The Robin Dilemma

So, PM, What then is your solution to the Robin Dilemma? Do you suggest a non-Miller All Star Comic taking place before Dark Victory? Or writing him out of continuity en masse.
 
I like Robin (original and next one , not really seen the girl one) , I love Nightwing and personally Sorry if this a) has been said or b) Is not really the purpose of the thread but here it goes


Costume '

I like the bright coloured costume , Thing to remember is even he/she is a tough fighter they are still essentially a kid , Kids are drawn more to the bright colours which is perfect as take the original robin

Robin costume :


bright colours which to me represents the child , It also reflects on his circus lifestyle which let's face it is what is needed. As batman was motivated by his parents death so to was robin. Would he not want something to show that?

However when he grew up :


He got rid of the bright costume and gets one similar to batman who was like a father to him for years. Both of these are very important and show the character's influence of his parents then later Bruce.

Why change it? It works and suits him.


Character
This more of the can you have a dark Batman story with robin? Kind of yes. Why do I say that? Because I think you can have dark story BUT Robin should bring some light heartedness to the table.

Think of it like this , Wolverine was a kind of dark character did it hurt him to see him with Rouge (film) Jubilee (cartoon) or who ever it was in the comics? No.

Robin serves an amazing purpose in Batman , to me anyway. The darker you make batman , the more cut-off from us and society. Robin serves as a buffer between the average joe and Batman

This helps ground batman more as well as show us he still cares. This can help us get more emotionally involved in the story and helps. So what if you lose some darkness if you gain so much more?

Some of the greatest darkest stories of all time , have had comic relief or more human like charracters. A great example of this is Star wars episode V : Empire strikes back , That is a pretty dark movie.

However C3po and r2d2 and even Chewie all served as sidekicks and/or comic relief. I guess my point on this is it can be done and it can help improve the story.

Anyway I hope my point makes sense to everyone else.
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
So, PM, What then is your solution to the Robin Dilemma? Do you suggest a non-Miller All Star Comic taking place before Dark Victory? Or writing him out of continuity en masse.
Click to expand...

There are tons of Robin fans out there so it'd disappoint a lot of people to have him removed from mainstream continuity, not to mention the historical problems it'd create in terms of Batman's in-universe past. I wouldn't want to rob legions of a character they like.

I was excited for All-Star Batman when I first heard about it. Frank Miller writing? Jim Lee doing the art? Awesome. This could be a great new series in the tradition of Year One and The Long Halloween. It'd be DC-Crisis-Continuity-Bull****-free, and with the oppourtunity for some new takes on characters by way of reintroduction. I immeadiately lost interest when I heard the full title of the series(luckily, it ended up not mattering either way, thanks to what appears to be some sort of new PCP addiction on Miller's part).

So yeah, my ideal situation is DC launching a new Batman title that starts out taking place fairly early in his career, and moves on from there. It would have no ties to mainstream DC continuity and maybe even take place in a world where no other Superheroes exist(the same way BB and BTAS originally did). To understand why Robin's presense would ruin this, you have to understand what my ideal incarnation of Batman would be...

The Bat-Man would operate in almost total secrecy. Not only does it not work with the GCPD, but they're continuously baffled by it, originally trying to apprehend it but eventually staying away from the situation if they can, out of both the realization that the Bat-Man seems to be doing their jobs for them half the time, and just plain fear on their own part.

The only reason criminals, cops, and citizens would even suspect that he's a human in a costume would be Occam's Razor. A recurring aspect of the series would be Batman going out of his way to make people think he's something supernatural. This includes a lot of stuff already seen in Batman Begins and Batman(1989), such as a solid black, bullet-proof costume and a cape that doubles as actual wings(use of his grappling guns would be rare and in secret; the memory-fabric cape is now his main means of transportation), and not talking to criminals as he fights them.

For face-to-face interrogations, he'd use a voice-changer, not only to make him sound like an actual monster, but to further protect his identity if ever recorded. Another awesome effect he could have is some sort of high-pitched sonic shriek. I imagine a scene where Bruce is sitting in the Batcave trying to work something out and being distracted by the echoing calls of the bats roosting in the caverns. He records this noise and uses the computer to mix it into a loud, horrifying shriek(maybe tests it by scaring Alfred or something), and adds a small device to his costume that emits the noise with the press of a button to startle and terrify criminals during a fight or pursuit. How awesome would that be?

The only cop the Bat-Man would interact with is Commissioner Gordon, who he would meet with in secret to trade information with for mutual advantage. Even Gordon doesn't really know what the deal with this guy is, but he's still got a better knowledge of him than anyone else save for Alfred, who of course knows everything. Their meetings would be set up with untracable cell phone calls, or some other portable way of communication that doesn't arouse suspiscion. The Bat-Signal would not be used to set up ordinary meetings any more, but it would still be in use. It would be Gordon's idea, but he would pitch it to his fellow cops as a way to scare criminals in the process of a big crime by letting them know the creature has been sighted or something.

The series would feature plenty of detective work and smaller, more realistic crimes at first, just like in Year One, but Batman's classic rogues would soon show up. In addition to being the first and deadliest of the "specialty" villains the Bat-Man would face, the Joker would also be the first to realize he's only a man, and his amusment at this would be a major theme of the character, and one of the reasons he doesn't fear him as much as others. The Riddler, too, would figure this out, but respect him even more as a fellow brilliant mind and worthy opponent.

Anyway, this is a good idea of what my ideal Batman series would be like. This series could do pretty well for itself, considering the surge in popularity of a Batman like this after BB, and the fact that he could easily appeal to new readers(the original intent of the All-Star and Ultimate Marvel lines).

Needless to say, there's no place for Robin to fit in here. It would be the equivelent of Superman having a sidekick infused with Kryptonite.:wink:
 
Planet-man said:
Proj is right! They should totally just remove Robin from the comics and give Batman a darker costume so we won't have to deal with this stuff anymore!

Seriously though, what I'd really like is a series in a seperate continuity where Batman is sidekickless(except for Alfred, of course), much more mysterious and monster-y to the bad guys, and operates without consultation with the GCPD, save for secret meetings with a somewhat baffled Cmsr. Gordon. Basically, everything that Batman Begins ended up delivering, to my delightful satisfaction.

That way, fans of the tradition-burdened Batman could go on with his adventures in mainstream DC continuity, while people who prefer the character the way I do could have their own series without all the stuff that takes away from it for us. It would also be sure to draw new readers who would be more interested in the character operating in that way, especially after the surge in dark-monster-costumed-Batman's popularity after Batman Begins. I really think it would be a great idea.

Can't be worse than ASBARTBW, at any rate.:)
Click to expand...

Planet-man said:
There are tons of Robin fans out there so it'd disappoint a lot of people to have him removed from mainstream continuity, not to mention the historical problems it'd create in terms of Batman's in-universe past. I wouldn't want to rob legions of a character they like.

I was excited for All-Star Batman when I first heard about it. Frank Miller writing? Jim Lee doing the art? Awesome. This could be a great new series in the tradition of Year One and The Long Halloween. It'd be DC-Crisis-Continuity-Bull****-free, and with the oppourtunity for some new takes on characters by way of reintroduction. I immeadiately lost interest when I heard the full title of the series(luckily, it ended up not mattering either way, thanks to what appears to be some sort of new PCP addiction on Miller's part).

So yeah, my ideal situation is DC launching a new Batman title that starts out taking place fairly early in his career, and moves on from there. It would have no ties to mainstream DC continuity and maybe even take place in a world where no other Superheroes exist(the same way BB and BTAS originally did). To understand why Robin's presense would ruin this, you have to understand what my ideal incarnation of Batman would be...

The Bat-Man would operate in almost total secrecy. Not only does it not work with the GCPD, but they're continuously baffled by it, originally trying to apprehend it but eventually staying away from the situation if they can, out of both the realization that the Bat-Man seems to be doing their jobs for them half the time, and just plain fear on their own part.

The only reason criminals, cops, and citizens would even suspect that he's a human in a costume would be Occam's Razor. A recurring aspect of the series would be Batman going out of his way to make people think he's something supernatural. This includes a lot of stuff already seen in Batman Begins and Batman(1989), such as a solid black, bullet-proof costume and a cape that doubles as actual wings(use of his grappling guns would be rare and in secret; the memory-fabric cape is now his main means of transportation), and not talking to criminals as he fights them.

For face-to-face interrogations, he'd use a voice-changer, not only to make him sound like an actual monster, but to further protect his identity if ever recorded. Another awesome effect he could have is some sort of high-pitched sonic shriek. I imagine a scene where Bruce is sitting in the Batcave trying to work something out and being distracted by the echoing calls of the bats roosting in the caverns. He records this noise and uses the computer to mix it into a loud, horrifying shriek(maybe tests it by scaring Alfred or something), and adds a small device to his costume that emits the noise with the press of a button to startle and terrify criminals during a fight or pursuit. How awesome would that be?

The only cop the Bat-Man would interact with is Commissioner Gordon, who he would meet with in secret to trade information with for mutual advantage. Even Gordon doesn't really know what the deal with this guy is, but he's still got a better knowledge of him than anyone else save for Alfred, who of course knows everything. Their meetings would be set up with untracable cell phone calls, or some other portable way of communication that doesn't arouse suspiscion. The Bat-Signal would not be used to set up ordinary meetings any more, but it would still be in use. It would be Gordon's idea, but he would pitch it to his fellow cops as a way to scare criminals in the process of a big crime by letting them know the creature has been sighted or something.

The series would feature plenty of detective work and smaller, more realistic crimes at first, just like in Year One, but Batman's classic rogues would soon show up. In addition to being the first and deadliest of the "specialty" villains the Bat-Man would face, the Joker would also be the first to realize he's only a man, and his amusment at this would be a major theme of the character, and one of the reasons he doesn't fear him as much as others. The Riddler, too, would figure this out, but respect him even more as a fellow brilliant mind and worthy opponent.

Anyway, this is a good idea of what my ideal Batman series would be like. This series could do pretty well for itself, considering the surge in popularity of a Batman like this after BB, and the fact that he could easily appeal to new readers(the original intent of the All-Star and Ultimate Marvel lines).

Needless to say, there's no place for Robin to fit in here. It would be the equivelent of Superman having a sidekick infused with Kryptonite.:wink:
Click to expand...

... **** it I aint reading all that.
 
Re: I want to start reading Batman...

Planet-man said:
Proj is right! They should totally just remove Robin from the comics and give Batman a darker costume so we won't have to deal with this stuff anymore!

Seriously though, what I'd really like is a series in a seperate continuity where Batman is sidekickless(except for Alfred, of course), much more mysterious and monster-y to the bad guys, and operates without consultation with the GCPD, save for secret meetings with a somewhat baffled Cmsr. Gordon. Basically, everything that Batman Begins ended up delivering, to my delightful satisfaction.

That way, fans of the tradition-burdened Batman could go on with his adventures in mainstream DC continuity, while people who prefer the character the way I do could have their own series without all the stuff that takes away from it for us. It would also be sure to draw new readers who would be more interested in the character operating in that way, especially after the surge in dark-monster-costumed-Batman's popularity after Batman Begins. I really think it would be a great idea.

Can't be worse than ASBARTBW, at any rate.:)
Click to expand...


I didn't finish reading i wanted to comment on this. I would love for there to be a batman series..in the same vein as Punisher MAX. But there is Batman Confidential, which is like Batman's early years, I've only flicked through it but it seems they put a lot of new writers on it, and it's more experimental and in continuity. Batman is still an urban legend and I don't think there's a Robin. Anyway if there were a 'Batman MAX' I'd buy it.
 
Planet-man said:
There are tons of Robin fans out there so it'd disappoint a lot of people to have him removed from mainstream continuity, not to mention the historical problems it'd create in terms of Batman's in-universe past. I wouldn't want to rob legions of a character they like.

I was excited for All-Star Batman when I first heard about it. Frank Miller writing? Jim Lee doing the art? Awesome. This could be a great new series in the tradition of Year One and The Long Halloween. It'd be DC-Crisis-Continuity-Bull****-free, and with the oppourtunity for some new takes on characters by way of reintroduction. I immeadiately lost interest when I heard the full title of the series(luckily, it ended up not mattering either way, thanks to what appears to be some sort of new PCP addiction on Miller's part).

So yeah, my ideal situation is DC launching a new Batman title that starts out taking place fairly early in his career, and moves on from there. It would have no ties to mainstream DC continuity and maybe even take place in a world where no other Superheroes exist(the same way BB and BTAS originally did). To understand why Robin's presense would ruin this, you have to understand what my ideal incarnation of Batman would be...

The Bat-Man would operate in almost total secrecy. Not only does it not work with the GCPD, but they're continuously baffled by it, originally trying to apprehend it but eventually staying away from the situation if they can, out of both the realization that the Bat-Man seems to be doing their jobs for them half the time, and just plain fear on their own part.

The only reason criminals, cops, and citizens would even suspect that he's a human in a costume would be Occam's Razor. A recurring aspect of the series would be Batman going out of his way to make people think he's something supernatural. This includes a lot of stuff already seen in Batman Begins and Batman(1989), such as a solid black, bullet-proof costume and a cape that doubles as actual wings(use of his grappling guns would be rare and in secret; the memory-fabric cape is now his main means of transportation), and not talking to criminals as he fights them.

For face-to-face interrogations, he'd use a voice-changer, not only to make him sound like an actual monster, but to further protect his identity if ever recorded. Another awesome effect he could have is some sort of high-pitched sonic shriek. I imagine a scene where Bruce is sitting in the Batcave trying to work something out and being distracted by the echoing calls of the bats roosting in the caverns. He records this noise and uses the computer to mix it into a loud, horrifying shriek(maybe tests it by scaring Alfred or something), and adds a small device to his costume that emits the noise with the press of a button to startle and terrify criminals during a fight or pursuit. How awesome would that be?

The only cop the Bat-Man would interact with is Commissioner Gordon, who he would meet with in secret to trade information with for mutual advantage. Even Gordon doesn't really know what the deal with this guy is, but he's still got a better knowledge of him than anyone else save for Alfred, who of course knows everything. Their meetings would be set up with untracable cell phone calls, or some other portable way of communication that doesn't arouse suspiscion. The Bat-Signal would not be used to set up ordinary meetings any more, but it would still be in use. It would be Gordon's idea, but he would pitch it to his fellow cops as a way to scare criminals in the process of a big crime by letting them know the creature has been sighted or something.

The series would feature plenty of detective work and smaller, more realistic crimes at first, just like in Year One, but Batman's classic rogues would soon show up. In addition to being the first and deadliest of the "specialty" villains the Bat-Man would face, the Joker would also be the first to realize he's only a man, and his amusment at this would be a major theme of the character, and one of the reasons he doesn't fear him as much as others. The Riddler, too, would figure this out, but respect him even more as a fellow brilliant mind and worthy opponent.

Anyway, this is a good idea of what my ideal Batman series would be like. This series could do pretty well for itself, considering the surge in popularity of a Batman like this after BB, and the fact that he could easily appeal to new readers(the original intent of the All-Star and Ultimate Marvel lines).

Needless to say, there's no place for Robin to fit in here. It would be the equivelent of Superman having a sidekick infused with Kryptonite.:wink:
Click to expand...

WOW.

*Applauds*

I would love to see you write this fanfic. Hell, I would co-write/do some concept art for it.

Brilliant ideas there.
 
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