The Robin Dilemma

Dr.Strangefate

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Because Robin is teh suckgay

Robin, as an established part of the DC Universe, is a fantastic character with a great legacy, and Dark Victory proves that you don't have to sacrifice the dark feel of Batman comics to introduce Robin.

A Death in the Family just isn't that well written.

Also: Don't just toss around the word "gay". It's definitely been happening more often Lately.
 
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Gothamite

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Robin, as an established part of the DC Universe, is a fantastic character with a great legacy, and Dark Victory proves that you don't have to sacrifice the dark feel of Batman comics to introduce Robin.

It still doesn't prove why Batman should hire a twelve-year old to run around in bright clothes or how he can be magically just as powerful as him.

Scratch that. It proves that if Batman did that, the kid would most certainly die (which as we all know; happened. Delightfully.).
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Knights have Knight Apprentices. Training to be a Knight under the wing of the best and the brightest.

And Robin chose the role he took, and Bruce would have been a hypocrite to stop him. Bruce could have sent him out into the world like he had done, or trained the young kid himself. So he decided to train him.

Sure it was reckless with Dick being so young, but Batman was younger then, and more strongheaded... When Robin turned 17 or 18, he made his own identity and set off on his own.

Jason and Tim were both around 16 when becoming Robins.

I'm fine with it. It can work. It can be stupid as hell, but it CAN work.
 
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Gothamite

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Knights have Knight Apprentices. Training to be a Knight under the wing of the best and the brightest.

And Robin chose the role he took, and Bruce would have been a hypocrite to stop him. Bruce could have sent him out into the world like he had done, or trained the young kid himself. So he decided to train him.

Sure it was reckless with Dick being so young, but Batman was younger then, and more strongheaded... When Robin turned 17 or 18, he made his own identity and set off on his own.

Jason and Tim were both around 16 when becoming Robins.

I'm fine with it. It can work. It can be stupid as hell, but it CAN work.

But...why the red and yellow? And the weird fishscale panties? WHY?
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Dick - Tribute to his parents: He wears the colors they wore in their act. Pretty sure the panties were directly a part of the suit.

Jason - Tribute to Dick, also so that people wouldn't think there's a new robin.

Tim - Tradition... And then recently he changed the colors to a more sensical and much better looking Red and Black.
 

Gothamite

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Dick - Tribute to his parents: He wears the colors they wore in their act. Pretty sure the panties were directly a part of the suit.

Jason - Tribute to Dick, also so that people wouldn't think there's a new robin.

Tim - Tradition... And then recently he changed the colors to a more sensical and much better looking Red and Black.

I used to dress up as a dinosaur in my old job. You think I'm going to want to fight crime in that suit to pay tribute to it?

Anyway, you've got me there. You think that's fine, I don't. No argument left, I suppose.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Parents killed by the mob in a suit that you now hunt the mob down in.

It's a little different, methinks.
 

Random

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

The situation is different. The costume's silliness and uselessness remains the same.

His character was originally made to make Batman lighter for kids to read, there that's why he has bright colors, the reason he keeps those colors today is just being true to the source material
 

ProjectX2

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

The reason Robin wears bright colours is because he's a distraction. :D
 

Random

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

This is where things stop making sense. Will that many people really care if they change the colours?

They did, just a few months ago it was mentioned earlier. But people didn't go an riot. most artist like to honor the past and the character. Look at Batman, he's not in all black even though that would make him more realistic, and he still has that underwear superheroes wear on the outside. It's called being classic.
 

Planet-man

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Also: Don't just toss around the word "gay". It's definitely been happening more often Lately.

I apologize. It was typed in haste.

Knights have Knight Apprentices. Training to be a Knight under the wing of the best and the brightest.

Too bad "Knight" is just a neat nickname comic readers call him and he's actually a vigilante who's trying to convince people he's a giant bat-like monster and would never, ever do anything so stupid as taking a teenager in brightly-coloured tights with him, because it would be extremely dangerous for the kid and blow his entire image.

Ah, well...

And Robin chose the role he took, and Bruce would have been a hypocrite to stop him. Bruce could have sent him out into the world like he had done, or trained the young kid himself. So he decided to train him.

There's a difference between training him in the Cave and bringing him along to fight the exact same goons he does on a nightly basis. Which no 5'1 inch teenager could do after a few months of training.

Jason and Tim were both around 16 when becoming Robins.

Tim was 13. As in probably pre-puberty muscular composition.

There's no way you can spin that to make it anything but absolutely ridicuous.

I'm fine with it. It can work. It can be stupid as hell, but it CAN work.

My problem is that, even when it works(which is rarely), it still automatically puts the character into a gear that I really don't like.

With Robin there, no matter how dark the story is, it's still just a story about a well-trained vigilante partnership, one of whom wears a Bat-like costume for no reason at all because he's already displaying to everybody he's just a regular man by tagging a kid along with him.

The Batman wears the Bat-suit because he wants to make criminals think he's something other than human, some sort of monster. That's the way I like it. When Robin's there, all that goes out the window and he's just a very competent vigilante.

It's the same problem I have with the public meetings with Gordon and the rest of the force at crime scenes, where they just stand there and chat it up.

Dick - Tribute to his parents: He wears the colors they wore in their act. Pretty sure the panties were directly a part of the suit.

Jason - Tribute to Dick, also so that people wouldn't think there's a new robin.

Tim - Tradition... And then recently he changed the colors to a more sensical and much better looking Red and Black.

Yeah, I'm sure Batman's gonna care about more about "tradition" than getting your *** shot off a building ledge because your bright red costume can been seen against a wall from two stories down and across the street.

The situation is different. The costume's silliness and uselessness remains the same.

Yep.

They did, just a few months ago it was mentioned earlier. But people didn't go an riot. most artist like to honor the past and the character. Look at Batman, he's not in all black even though that would make him more realistic, and he still has that underwear superheroes wear on the outside. It's called being classic.

Don't even get me started on how much I hate the blue/black and grey costume with the bright yellow belt.
 

ProjectX2

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

I am so ****ing sick of the Robin and costume arguments. It's like we can no longer have a Batman thread without it popping up.
 

Planet-man

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

I am so ****ing sick of the Robin and costume arguments. It's like we can no longer have a Batman thread without it popping up.

Proj is right! They should totally just remove Robin from the comics and give Batman a darker costume so we won't have to deal with this stuff anymore!

Seriously though, what I'd really like is a series in a seperate continuity where Batman is sidekickless(except for Alfred, of course), much more mysterious and monster-y to the bad guys, and operates without consultation with the GCPD, save for secret meetings with a somewhat baffled Cmsr. Gordon. Basically, everything that Batman Begins ended up delivering, to my delightful satisfaction.

That way, fans of the tradition-burdened Batman could go on with his adventures in mainstream DC continuity, while people who prefer the character the way I do could have their own series without all the stuff that takes away from it for us. It would also be sure to draw new readers who would be more interested in the character operating in that way, especially after the surge in dark-monster-costumed-Batman's popularity after Batman Begins. I really think it would be a great idea.

Can't be worse than ASBARTBW, at any rate.:)
 
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Dr.Strangefate

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Robin -CAN- work. Just like any sidekick -CAN- work. For Robin to work as a character, you need a good writer to approach the topic, which only happens every so often. When those stories aren't being written, I agree with the anti-Robin crowd, but since those stories are out there and I've read them, and its not like they're about to "Crisis" them out of continuity, I am happy that those stories exist, because I love the large majority of the Batman Mythos including everything from Robin to Batgirl...

Back in the day you could have written them off, but you can't anymore, and I am absolutely fine with that. Tim, Dick, Jason, and Barbara are damn good characters, integral to the DCU, and of course, the Teen Titans and the Outsiders.

So yeah, you can ***** and moan, or you can be happy that some writers put in the effort to make the whole concept work, rather than just being a sales technique back in the day.

Should I make a "The Robin Dilemma thread?"
 

SSJmole

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Should I make a "The Robin Dilemma thread?"

Yes you should , With blackjack and hookers! In fact, forget the "The Robin Dilemma thread" :lol:
 
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Planet-man

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Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Robin -CAN- work. Just like any sidekick -CAN- work. For Robin to work as a character, you need a good writer to approach the topic, which only happens every so often. When those stories aren't being written, I agree with the anti-Robin crowd, but since those stories are out there and I've read them, and its not like they're about to "Crisis" them out of continuity, I am happy that those stories exist, because I love the large majority of the Batman Mythos including everything from Robin to Batgirl...

Back in the day you could have written them off, but you can't anymore, and I am absolutely fine with that. Tim, Dick, Jason, and Barbara are damn good characters, integral to the DCU, and of course, the Teen Titans and the Outsiders.

So yeah, you can ***** and moan, or you can be happy that some writers put in the effort to make the whole concept work, rather than just being a sales technique back in the day.

Should I make a "The Robin Dilemma thread?"

Good idea, but you should start it with all the related posts in this thread. I've already outlined my main arguments.
 

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