Ultimate Ages

DIrishB

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Hawkeye101 said:
No, no, no. I think you miss interpreted what I was trying to say. Hawkeye spacifically says "SHIELD was just you, me, and a drinks tab trying to bring down what was left of the Soviet Union." This says to me, that even though the Soviet Union fell from power officially in 1990, there were still pockets of Soviet soldigers, or soviet bases and stuff (the beginnings of Ultimate Hydra?). And Hawk could be 26 (by my count). Why would Fury want him on the Ultimates if he wasn't some kind of prodigy. The youngest American Agent or whatever. It works. I was under the impression in 'Homeland Security' that Hawkeye and Laura were teen lovers and accidentally started a family, because at that point Laura was only Hawk's girlfriend.

P.S. please keep critiquing this, I find it vey helpful

Thats fine and all, but the Soviet Union totally crumbled and Russia became a Russian democracy with very little military squabbling. It wasn't some long, drawn-out thing like is currently happening in Iraq (which is more evidence we should just mind our own business as it seems to work better when we do). Therefore, the taking care of what was "left of the Soviet Union" thing would still most likely refer to a time VERY soon after the fall, meaning VERY early nineties. Assuming Hawkeye was at least 18 to take part in this, that would place him being born around 1972 or 1973, meaning in the current Ultimate timeline he's 31 or 32. And dead by that age as well. ;)

Why do you have that habit of under-guessing character's ages? I remember you posted a thread about that and had most of the Ultimates in their early to mid 20's. Trust me, they're probably all in their early to late 30's, not their 20's.
 

Hawkeye101

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DIrishB said:
Thats fine and all, but the Soviet Union totally crumbled and Russia became a Russian democracy with very little military squabbling. It wasn't some long, drawn-out thing like is currently happening in Iraq (which is more evidence we should just mind our own business as it seems to work better when we do). Therefore, the taking care of what was "left of the Soviet Union" thing would still most likely refer to a time VERY soon after the fall, meaning VERY early nineties. Assuming Hawkeye was at least 18 to take part in this, that would place him being born around 1972 or 1973, meaning in the current Ultimate timeline he's 31 or 32. And dead by that age as well. ;)

Why do you have that habit of under-guessing character's ages? I remember you posted a thread about that and had most of the Ultimates in their early to mid 20's. Trust me, they're probably all in their early to late 30's, not their 20's.

Well, Janet, Hank , Betty and Banner are all around the age of 27 because in Homeland Security Wasp says she's 26. She and Betty were roomates, and their significant others are of similar age. Tony and Natasha are mid thierties, BW because she had to have grown up and trained in Soviet Russia, and Tony because a refence to his age was made (i cant remember where). Cap is tecnically 82, but was 26 himself when frozen in ice, so mentally still 26. Hawkeye is the only character with no age reference. I get the idea that he is young due to his family structuer (usually younger couples are the ones who start having children out of wed-lock) he has no age wrinckles anywhere, and seems to have that youthfull bad***** persona to him. Besides, these characters can't be too old, especially if they are skipping years when writing Ultimates, They're gonna age and get to old to be super heros.

And the 'bringing down waht was left of the Soviet Union' comment, yes, in the real world, the Soviet Union fell pretty much over night, but I was saying It sounded like Ultimate Marvel kept remnats of it around, probably to start Ultimate Hydra or whatever.
 

DIrishB

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Hawkeye101 said:
Well, Janet, Hank , Betty and Banner are all around the age of 27 because in Homeland Security Wasp says she's 26. She and Betty were roomates, and their significant others are of similar age. Tony and Natasha are mid thierties, BW because she had to have grown up and trained in Soviet Russia, and Tony because a refence to his age was made (i cant remember where). Cap is tecnically 82, but was 26 himself when frozen in ice, so mentally still 26. Hawkeye is the only character with no age reference. I get the idea that he is young due to his family structuer (usually younger couples are the ones who start having children out of wed-lock) he has no age wrinckles anywhere, and seems to have that youthfull bad***** persona to him. Besides, these characters can't be too old, especially if they are skipping years when writing Ultimates, They're gonna age and get to old to be super heros.

And the 'bringing down waht was left of the Soviet Union' comment, yes, in the real world, the Soviet Union fell pretty much over night, but I was saying It sounded like Ultimate Marvel kept remnats of it around, probably to start Ultimate Hydra or whatever.

Where in Homeland Security does it say Wasp is 26? I don't remember ANY specific age references to the characters anywhere. I agree on Tony and Natasha's ages, but Hawkeye is definitly older than 30. Just because he has a young family doesn't mean he's in his early 20's. Let me know where you saw the Wasp age reference, as I can't remember that at all.
 

Hawkeye101

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DIrishB said:
Where in Homeland Security does it say Wasp is 26? I don't remember ANY specific age references to the characters anywhere. I agree on Tony and Natasha's ages, but Hawkeye is definitly older than 30. Just because he has a young family doesn't mean he's in his early 20's. Let me know where you saw the Wasp age reference, as I can't remember that at all.

When the nurse says 'Let me get you a bed pan' and Janet says "i'm twenty-six ma'am, I can go to the bathroom myself.'

Having tham as young as possible favors me because I don't want them getting old on me.
 

DIrishB

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Hawkeye101 said:
When the nurse says 'Let me get you a bed pan' and Janet says "i'm twenty-six ma'am, I can go to the bathroom myself.'

Having tham as young as possible favors me because I don't want them getting old on me.

Huh, ok. Seriously though, I would assume it makes her, Hank, Betty and possibly Bruce in their late 20's, but the rest of the team HAS to be in their 30's. They just have to be. And I wouldn't worry about the team getting old too soon given that only a year has passed in the Ultimate universe for the 5 or so years of real-time that has passed. It won't be anytime soon we'll be seeing the Geriatric Ultimates. Besides, most of them will probably be killed off long before they get old.
 

Hawkeye101

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DIrishB said:
Huh, ok. Seriously though, I would assume it makes her, Hank, Betty and possibly Bruce in their late 20's, but the rest of the team HAS to be in their 30's. They just have to be. And I wouldn't worry about the team getting old too soon given that only a year has passed in the Ultimate universe for the 5 or so years of real-time that has passed. It won't be anytime soon we'll be seeing the Geriatric Ultimates. Besides, most of them will probably be killed off long before they get old.

The Ultimate Universe has a knack for making the character as young as possible. Spider-Man is sixteen and only a small handful of X-Men are over twenty. I think that the only people over thirty (physically and mentally) are Iron Man, Black Widow, Nick Fury, Prof. X, Wolverine, Thor, Punisher, and some of the defenders. I mean, Forty is when you kinda call it quits at the super-hero gig (Unless you've been frozen in ice, got a healing factor, and so on and so fourth). I am willing to bet most anything, Hawkeye has yet to reach 30.
 

DIrishB

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Hawkeye101 said:
The Ultimate Universe has a knack for making the character as young as possible. Spider-Man is sixteen and only a small handful of X-Men are over twenty. I think that the only people over thirty (physically and mentally) are Iron Man, Black Widow, Nick Fury, Prof. X, Wolverine, Thor, Punisher, and some of the defenders. I mean, Forty is when you kinda call it quits at the super-hero gig (Unless you've been frozen in ice, got a healing factor, and so on and so fourth). I am willing to bet most anything, Hawkeye has yet to reach 30.

Spider-Man is still 15.

If Hawkeye was involved in operations around the time the Soviet Union went down, he's over 30. There's no way around that without an unlikely or contrived explanation (like the Soviet Union still having remnants long after its break up sometime into the late 90's). And besides, we know Hawkeye was working on the Black Ops team for quite awhile, which had to occur AFTER his time spent undertaking missions with Fury. Thats a lot to fit in if he's only 26. Maybe if they show a gravemarker for him after his (apparent) death in U2 #7 we'll find out, though I doubt it. Either way though, I'm sure Hawkeye is over 30.
 

Hawkeye101

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DIrishB said:
Spider-Man is still 15.

If Hawkeye was involved in operations around the time the Soviet Union went down, he's over 30. There's no way around that without an unlikely or contrived explanation (like the Soviet Union still having remnants long after its break up sometime into the late 90's). And besides, we know Hawkeye was working on the Black Ops team for quite awhile, which had to occur AFTER his time spent undertaking missions with Fury. Thats a lot to fit in if he's only 26. Maybe if they show a gravemarker for him after his (apparent) death in U2 #7 we'll find out, though I doubt it. Either way though, I'm sure Hawkeye is over 30.

If the theory that The Soviet Union still exsisted in small gurella pockets well into the nities, then he could be 27
 

DIrishB

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Hawkeye101 said:
If the theory that The Soviet Union still exsisted in small gurella pockets well into the nities, then he could be 27

Yeah but that theory makes no sense and is lame, thereby making him over 30 much more likely and believable, especially for someone with his amount of apparent experience.
 

Hawkeye101

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DIrishB said:
Yeah but that theory makes no sense and is lame, thereby making him over 30 much more likely and believable, especially for someone with his amount of apparent experience.

Is any idea you don't support lame? Look, I was thinking that these small pocets of Soviet Remnants could lead up to Hydra, and keep my dude in his twenties. Which is where men are in their prime for things like action anyway.
 

DIrishB

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Hawkeye101 said:
Is any idea you don't support lame?

Yes, especially when it involves something which craps all over established history/continuity. Thats also why I hate UIM.

Look, I was thinking that these small pocets of Soviet Remnants could lead up to Hydra, and keep my dude in his twenties. Which is where men are in their prime for things like action anyway.

Did you actually pay attention in history class the day they covered the fall of the Soviet Union. The reason it was such a blood-less revolution is because the Soviet people themselves were tired of the failing Communist economic system. Besides, I'm pretty sure Hydra was based in Germany or something, not Russia.

And in terms of what we're referring to, men are in their prime when they have the right amount of experience to go along with their youthful vigor. I'd say thats somewhere in their early 30's. Gives them 10+ years experience and learning of the ropes, without them being too old to cause them to slow down.
 

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Great Odin's Ravens!!!

Would you two put a cork in it!? It doesn't bloody matter if Clint is 27 or 31, it's a bloody comic book! If you two want to have a lovers spat, do it in the confines of your own homes....

Anyway, I vote for Thor. Just because he's so cool it hurts.
 

Hawkeye101

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DIrishB said:
And in terms of what we're referring to, men are in their prime when they have the right amount of experience to go along with their youthful vigor. I'd say thats somewhere in their early 30's. Gives them 10+ years experience and learning of the ropes, without them being too old to cause them to slow down.

One: Women are in their prime in their thirties, not men, who are in their prime in mid to late twenties. Two: nine to ten years is pleanty of time to know the ropes about SHIELD. Three: One reason they started the Ultimate Universe was becuase in 616 the characters were getting too old or should be too old. They wanted EVERYONE to be as young as possible in the Ultimate Universe, so they could have another forty years or so with them, which would be like twenty years to those who live int the Ultimate Universe

Cap- 82
Thor- 30
Iron Man- 31
Giant-Man- 27
Wasp- 27
Hulk- 27
Black Widow- 31
Hawkeye- 27
Scarlet Witch & Quick Silver- (not quite sure, since they seemed really young in UXM, but seem older in Ultimates). 25?
 

14rdb

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I've always felt Hawkeye comes across as being closer to 40. He's this guy who should be totally overwhelmed being without any superpowers on a team loaded with incredible power but he's not, primarily due to his experience IMO.

And why'd you move him to Des Moines? Is that where you're from? I say keep him from Waverly (not that it matters, just closer to where I'm from :wink: ).
 
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Seldes Katne

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Not intending to add fuel to the fire or anything (I hope), but....

Being as how we all have our speciality areas ( :wink: ), I would suggest pushing Thor's age forward to his mid-thirties. There's some evidence in Ultimates and Ultimates 2 that suggest he's around 33 during the events of Ultimates 2 Issue 5, which would continue the Thor/Jesus parallel Millar appears to be using. (According to Biblical evidence, Jesus was crucified at the age of 33.)

For example, Bruce Banner comments in the first Ultimates arc that Thor had his nervous breakdown "just shy of his 30th birthday", and spent 18 months in a psychiatric facility, so about the youngest he could be at that point would be 31. If I recall correctly, Gunnar Golman commented that the Thor hardware was stolen 24 months previously, which was after Thor's nervous breakdown episode. (Assuming that Gunnar isn't lying through his teeth about the whole thing, of course.) So Thor's been establishing himself as a world power for at least a couple of years now, which would put his age around 33 or 34.


On the ages of other characters: I seem to remember reading somewhere that Nick Fury is indeed 40 or a little older (I think the comment was that 40 seemed young for him to be a general). But that was outside the title itself, in an interview or a discussion somewhere, and I'm afraid I don't remember where I saw it.

Betty Ross: doesn't Hank Pym make a comment about "well, sounds like someone's hitting her thirties" back during Ultimates 2 Issue 2? That suggests that Betty is 29 or 30 at that point.

In terms of the Betty/Jan roommate situation: I'm not sure how they assign roommates in college any more, it's been years since I lived on a college campus. But a guy I was dating back during grad school had a suite of dorm rooms with two friends, and they were in different years in college; they just happened to be buddies and had similar study and living habits, so they were compatible roommates. I also shared a room during a summer semester with a girl who was an undergrad, while I was a graduate student. We were assigned the same room because we had similar class schedules, and both had full-day classes, so it made sense to the administration to have us together. We were in completely different majors, but we both liked each other and got along well, so it worked out.

I agree, though, that Ultimate Marvel characters do seem to be as young as possible, probably to appeal to the younger audience the series are supposed to attract, and, as Hawkeye101 commented, to give them as much "running time" as possible before they turn into old fogies. :wink:

I don't have an issue with Clint getting enhancements to his eyes due to injury. Fury and Wraith are proof enough that injuries happen on this kind of job; being protective of my own eyesight, I can see where Clint would fight to keep his as well. My preference for the character would also be for him to just be someone who's very, very good at what he does, without mutant or superhuman abilities. If nothing else, that would suggest that those of us who aren't superhuman could play in the big leagues, too, if we're willing to work hard enough at it.
 
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14rdb

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Hawkeye101 said:
One: Women are in their prime in their thirties, not men, who are in their prime in mid to late twenties.
On a pure athletic level, men probably peak in their late 20s -- pure athletics as in sprinting speed and vertical leaping. However, tasks that require intelligence and experience as well as athletic prowess usually sees the top men firmly in their 30s.

A quick check -- even though football is a brutal game that ages players faster than normal due to injury and wear and tear, the top players are mostly in their 30s.

The average age of the top 5 passers in the NFL last year was 31.2

The leading rusher was 31.

The top two leading receivers were 31 and 32 (and that doesn't even count 32-year-old Terrell Owens, the current top receiver).

Other top sports:

Last year's NBA MVP was 31.

Last year's MLB NL MVP was 39.

Away from athletics, the age of men at the top of their game is typically even higher. The closest thing to Hawkeye in the real world is probably a Delta Force operator. They tend to be in their early to mid-30s.

And for a soldier, training and experience are many times more important than whether or not they've added .2 seconds to their 100 meter dash times -- especially for someone like Hawkeye who is already completely overmatched in pure physical terms (strength & speed) when compared with his teammates.
 

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Seldes Katne said:
Betty Ross: doesn't Hank Pym make a comment about "well, sounds like someone's hitting her thirties" back during Ultimates 2 Issue 2? That suggests that Betty is 29 or 30 at that point.

He did indeed - very astute of you. :D
 

DIrishB

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Fuzzy Birds said:
Great Odin's Ravens!!!

Would you two put a cork in it!? It doesn't bloody matter if Clint is 27 or 31, it's a bloody comic book! If you two want to have a lovers spat, do it in the confines of your own homes....

Anyway, I vote for Thor. Just because he's so cool it hurts.

We like our lover's spats to be aired publicly. Adds excitement and all that. And if it doesn't matter so much, then I should just give up on the timeline as well since thats related, huh?

Hawkeye101 said:
One: Women are in their prime in their thirties, not men, who are in their prime in mid to late twenties. Two: nine to ten years is pleanty of time to know the ropes about SHIELD. Three: One reason they started the Ultimate Universe was becuase in 616 the characters were getting too old or should be too old. They wanted EVERYONE to be as young as possible in the Ultimate Universe, so they could have another forty years or so with them, which would be like twenty years to those who live int the Ultimate Universe

Cap- 82
Thor- 30
Iron Man- 31
Giant-Man- 27
Wasp- 27
Hulk- 27
Black Widow- 31
Hawkeye- 27
Scarlet Witch & Quick Silver- (not quite sure, since they seemed really young in UXM, but seem older in Ultimates). 25?

Oh my God. Listen, the reason he's got to be OVER 30 is due to that comment about the Soviet Union. You're assuming there were splinter groups or something to justify making him in his late twenties, whereas I'm only basing his age off what we actually know. Therefore, you're pulling stuff out of your *** to explain him being younger than he is. Do you understand now?

Seldes Katne said:
For example, Bruce Banner comments in the first Ultimates arc that Thor had his nervous breakdown "just shy of his 30th birthday", and spent 18 months in a psychiatric facility, so about the youngest he could be at that point would be 31. If I recall correctly, Gunnar Golman commented that the Thor hardware was stolen 24 months previously, which was after Thor's nervous breakdown episode. (Assuming that Gunnar isn't lying through his teeth about the whole thing, of course.) So Thor's been establishing himself as a world power for at least a couple of years now, which would put his age around 33 or 34.

Thank you Seldes.

Matter of fact, Hawkeye101, why not ask post over on Millarworld.net and ask how old he intended Hawkeye to be, and see what his answer is. I'll bet money right now the answer is over 30. I'd estimate 32, maybe 33 at oldest, but he's much older than 27.
 

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Hawkeye101 said:
One: Women are in their prime in their thirties, not men, who are in their prime in mid to late twenties. Two: nine to ten years is pleanty of time to know the ropes about SHIELD. Three: One reason they started the Ultimate Universe was becuase in 616 the characters were getting too old or should be too old. They wanted EVERYONE to be as young as possible in the Ultimate Universe, so they could have another forty years or so with them, which would be like twenty years to those who live int the Ultimate Universe

Cap- 82
Thor- 30
Iron Man- 31
Giant-Man- 27
Wasp- 27
Hulk- 27
Black Widow- 31
Hawkeye- 27
Scarlet Witch & Quick Silver- (not quite sure, since they seemed really young in UXM, but seem older in Ultimates). 25?

I'm pretty sure Hank is in his early 30s. I don't have issue 6 (v2) nearby but I'm sure he makes a comment about being 10 years older then valkerie or something. I could be wrong though.
 

DIrishB

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Rawb said:
I'm pretty sure Hank is in his early 30s. I don't have issue 6 (v2) nearby but I'm sure he makes a comment about being 10 years older then valkerie or something. I could be wrong though.

Right, and unless Valkyrie was underage and in addition to being a wife-beater Hank is also guilty of statutory rape, I think that means he's older than 27 or whatever.
 

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