Ultimate Black-Ops

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The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Since Millar mentioned a an Ultimate Black-Ops in his Ultimate avengers interview, I thought i would give it a thread of its own.

Millar mentioned Hawkeye and Punisher as memebers, can Millar undo the damage done to Ultimate Hawkeye, can he make Ultimate Punisher into an interesting character finally? Who else can they have on the team? Should they have some Ultimate versions of Thunderbolts as members?

Who would they fight, what kind of missions would they go on?
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
If Punisher is indeed involved it should be under EXTREME protest. Or coercion.
 

ProjectX2

Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
I always liked the idea that Fury or whoever is in charge of SHIELD told Castle that HYDRA or some other organisation killed his family when actually, it was SHIELD that did it. They turned him into a weapon and aimed him at their enemies.

That probably wouldn't work (especially with Ultimate Fury) but I think it's an interesting idea.

Was it Hawkeye/Black Widow/Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch that was the black ops team? I can't remember. Maybe we'll see this version when Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were running around as members of the Brotherhood and therefore not part of the team.
 
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Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
I always liked the idea that Fury or whoever is in charge of SHIELD told Castle that HYDRA or some other organisation killed his family when actually, it was SHIELD that did it. They turned him into a weapon and aimed him at their enemies.

That probably wouldn't work (especially with Ultimate Fury) but I think it's an interesting idea.

Was it Hawkeye/Black Widow/Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch that was the black ops team? I can't remember. Maybe we'll see this version when Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were running around as members of the Brotherhood and therefore not part of the team.
Hawkeye and Black Widow were, but the other two didn't really do anything for blacks ops, just more on stand by before they went public.

I'm thinking this team maybe only either low or no powers. I'd like to see Moonknight and any other character whose been sent away like Doc Conners in a supporting role
 

Langsta

Well-Known Member
Millar said that we're going to see the "first" Hulk (even though, according to Origins, Banner first became the Hulk way back when Peter Parker's parents were still alive....so the first Hulk would have to be pretty old).

In the 1970s Hulk TV show, there was an episode that mentioned someone who became "the Hulk" about 30 years before Banner. His name was Del Frye, and he was a sickly dude who was bullied by villagers or something.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
If Punisher is indeed involved it should be under EXTREME protest. Or coercion.
Well he is in prison, so they would have access to him, they could promise him freedom or help him get revenge on those who killed his family or they could force him to work for them somehow. I'm hoping Millar has elements of Suicide Squad and New Thunderbolts, where the government is having villains working for them, because they are powerful, ruthless and ultimately expendable.

I wonder what villains they use if they go that route, because the UU has way fewer B-listers just hanging around that they could just pluck for such a group.
 

Willverine

Well-Known Member
I think if anyone could make Ultimate Punisher not suck, it would be Millar. I hate to see it, but I'd even applaud a retcon of the entire character in this case. Hawkeye and any other existing member of the Ultimates is easy enough, all that needs to be done is completely ignore Ultimates 3 and pretend it didn't happen!

Other than Hawkeye and the Punisher, Falcon could be thrown into the mix with his military background. I'd even put Captain America on the team in a USAgent style uniform (hey, it makes more sense than Captain America being the Black Panther).

Just having Millar back on an Ultimate book will be tons better than anything Loeb's had to offer so far. I'm still angry over U3... and I'm not looking forward to the Ultimate Captain America Annual.
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
I know this is cliche for me to say but back when we were ultimizing everyone and anyone, I threw around putting Daredevil on the Ultimates black-ops team with Hawkeye and Black Widow pre Ultimates.

But not just him as a candidate. I think if they can take Frank Castle off the street, what would prevent them from taking Moon Knight, Shang-Chi, Iron Fist, and/or Spider-Man and having them make "official" use of their skills and abilities?
 

Gemini

Well-Known Member
I know this is cliche for me to say but back when we were ultimizing everyone and anyone, I threw around putting Daredevil on the Ultimates black-ops team with Hawkeye and Black Widow pre Ultimates.

But not just him as a candidate. I think if they can take Frank Castle off the street, what would prevent them from taking Moon Knight, Shang-Chi, Iron Fist, and/or Spider-Man and having them make "official" use of their skills and abilities?
I could definitley see Moon Knight involved with this, given his military and mercenary background, wait was that established in UU?, I may be mixing the 616 version in with the Ultimate one.

Shang and Iron Fist, I'd be doubtful of because they have little to no connection with the military, Iron Fist maybe could have been used during his time in prison, contributing to his rather short detainment. But Shang-Chi being an illegal refugee hiding from his father, I'd be surprised if he'd pop up on Fury's radar.

maybe a pre-cyborgization Wadey Wilson?
 

Langsta

Well-Known Member
All that needs to be done is completely ignore Ultimates 3 and pretend it didn't happen!


Yeah, I'd like for it to just read as Ultimates, Ultimates 2, Ultimate Avengers, skipping Ultimates 3 and making no mention of it. Nick Fury is definitely going to be in this (some of this takes place before Fury was put in the Supreme Powerverse, and the Black-Ops team was just being mentioned - Chitauri invasion and before), so....y'know....maybe don't mention him being a superhuman?

I still can't figure out how Millar is going to do the first Hulk. Banner was the Hulk around 16 years according to Origins (he sees young Peter Parker after he kills his parents). Maybe Millar doesn't literally mean the "first" Hulk (the public only first knew of the Hulk's existence when he fought Spidey in Manhattan; maybe he means some guy before that).

Another thing, Millar should probably mention why the Black Ultimates weren't around to fight the Liberators. Maybe they died, I dunno. But the entire Ultimate universe of heroes was pitted against the Liberators, and it wouldn't make sense for them not to be involved with fighting the Liberators (or maybe they were, but just weren't shown....obviously they hadn't been created yet).

I know this is cliche for me to say but back when we were ultimizing everyone and anyone, I threw around putting Daredevil on the Ultimates black-ops team with Hawkeye and Black Widow pre Ultimates.

But not just him as a candidate. I think if they can take Frank Castle off the street, what would prevent them from taking Moon Knight, Shang-Chi, Iron Fist, and/or Spider-Man and having them make "official" use of their skills and abilities?
I think most of the stuff involving the Black Ultimates will take place before Knight and Fist and Shang-Chi debuted. Same thing with Daredevil. Probably before and during Ultimates and part of Ultimates 2. Obviously, this whole thing isn't just going to be about the Black Ultimates (it's "Ultimate Avengers"), but I don't see how there could be much of a Black-Ops team nowadays if the Ultimates aren't even part of SHIELD anymore (I said disregard Ultimates 3, but remember, the Ultimates broke off from SHIELD at the end of Ultimates 2) and since Fury's gone (unless Carol Danvers, current SHIELD director, has some Black-Ops people sitting around. I'm tired, I can't think anymore.
 

Langsta

Well-Known Member
I could definitley see Moon Knight involved with this, given his military and mercenary background, wait was that established in UU?, I may be mixing the 616 version in with the Ultimate one.
Ultimate Moon Knight does have some Navy SEALS background purportedly (it's difficult to say because he has like 5 identities).
 

Gemini

Well-Known Member
Ultimate Moon Knight does have some Navy SEALS background purportedly (it's difficult to say because he has like 5 identities).
Well we can assume it wasn't the red-headed little girl who has the military experience

or can we?

*pictures Marc Spector charging into battle in the gulf war screaming "for Barbie!*

*giggles*
 

Zombipanda

My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
It should consist of a black Hulk, a new Black Widow, Tony Stark's evil brother, Thor's evil brother from another pantheon, an evil Wasp, and a black Iron Man.
 

Zeek

Well-Known Member
Another thing, Millar should probably mention why the Black Ultimates weren't around to fight the Liberators.
Probably because the only Ultimates around at that time were The Ultimates themselves. Only Hawkeye and Black Widow were brought over, and they were more-or-less regular people. There's nothing that really suggests the pre-Ultimatum Black Ops to be anything but that; all the super-people were put onto Fury's Ultimates, after all. Another reason why these masters of espionage wouldn't have participated in Grand Theft America would probably be because Natasha, a former member of them, saw fit to incapacitate them before the invasion. Not that it matters, because Grand Theft America is generally ignored by the entire UU anyways (why Ultimatum got to be a major even and GTA didn't remains completely beyond me).
 

X_Toad

Well-Known Member
Ultimatum was meant to end the line, not Grand Theft America. So the writers had to wait for it to happen, nevermind the delays. But like Bendis said, when it comes to Grand Theft America, he couldn't say a thing about it in his book because of the delays!
 

Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
Ultimatum was meant to end the line, not Grand Theft America. So the writers had to wait for it to happen, nevermind the delays. But like Bendis said, when it comes to Grand Theft America, he couldn't say a thing about it in his book because of the delays!
Why I still think they should of had a mini or used the annuals after GTA that contains the stories of the rest of the heroes on that day and also place it in continuity of the other books.
 

Captain Canuck

The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Why I still think they should of had a mini or used the annuals after GTA that contains the stories of the rest of the heroes on that day and also place it in continuity of the other books.
oooh, that wold have been cool!
 

Zeek

Well-Known Member
Ultimatum was meant to end the line, not Grand Theft America. So the writers had to wait for it to happen, nevermind the delays. But like Bendis said, when it comes to Grand Theft America, he couldn't say a thing about it in his book because of the delays!
Oh, I know why it wasn't a major event. I should have worded that better. I more meant that it SHOULD HAVE BEEN a major event. And, in a fair, just world, Ultimatum wouldn't have happened at all, because it's easily among the worst comics ever written. You can't really say it was "meant" to end the line, because it's hardly something that was foreshadowed. It kinda just...happened. There was no (real) leadup, no real impact (outside of USM), nothing. GTA, on the other hand, tied in nice and well thematically with the UU up to that point, and it would have been nice to see the other Ultimate books cash in on its themes. Might've given the Liberators a bit of chance to be developed, too. Oh well.
 

Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
Oh, I know why it wasn't a major event. I should have worded that better. I more meant that it SHOULD HAVE BEEN a major event. And, in a fair, just world, Ultimatum wouldn't have happened at all, because it's easily among the worst comics ever written. You can't really say it was "meant" to end the line, because it's hardly something that was foreshadowed. It kinda just...happened. There was no (real) leadup, no real impact (outside of USM), nothing. GTA, on the other hand, tied in nice and well thematically with the UU up to that point, and it would have been nice to see the other Ultimate books cash in on its themes. Might've given the Liberators a bit of chance to be developed, too. Oh well.
I agree the themes throughout Ultimates 2 were shown all over the UU, I loved idea of a upcoming genetic war, a super human arms race. I was really excited to see what problems like that the Ultimates would have faced after they went independent. Then Ultimatum basically threw that all away
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
If Punisher is indeed involved it should be under EXTREME protest. Or coercion.
I'm sure some coercion or form of blackmail will be a motivator for Punisher, but I don't think its too big a stretch. After all, his "mission" is to wipe out criminals, the objectives are kind of parallel--though for the Ultimate Black Ops its a global scale as opposed to city-wide for Punisher's personal mission. Its not too much of a stretch.
 

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