd ed), Earthdawn, Call of C'Thulhu, Marvel RPG, DC Heroes (West End Games), and Rifts.


My current group has a Changeling game going (Jane and I are both playing Fairest, she a Blooming Spring Court, me a Bright One Summer Court), we're also playing; D&D (3rd ed), Exalted and Scion.

 

[Lynx]

I used to play White Wolf all the time. I have **** loads of their books. Big fan of Vampire. I think the best game I ever played was a Hunter game where I managed to have the players not meet up for the first three sessions. It was a really powerful game.

Wish I knew how I did that. :?

I only really played Vampire and Hunter in the old World of Darkness. It's what really got me into roleplaying (And D&D 3rd). But, I much prefer the new World of Darkness. The customization for the storyteller (GM) is just awesome. Especially some of the newer games, like Promethean and Changeling.

And they're remaking Hunter next year.

My current group has a Changeling game going (Jane and I are both playing Fairest, she a Blooming Spring Court, me a Bright One Summer Court), we're also playing; D&D (3rd ed), Exalted and Scion.

I'm going to assume you're talking about Changeling: The Lost and not Dreaming (By the wordage).

If so, :rockon: for that, Exalted and Scion. All excellent games.

Either way, you both have excellent taste. I love me some White-Wolf. 8)

 

[Jaggyd]

I'm going to assume you're talking about Changeling: The Lost and not Dreaming (By the wordage).

I'll tell you now, it took a LOT to get the Girl Wonder to convince me to even give The Lost a chance, I was at first totally against the idea of not playing true Fae. After reading the core book, twice, cover to cover, I apologized and joined her Troupe.


PS: I got The Call, I've been commissioned to do two pieces for White Wolf. Both are for an upcoming Exalted source book. Will post details as they become available.

 

[Lynx]

I'll tell you now, it took a LOT to get the Girl Wonder to convince me to even give The Lost a chance, I was at first totally against the idea of not playing true Fae. After reading the core book, twice, cover to cover, I apologized and joined her Troupe.

That's good to hear. Lost is an excellent game. I'm writing a crossover game and my girlfriend was very intrigued about Changelings, so I picked it up. It's quite awesome, and the True Fae and fetches make excellent antagonists. So good, in fact, they and a cabal of mages are the prime antagonists of my campaign.

PS: I got The Call, I've been commissioned to do two pieces for White Wolf. Both are for an upcoming Exalted source book. Will post details as they become available.

That's awesome! You'll have to tell me what book. I haven't gotten quite caught up in Exalted yet, unlike WoD and Scion, so I'll have to pick up whatever book you're in when it comes out even if I'm still behind.

 

[Bass]

I only really played Vampire and Hunter in the old World of Darkness. It's what really got me into roleplaying (And D&D 3rd). But, I much prefer the new World of Darkness. The customization for the storyteller (GM) is just awesome. Especially some of the newer games, like Promethean and Changeling.

How so?

I've not read or tried the newer WoD. The rules system seems slicker, but I'm not particularly interested in a new world to base a campaign in. :?

PS: I got The Call, I've been commissioned to do two pieces for White Wolf. Both are for an upcoming Exalted source book. Will post details as they become available.

Congratulations!

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Awesome Skotti

I played a MAge game awhile back. We were part of the technocracy, and my character was a half angle and half demon clone. IT was awesome, in almost every adventure I ended up getting killed, only to show up inexplicably in the next adventure. It got to the point where people would say we need to get out of here before Houde dies!

Finally, we figured out what was going on (The Antichrist was born, and we were trying to find him and kill him). My character's day job was a foster home pyschologist. So basically, I had found the Antichrist, and had spent the whoel game time trying to throw the others off, because he remnded me of myself. Turned out it was one of my clones, an dI sucessfully fought everyone else off in my party (I was a Mind.Entropy genius), and let the Antichrist end Earth as we know it.

Oh yeah, I ruled.

 

[Lynx]

How so?

I've not read or tried the newer WoD. The rules system seems slicker, but I'm not particularly interested in a new world to base a campaign in. :?

Well, the rules help. As for a new world. . .well, I'm not sure you could even call it that. There are various setting pieces, like information on the Clans (For Vampire) and such, but there's no set world. No metaplot like in the old WoD. You take the various Clans, organizations, and basic societal knowledge of whichever supernatural you're playing with and build your world, not just the story.

Basically, you no longer have to live within the established plot of the old WoD. You basically create everything with the rules they give you. So, I guess it depends on what you like. Did you like playing within the world you were given? Or do you like to create your own worlds?

Awesome Skotti

I played a MAge game awhile back. We were part of the technocracy, and my character was a half angle and half demon clone. IT was awesome, in almost every adventure I ended up getting killed, only to show up inexplicably in the next adventure. It got to the point where people would say we need to get out of here before Houde dies!

Finally, we figured out what was going on (The Antichrist was born, and we were trying to find him and kill him). My character's day job was a foster home pyschologist. So basically, I had found the Antichrist, and had spent the whoel game time trying to throw the others off, because he remnded me of myself. Turned out it was one of my clones, an dI sucessfully fought everyone else off in my party (I was a Mind.Entropy genius), and let the Antichrist end Earth as we know it.

Oh yeah, I ruled.

I never played the original Mage, but I've read about it and it was pretty deep. The new one is pretty good, except the setting backdrop is Atlantis. . .which is a bit cliche. And no more Technocracy or Super Science.

Promethean is an awesome supplement for weird science games in the new WoD, though. You play a created being, ala Frankenstein's Monster and Golems, and there's all kinds of mad scientist moments, from creatures created as a byproduct of nuclear blasts, to clones, to creating more creatures like yourself, to ****ing up and creating abominations and aberrations.

God, I must sound like a new WoD fanboy. It is really quite good, though. I'm just sad a lot of people don't get into it since they're still attached to the old WoD.

 

[Jaggyd]

I never played the original Mage, but I've read about it and it was pretty deep. The new one is pretty good, except the setting backdrop is Atlantis. . .which is a bit cliche. And no more Technocracy or Super Science.

Promethean is an awesome supplement for weird science games in the new WoD, though. You play a created being, ala Frankenstein's Monster and Golems, and there's all kinds of mad scientist moments, from creatures created as a byproduct of nuclear blasts, to clones, to creating more creatures like yourself, to ****ing up and creating abominations and aberrations.

God, I must sound like a new WoD fanboy. It is really quite good, though. I'm just sad a lot of people don't get into it since they're still attached to the old WoD.

I totally agree, Atlantis is far overused. I miss the war between Wonder and Conformity.

 

[Lynx]

I totally agree, Atlantis is far overused. I miss the war between Wonder and Conformity.

Awakening is the only new WoD game that didn't improve over the original, I think. I mean, I like Awakening. It's got that Matrix feel, what with Reality vs the Supernal, and the magic system is awesome, but I think Ascension was a better setting. I mean, Super Science was pretty cool. I felt the Technocracy was a little too important in the grand scheme of things, but it was a neat concept.

I wish we could have the system of Awakening with the setting of Ascension. That would be the perfect Mage game.

 

[Bass]

Well, the rules help. As for a new world. . .well, I'm not sure you could even call it that. There are various setting pieces, like information on the Clans (For Vampire) and such, but there's no set world. No metaplot like in the old WoD. You take the various Clans, organizations, and basic societal knowledge of whichever supernatural you're playing with and build your world, not just the story.

Basically, you no longer have to live within the established plot of the old WoD. You basically create everything with the rules they give you. So, I guess it depends on what you like. Did you like playing within the world you were given? Or do you like to create your own worlds?

Both.

I never had a problem with the metaplot in the old WoD. I loved it because it gave me ideas on how to use it. I also thought the Gehenna and Apocalypse (and the rest) were great in how they let you pay off the metaplot. I always felt they gave a very deep, entrenched world, then gave you the tools to modify it as you want.

A particularly loose setting makes me wonder why I'd care. If it's about creating my own worlds, then I don't need to buy a book. My current game I'm gearing up to run is my own crazy world with bizarre histories and what not. But if I'm not looking to world build so fully, then I'd turn to WoD.

I like to do both.

And no more Technocracy or Super Science.

Promethean is an awesome supplement for weird science games in the new WoD, though. You play a created being, ala Frankenstein's Monster and Golems, and there's all kinds of mad scientist moments, from creatures created as a byproduct of nuclear blasts, to clones, to creating more creatures like yourself, to ****ing up and creating abominations and aberrations.

God, I must sound like a new WoD fanboy. It is really quite good, though. I'm just sad a lot of people don't get into it since they're still attached to the old WoD.

I'm afraid I fall a bit into that category. That and I still haven't fully used my older WoD books and so I don't see the point in buying all these books I'll never use.

Also - no Technocracy?!!?!? :cry:

Awakening is the only new WoD game that didn't improve over the original, I think. I mean, I like Awakening. It's got that Matrix feel, what with Reality vs the Supernal, and the magic system is awesome, but I think Ascension was a better setting. I mean, Super Science was pretty cool. I felt the Technocracy was a little too important in the grand scheme of things, but it was a neat concept.

I wish we could have the system of Awakening with the setting of Ascension. That would be the perfect Mage game.

What's so great about the Magic system? And how is Awakening different to Ascension? (Please tell me you're exaggerating with them ripping off THE MATRIX.)

 

[Lynx]

Both.

I never had a problem with the metaplot in the old WoD. I loved it because it gave me ideas on how to use it. I also thought the Gehenna and Apocalypse (and the rest) were great in how they let you pay off the metaplot. I always felt they gave a very deep, entrenched world, then gave you the tools to modify it as you want.

A particularly loose setting makes me wonder why I'd care. If it's about creating my own worlds, then I don't need to buy a book. My current game I'm gearing up to run is my own crazy world with bizarre histories and what not. But if I'm not looking to world build so fully, then I'd turn to WoD.

I like to do both.

Hmmmm, how can I explain it.They give you a world, but no plot. I'll use Vampire as an example. There's clans, covenants (Vampire sects, so to speak. Like smaller versions of the Camarilla and Sabat), a society, and a sense of isolation. Each city is, in effect, cut off from other cities for Vampires, so each city has it's own feudal government, with a Prince who rules and gives out "land" to advisers and allies. There's no metaplot, though. So, they give you the setting without the plot.

So, if you liked the metaplot, you'll probably like oWoD better. If you just want a setting to use for your own plots without restrictions, then nWoD is the way to go. I never really liked the metaplot. I felt like I was running someone else's game rather than my own. But, it is a personal decision. There's a lot of hostility and skepticism towards nWoD from oWoD players.

I'm afraid I fall a bit into that category. That and I still haven't fully used my older WoD books and so I don't see the point in buying all these books I'll never use.

Also - no Technocracy?!!?!? :cry:

Understandable. It is a great alternative, though, if you're looking for something different. And I absolutely recommend Werewolf, Changeling and Promethean, even to someone like yourself that still enjoys the old WoD. Werewolf: The Forsaken improves on Apocalypse in every way imaginable. No more eco-terrorists, now you're a pack hunter that hunts spirits, possessed hosts, and Lovecraftian horrors while defending your territory and pack from evil, brutal werewolves that call themselves the Pure. Changeling: The Lost is also much more Grimm Fairy Tales than the Disney movie tone of Changeling: The Dreaming. Finally, Promethean is completely new. There is no old World of Darkness equivalent and I'd highly recommend it to even old players.

As for Vampire and Mage. . .well, Vampire: The Requiem is very similar to Vampire: The Masquarade. There are no more Antediluvians, as there are restrictions of Vampires becoming too powerful and there's really no equivilant to the Sabbat (Although VII, vampires who hunt vampires, and Belial's Brood, devil-worshipping vampires, are both good substitutes), most everything else is the same. There are fewer clans (Some become "sub clans" called Bloodlines, others were merged together), as well. I can't really recommend Requiem over Masquarade or visa versa because they're both equally good.

As for Mage. . .

What's so great about the Magic system? And how is Awakening different to Ascension? (Please tell me you're exaggerating with them ripping off THE MATRIX.)

The magic system is incredibly flexible. Creating your own spells is a cinch, too, with the tools they give you in the book. You'd probably have to look at Awakening yourself to pass judgement.

As for the differences. . .well, gone is the Magic versus Science theme. Gone is Wonder versus Conformity. Reality vs True Reality is the big theme now, as is Wisdom versus Hubris. Basically, way back when. . .Atlantis. . .existed, it was a Mage city and the Mages there wielded fantastic power. Eventually, however, their Hubris got the better of them, and they built a Ladder to what is basically Mage Heaven, where magic is pure and unending and the Mages shape reality at their whim, called the Supernal World. Some of the Mages went power crazy and started a war with the other Mages, which tore reality in two, separating our world (The Fallen World) and the Supernal. It created a third place between them, called the Abyss, which devours everything. This is what creates Paradox in Awakening.

This is also where the Matrix comparison comes in. The Abyss devours magic and, when Mages of the Fallen World use magic, reality backlashes and creates tears into the Abyss. The Abyss created the Lie, which is what makes it so regular humans (Called Sleepers) can't use, and why they don't believe in, magic.

Anyway, now the Mages power was limited without direct access to the Supernal. The few good Mages still in the Supernal built watchtowers for Mage's spirits could come to access their power again (Since the Abyss was blocking their way physically). Now, most Mages seek to awaken as much of humanity to magic as possible so Paradox will no longer exist and they can Ascend to the Supernal.

Again, Mage is the hardest new game to recommend. It's very good, but it's very hard to compare to Ascension.

 

[Bass]

So, if you liked the metaplot, you'll probably like oWoD better. If you just want a setting to use for your own plots without restrictions, then nWoD is the way to go. I never really liked the metaplot. I felt like I was running someone else's game rather than my own.

I never understood that criticism. To me, it was like running a Marvel Universe game - when do you set it? Before or after SECRET WARS? Do you want the heroes involved in SECRET WARS? EARTH X? The Ultimate universe?

I have a friend who also complains about the metaplot, but I never, ever, understood the criticism. I doubt I've ever used it beyond choosing an 'era' in which to set the game (such as, are the Gangrel part of the Camarilla or not).

But, it is a personal decision. There's a lot of hostility and skepticism towards nWoD from oWoD players.

I have none of the former, but I have some of the latter.

Finally, Promethean is completely new. There is no old World of Darkness equivalent and I'd highly recommend it to even old players.

It does sound very cool.

As for Vampire and Mage. . .well, Vampire: The Requiem is very similar to Vampire: The Masquarade. There are no more Antediluvians, as there are restrictions of Vampires becoming too powerful and there's really no equivilant to the Sabbat (Although VII, vampires who hunt vampires, and Belial's Brood, devil-worshipping vampires, are both good substitutes), most everything else is the same. There are fewer clans (Some become "sub clans" called Bloodlines, others were merged together), as well. I can't really recommend Requiem over Masquarade or visa versa because they're both equally good.

When I took a look at Requiem I thought of it as Ultimate Masquerade. One of the problems with Masquerade was the idea that most Camarilla kindred don't believe the Antediluvians are real - yet every player knows they are. I think that's why there's no history to Vampire; they wanted to allow players to come up with their own reasons for why Vampires exist. Which is fair enough, I suppose.

The magic system is incredibly flexible. Creating your own spells is a cinch, too, with the tools they give you in the book. You'd probably have to look at Awakening yourself to pass judgement.

Will do.

Most likely, next time I run WoD I'll use the new rules and combine the two settings.

 

[Lynx]

I never understood that criticism. To me, it was like running a Marvel Universe game - when do you set it? Before or after SECRET WARS? Do you want the heroes involved in SECRET WARS? EARTH X? The Ultimate universe?

I have a friend who also complains about the metaplot, but I never, ever, understood the criticism. I doubt I've ever used it beyond choosing an 'era' in which to set the game (such as, are the Gangrel part of the Camarilla or not).

Well, that's kind of how this is. Rather than choosing an era, you create the era. oWoD would take the story of the Marvel Universe and you'd drop your players right into the action. nWoD would take the characters and setting of the Marvel Universe, and you create your own plot. Maybe the Golden and Silver Ages happened, but everything you do in Modern times, you create yourself.

For example, in Vampire, the Camarilla existed during the Roman Empire. Once the Empire fell, so did the Camarilla (And split into two factions). However, from then on, history is basically yours to shape. There's a backdrop, but no set order of events. You're not confined to play within the story. . .because you are creating it.

 

[Bass]

I think I get the criticism.

When White Wolf released a book that said "The head of the Sabbat is Twipple McStanley" people got annoyed because their character's happened to be Head of the Sabbat and it makes their game more 'fanfictiony' - I think that's the problem, no?

As for the lack of backdrop in Vampire - it strikes me without the backdrop - well what's the point? I don't need a book to tell me how to make a world. The whole point of a roleplaying book is reading it and picking the bits you want. But that means the book needs loads of things in it, more than you can use, so you pick. In my Vampire game, for example, I didn't bring in Gehenna, the Inconnu or any of that stuff. I kept it very much about the present day struggle of the Camarilla and the Sabbat. And I had a lot to work with. It seems to me this new version offers less of a world and I dunno how useful that really is. Maybe it's too open as the other was too mandated?

 

[Lynx]

I think I get the criticism.

When White Wolf released a book that said "The head of the Sabbat is Twipple McStanley" people got annoyed because their character's happened to be Head of the Sabbat and it makes their game more 'fanfictiony' - I think that's the problem, no?

As for the lack of backdrop in Vampire - it strikes me without the backdrop - well what's the point? I don't need a book to tell me how to make a world. The whole point of a roleplaying book is reading it and picking the bits you want. But that means the book needs loads of things in it, more than you can use, so you pick. In my Vampire game, for example, I didn't bring in Gehenna, the Inconnu or any of that stuff. I kept it very much about the present day struggle of the Camarilla and the Sabbat. And I had a lot to work with. It seems to me this new version offers less of a world and I dunno how useful that really is. Maybe it's too open as the other was too mandated?

I dunno. Personally, I thought it was more of a comprimise. It's the definition of a toolbox game. It gives you the basics of Vampire society and such without a storyline. There's a small backdrop, but that's it (Werewolf and Mage's backstories are a little more fleshed out).

Think of the new WoD as similar to the way D&D presents its setting. There's no real set world for it without buying specifically Forgotten Realms, Ebberron or Greyhawk books. The new World of Darkness has setting books (Called city books), where the city has a history and such, if you're into playing with a premade setting. But, there isn't a canonical setting. Actually, next month, White Wolf is releasing a two books about Vampires in Ancient Rome, one of which details everything you need to play (A Requiem for Rome) and the other is a setting/pre-made adventure book called The Fall of the Camarilla.

I like it because I don't want to waste time creating an entire game from the ground up, and then pray that its balanced, but I don't want to be constricted to what the metaplot says. The fanficition analogy is a great way to look at it. Now, I can create whatever story I want without a new book contradicting what I said.

I also don't think it's quite as open as you think it is. Again, I'm going to use Vampire as an example. There is an entire hardcover book for each of the five major Covenantsm detailing everything about their orginization, there's a city builder book, there's a book that presents three different versions of VII, one of the antagonist groups, for you to use, there's a book on "alternate" Vampire games, there's a book on various myths about Vampire society and history, and they're coming out with Clan books next year. And again, there's a premade city book (New Orleands, pre-Katrina) and a huge, crossover setting book with Vampires, Werewolves and Mages living in the same city (Chicago). And that's not even all of the Vampire books out. It isn't barebones, really. It's a toolbox.

 

[Bass]

Fair enough.

 

[Lynx]

Fair enough.

I say try it once and then pass judgment. It's probably the easiest way you're going to get a feel of whether you like it or not.

 

[Bass]

I plan to - but I'm currently getting my game up and running which is all my invention. It's loosely based on the SAGA system, but it's really revamped and codified. I think it's pretty wicked. That's what I'm getting ready right now.

 

[Lynx]

I plan to - but I'm currently getting my game up and running which is all my invention. It's loosely based on the SAGA system, but it's really revamped and codified. I think it's pretty wicked. That's what I'm getting ready right now.

Oh yeah, of course! No worries on that. Just let me know when you do. Hell, let me know how your current game goes, too.

The SAGA system seems to be pretty good. Isn't D&D 4th supposed to be based on it?

 

[Ice]

I have a friend who I know played this (I don't know if he still does) type of RPG. I know he played D&D. And he had this giant book about it (I don't remember what type/version/etc. it was).

I haven't spoken to him in months as he lifes more upstate here and is a teacher, so he has a busy life with that.