Ultimate Magneto Question

The Overlord

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Why is Ultimate Magneto such a jerk? It seems to me that instead of being Malcolm X like he was 616 MU, he is like Osama Bin Laden. He comes as a hateful, one dimensional, psychopath. Does anyone know why that is?
 

Caduceus

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I wouldn't say he's a jerk, more that he's a full blown bad guy. He hasn't been watered down by the consistent reinvention and redefining of the 616 version. He hasn't been good then bad then dead then a baby then a bad baby then good then bad and so on. He is, in my opinion, a more powerful character because of it. He's convinced he's right and he's doing what he can to achieve his goals.
 

Ice

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Caduceus said:
I wouldn't say he's a jerk, more that he's a full blown bad guy. He hasn't been watered down by the consistent reinvention and redefining of the 616 version. He hasn't been good then bad then dead then a baby then a bad baby then good then bad and so on. He is, in my opinion, a more powerful character because of it. He's convinced he's right and he's doing what he can to achieve his goals.
That's a great way to put it. :)

No, really.
 

The Overlord

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Caduceus said:
I wouldn't say he's a jerk, more that he's a full blown bad guy. He hasn't been watered down by the consistent reinvention and redefining of the 616 version. He hasn't been good then bad then dead then a baby then a bad baby then good then bad and so on. He is, in my opinion, a more powerful character because of it. He's convinced he's right and he's doing what he can to achieve his goals.

I must disagree, Magneto as a gray character is more interesting and complex, then Magneto as a evil caricature. Ultimate Magneto comes off as being as complex as the villain from a bad action movie, he is just another boring, one dimensional, racist psychopath. He does nasty things for seemly no reason, killing the Animal evolutionaries and wishing that his wife has died in child birth. I mean when Quicksilver joins the Ultimates and Magneto blows his knee caps off, is there any reason given for his extreme response, besides the fact that he is evil. Personally I think the gray area Magneto is more realistic and interesting than Ultimate Magneto.
 

Caduceus

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The Overlord said:
I must disagree, Magneto as a gray character is more interesting and complex, then Magneto as a evil caricature. Ultimate Magneto comes off as being as complex as the villain from a bad action movie, he is just another boring, one dimensional, racist psychopath. He does nasty things for seemly no reason, killing the Animal evolutionaries and wishing that his wife has died in child birth. I mean when Quicksilver joins the Ultimates and Magneto blows his knee caps off, is there any reason given for his extreme response, besides the fact that he is evil. Personally I think the gray area Magneto is more realistic and interesting than Ultimate Magneto.
Earlier, I'd have agreed with you. The moral debate inherent in his character would be interesting if it hadn't been dragged out, carried on and overused to the point of death. At this point in time, 616 Magneto has been good, bad, good with shades of bad, bad with shades of good, inbetween completely and everything in between. He's not evolving as a character, he's just flipping around from side to side.

Ultimate Magneto on the other had isn't designed to be an ethical character. He's designed to show what having a worldview that revolves around your own belief can make a person do. Killing humansisn't a bad thing to him because humans aren't people. Punishing Quicksilver was a harsh but necessary thing to do. The animal evolutionaries were a perversion of the proper species. He's not a nice character and he's not meant to be.
 

roguefan

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Magneto is a more interesting villain than in 616. We also know why he weant crazy. He thought Xavier was messing with his mind (paranoid) and decided to paralyse him. It was a great change, and I think Millar did great by incuding it. The last writer to use Magneto (Millar) was able to completely reinvent the character, unlike most characters (*cough* Wolverine *cough*).
 

René

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The Overlord said:
I mean when Quicksilver joins the Ultimates and Magneto blows his knee caps off, is there any reason given for his extreme response,

His son has just betrayed him, that's why.

I have to disagree with you. I think this Magneto is just as good as the 616 Magento.

What about when Xavier put the mental blocks in him? When see a Magento that is a pacisfist and not as bad. So the duality of the character is still there, but Magento is more of a badass than a good guy.
 

The Overlord

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To me it seems like Ultimate Magneto's character is almost exactly like the Red Skull's, their both people who justify their actions through racist ideologies, but deep down their twisted SOBs who who secretly enjoy causing pain.

Edit: At this point Ultimate Magneto just seems like the Red Skull with magnetic powers.
 
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The Overlord

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René said:
His son has just betrayed him, that's why.

I have to disagree with you. I think this Magneto is just as good as the 616 Magento.

What about when Xavier put the mental blocks in him? When see a Magento that is a pacisfist and not as bad. So the duality of the character is still there, but Magento is more of a badass than a good guy.

The pacisfist Magneto was merely created by Xavier and thus is not a true extension of the character. Has Magneto ever become pacisfist since regaining his memory.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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I like the characters equally...

But at the moment Ultimate Magneto intrigues me more, because we havent seen what he's fully capable of yet. He still has decades of stories to tell.
 

Goodwill

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The Overlord said:
Why is Ultimate Magneto such a jerk? It seems to me that instead of being Malcolm X like he was 616 MU, he is like Osama Bin Laden. He comes as a hateful, one dimensional, psychopath. Does anyone know why that is?

I think that was just what Millar had in mind for his character, that's all. ;)
 

E

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The Overlord said:
The pacisfist Magneto was merely created by Xavier and thus is not a true extension of the character. Has Magneto ever become pacisfist since regaining his memory.

And I think that makes a lot more sense rather than having him flip flop 500 times without rationale.
 

MaxwellSmart

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I disagree with the notion that Ultimate Magneto doesn't have any depth. When we first see his history he isn't a human killer. He was a man who simply thought of humans the way human think of apes. As humans became more vicious they lost his indifference and gained his wrath.
 

Goodwill

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To say that I believe you is true, but he didn't learn from anything... Look at the book he's writing in the UU. Wow. He's captured by these people and he still hasn't noticed he was wrong. That's not being deep.
 

TheManWithoutFear

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MaxwellSmart said:
I disagree with the notion that Ultimate Magneto doesn't have any depth. When we first see his history he isn't a human killer. He was a man who simply thought of humans the way human think of apes. As humans became more vicious they lost his indifference and gained his wrath.

Agreed. Who the hell sad Ultmate Magneto had no depth?
 

ourchair

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TheManWithoutFear said:
Agreed. Who the hell sad Ultmate Magneto had no depth?
I think the problem is we're equating depth with moral uncertainty. Which is totally fallacious notion to me. That's like saying a neurotic superhero like Spider-Man is necessarily more "complex" than a resolute one like Batman or Superman.

The only difference between 616 Magneto and Ultimate Magneto is that the latter is more resolute about his intentions and less ambiguous. He knows exactly what he wants --- the dominion of civilization by his species --- and never wavers in the pursuit of that goal.

And that goal is not as two-dimensional as it appears: it is driven by his personal belief that the strong shall live and the weak shall die. (See also Makoto Shishio from Rurouni Kenshin). Which I think makes him a stronger character.

I don't think Magneto should ever be depicted as overly considerate towards others without undermining what the character is all about. Having suffered the horrors of a Nazi camp, he has learned that power and domination is merely a tool to assert your survival, and "consideration" towards the human race compromises that.

Magneto should never waver, he should never pause. For when he does, his belief in the homo superior weakens its resolve. The real Magneto is the ultimate embodiment of his philosophy.

::bows::
 

Goodwill

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I see what you're saying, but you don't think that can be mistaken for the fact that Millar writes characters one way or another? In all my days reading comics, there is no grey area with characters. Sure, in the Ultimates, he's got a lot of colorful people in that book, but there intentions are all the same...
 

ourchair

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Goodwill said:
I see what you're saying, but you don't think that can be mistaken for the fact that Millar writes characters one way or another? In all my days reading comics, there is no grey area with characters. Sure, in the Ultimates, he's got a lot of colorful people in that book, but there intentions are all the same...
I DO think that it can be mistaken for that fact. I agree. But my point is that not all "two-dimensional" monochromatic characters are completely shallow.

It's the same reason I consider "stupidly juvenile" characters like Punisher and Wolverine completely compelling. It's the same reason I defend DC characters like Batman and Superman against Marvelites, even if I am myself, not much of a big DC fan.

As you said, the Ultimates all have the same intentions. Normally, I'd dispute that fact, but assuming you're correct, it doesn't make the Ultimates any less interesting or complex. It just means that they each have a singularness of purpose.
 

cmdrjanjalani

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My only problem with Ultimate Magneto is I don't see why he chose to follow that ideology in the first place. UXM #26 was supposed to depict Magneto's "origin" but it seemed that he was already ruthless even while they were still really good friends.

I always believe that people will only be influenced by extremist ideologies when he encounters a personal experience that drives him to do that. I don't see that yet in Ultimate Magneto. I like the fact that he is ruthless and cold-hearted, uncompromising in following his beliefs, which is very similar to the terrorists of today (and I think that's what Millar wanted to do). The problem is I still don't know why he is like that today. It is still hinted in the UU that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch's mother is human (I think Xavier mentioned it in UXM 26) so that would be a good jumping point. I hope this gets explained to some degree in the new Magneto arc.
 

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