Ultimate Knights (USM Spoilers)

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Venom Melendez said:
I already said it wouldnt make sence.

Then why did you bring up the Runaways team, they had nothing to do with this conversation. Frankly that was the point I made in the first place, since Ultimate Tandy has a family and is start pupil at school, the mob would not kidnap her and experiment on her so she has no motive to go against Kingpin and be on this team. If your agreeing with that point then what was the point of your first post?
 

Void.M

Well-Known Member
She was in Marvel Way before the runaways though so that wouldnt matter.She's not part of the runaway team rigth now.as for powers they could say she was a mutant.still wouldnt fit in Mob fighting.


the other par was simply missunder standing jeez .
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
vintsukka said:
There's just a girl named Tandy Bowen in Peter's school, that's all. They could always make Dagger out of someone else.

The vast majority of Ultimate characters retain her 616 names, why introduce Tandy Brown and have someone be Dagger, that's just jarring. Its like introducing a character called Otto Octavius and having someone else be Dr. Octopus, its jarring. If they wanted to make someone else Dagger in the Ultimate Universe then why introduce Tandy in the first place, that is just confusing.
 

Foolsfolly

Well-Known Member
Worse thing about the Ultimate Universe is that Bendis gets to drop names without thinking about other writers or furture.

Like Omega Red, Deadpool, Dagger, and so many other ultimatizations that seem to fall short.

Meh- Just mad they'll have to do sumersults to get Dagger in the universe without making her a mutant. And I don't like the idea of them being mutants in this universe.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Foolsfolly said:
Worse thing about the Ultimate Universe is that Bendis gets to drop names without thinking about other writers or furture.

Like Omega Red, Deadpool, Dagger, and so many other ultimatizations that seem to fall short.

Meh- Just mad they'll have to do sumersults to get Dagger in the universe without making her a mutant. And I don't like the idea of them being mutants in this universe.

That's one problem I've noticed is the ultimate Universe is almost never willing to take somewhat lame B list villains in the 616 universe and make them cooler, like Bruce Timm did with some of the goofier Batman villains like Mr. Freeze and Mad Hatter. Instead of becomming deeper characters, perhaps make them more tragic or at least give them a better motive, they become bigger jokes (like Shocker) which seems like a waste.

That is why I think some of the more B-list DD villains would benefit from a Ultimate Knights title, writen by someone other than Bendis, they could become deeper characters, check MWoF and my ideas on revamping them in our DD rogues thread. Just because a chacter is lame in the 616 universe, doesn't mean they should be lame in the Ultimate Universe. Of course there are exceptions, some characters like Matador, Leap-Frog and Stilt-Man, it would take a miracle to make them cool and they would likely work better as joke characters. But other B-list villains like Mr. Fear, Purple Man, Mr. Hyde, Owl, Bushwacker and some very lame characters like Ringmaster and Man-Bull could become interesting if they are overhauled completely.
 
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Gemini

Well-Known Member
The Overlord said:
The vast majority of Ultimate characters retain her 616 names, why introduce Tandy Brown and have someone be Dagger, that's just jarring. Its like introducing a character called Otto Octavius and having someone else be Dr. Octopus, its jarring. If they wanted to make someone else Dagger in the Ultimate Universe then why introduce Tandy in the first place, that is just confusing.
the same reason they introduced A eddie brock that worked for a newspaper then they made another one that was a college student

the same reason there was a kid saying he was a criminal with a giant scorpion tail in peters school then then the new scorpion showed up
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
gemini-mk said:
the same reason they introduced A eddie brock that worked for a newspaper then they made another one that was a college student

the same reason there was a kid saying he was a criminal with a giant scorpion tail in peters school then then the new scorpion showed up

I am not sure care for that, its a bit confusing and sloppy. But fine, I guess its as good way as any to get us out of this jam.
 
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The Overlord

Well-Known Member
There is another important issue, Shang Chi's backstory. I believe it was revealed that Fu Manchu is Shang Chi's father in Ultimate team Up 15, however since a lot of the stuff in Ultimate Team Up has been deemed of not being in contiunity then perhaps the ID of Shang Chi's father. I'm not saying that just because of Fu Manchu "yellow pearl" past, but Fu Manchu was not created by marvel comics and there for there may be legal issues with using him, unless they put in the shadows and not mention his real name, like they do in the 616 universe, which would be kinda lame.

One option is to make Kirigi the leader of the Hand Shang Chi's father. Kirigi had a fling with a peasant while visiting various crime lords in China. After a few years, Kirigi discover that peasant bore his son. Kirigi had the peasant woman killed and took Shang Chi to Japan to be raised as his heir. Shang did not knowing Kirigi had his mother killed and was happy training under Kirigi. But when Shang Chi disocer the true nature of the Hand, he was disgusted and ran away. Because Shang Chi is half Chinese and half Japanese he would be treated with scorn in both China and Japan, so moved to the US to find his way, little knowing that his father would be planning on regaining his heir.
 

Foolsfolly

Well-Known Member
God I could beat Bendis with a stack of his own books for the mess that his Ultimate Marvel Team Up book as become. 13 issues that still throw the whole universe into chaos.
 

Gouka Ryuu

Well-Known Member
Firstly, by dropping names Bendis is doing nothing wrong. For one thing, this is an alternate universe and not everyone will turn out the same! Yes, it might be confusing but it still works if there is a Dagger in UU witha different ID than the one from 616. The way Bendis dropped the name works too. I could see Tandy Bowen as a girl that is pushed to the limit to succeed by her parents. She can't take it and runs away with a friend that is also having family problems (Cloak). The rest of the story could work from there. About Shang Chi, when I looked at wikipedia it said Manchu was his father, in both universes, so I stuck with it. I had a better idea then Gladiator though he could still have some connection(like he was illegally geneticly tampered with by Manchu). What if Manchu sends the hardest foe Shang Chi could ever deal with, his sister, who would be just as profiecent in martial arts but either too clouded by love for her father tosee what he does is wrong or she agrees with it.
 
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Victor Von Doom

Fist of teh Internets.
thee great one said:
My mind before coming into this thread...

earth.jpg


My mind after reading 90% of the posts in this thread...

earth02.jpg


My thoughts exactly.....
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Victor Von Doom said:
My thoughts exactly.....

Oh quit being such a downer, this is fun.

Gouka Ryuu said:
Firstly, by dropping names Bendis is doing nothing wrong. For one thing, this is an alternate universe and not everyone will turn out the same! Yes, it might be confusing but it still works if there is a Dagger in UU witha different ID than the one from 616. The way Bendis dropped the name works too. I could see Tandy Bowen as a girl that is pushed to the limit to succeed by her parents. She can't take it and runs away with a friend that is also having family problems (Cloak). The rest of the story could work from there. About Shang Chi, when I looked at wikipedia it said Manchu was his father, in both universes, so I stuck with it. I had a better idea then Gladiator though he could still have some connection(like he was illegally geneticly tampered with by Manchu). What if Manchu sends the hardest foe Shang Chi could ever deal with, his sister, who would be just as profiecent in martial arts but either too clouded by love for her father tosee what he does is wrong or she agrees with it.

But thing is I don't think Marvel have has the rights to the Fu Manchu anymore, so legally they couldn't use that name, so unless Marvel wants to get into an legal battle with the estate of Sax Rohmer, they would have to use someone else as Shang Chi father. So that is a very good reason why Shang Chi's father can't be Fu Manchu. as for Gladiator the whole experiment thing seems a bit cliched, its more realstic when he is just a big psychotic guy and frankly either way Gladiator is too psychotic to work for Kingpin or anyone else for that matter.

I don't care for the name dropping, it seems sloppy to me. It seems like Bendis could care else that other writers may want to introduce such Ultimate Universe, if they wanted to create a new Dagger they shouldn't have introduced Tandy Bowen, that's just jarring. Writers should be careful introducing characters and not do in such a sloppy manner.
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
Am I the only one who doesnt think Bendis has done any damage?

He said a few names. He didnt ruin anything and most of Ultimate Team-Up is in continuity just not the UFF one.

You guys are fussing about nothing at all. And your turning and awesome topic into a thread I feel like avoiding now.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
TheManWithoutFear said:
Am I the only one who doesnt think Bendis has done any damage?

He said a few names. He didnt ruin anything and most of Ultimate Team-Up is in continuity just not the UFF one.

You guys are fussing about nothing at all. And your turning and awesome topic into a thread I feel like avoiding now.

Really now they may be details, but the devil is always in the details, you have be really careful when introducing characters to the Ultimate Universe.

But I suppose your right, we can leave rangling over such matters for some other time and focus on the more fun aspects of this speculation. Do you think an Ultimate Knights title will be a good to introduce revamped versions of B list DD vilains?
 
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Void.M

Well-Known Member
The Overlord said:
Really now they may be details, but the devil is always in the details, you have be really careful when introducing characters to the Ultimate Universe.

But I suppose your right, we can leave rangling over such matters for some other time and focus on the more fun aspects of this speculation. Do you think an Ultimate Knights title will be a good to introduce revamped versions of B list DD vilains?


Why stop with DD villians? why not some of Moon Knights too. and some others like The hand (only if Iron fist and Shang-shi are are part of the Knights) or ofcourse they could be involved with Electra in some way

But i also think the should figth other mob bosses other than Kingpin,Like Hammerhead and such.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Venom Melendez said:
Why stop with DD villians? why not some of Moon Knights too. and some others like The hand (only if Iron fist and Shang-shi are are part of the Knights) or ofcourse they could be involved with Electra in some way

But i also think the should figth other mob bosses other than Kingpin,Like Hammerhead and such.

Well who are Moon Knight's villains?

Hammerhead is dead in the UU, no point in bring him back. Besides there are others who can fulfill the role of rival crime boss like Owl. Also Elektra is a DD villain.

Again villains from the heroes can be included, but they seem even more merger then DD's rogues gallery. Shang Chi for example mainly fought Fu Manchu and he can't be used for legal reasons. I mean besides Steel Serpent what other villains from Iron Fist's rogues can be included? What villains from these other heroes rogues galleries would work for this title?
 

Foolsfolly

Well-Known Member
I guess over all it isn't too bad. Except there's so many little details that don't hold together and this universe has only been around for 5 years.

Like Eddie Brock as a journalist and then he's a kid. Or that Pete and Eddie's father went to collage with Reed Richards, who in UMTU went to collage with Iron Man, and Reed is still a kid.

They're little details but they multiply like crazy and Card and Bendis are behind them all.

Neither one can hold to continuty from a 5 year old universe. And that's sloppy writing.

And I think Ultimate Knights needs villains from all the rogues galleries of those in the group. Not just Daredevil's. Otherwise it plays more like Daredevil and his Amazing Friends insead of Ultimate Knights were each member has important villains to fight.
 

Foolsfolly

Well-Known Member
The Overlord said:
Well who are Moon Knight's villains?

Hammerhead is dead in the UU, no point in bring him back. Besides there are others who can fulfill the role of rival crime boss like Owl. Also Elektra is a DD villain.

Again villains from the heroes can be included, but they seem even more merger then DD's rogues gallery. Shang Chi for example mainly fought Fu Manchu and he can't be used for legal reasons. I mean besides Steel Serpent what other villains from Iron Fist's rogues can be included? What villains from these other heroes rogues galleries would work for this title?


I gave a list on a previous page that was a mix of different villains not just Daredevil villains.

Villains could be: Kingpin, Bullseye, Punisher (although let the guy rest some), Elektra, Fu Manchu, Enforcers, Jack O'Lantern, Typhoid Mary, Arcade, Boomerang, Electro, Owl, Shocker (it's time he gets some respect), Tombstone, Taskmaster, Viper, and Roald Bushman.

That's enough to pick and choose for a few minis. And still not resort to just a Kingpin throw down. Although that would be fun!
 

Gouka Ryuu

Well-Known Member
Wikipedia says Hammerhead was put into a coma because of the Warriors arc. It is possible he could come back after waking up and escaping authorities.
 

Foolsfolly

Well-Known Member
Good God Hammerhead's still alive?

Is his mutant power the ablity to slowly heal while in a coma? His head was blown by Gambit in Ultimate X-Men 14. Then Elektra stabs him in the chest and throws him out of a window in Ultimate Spider-Man!

All Beast got was some rubble that covered his legs and he was DOA.
 
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