Ultimate Red Skull

Langsta

Well-Known Member
It's obvious that the Colonel from Ultimates 2 was intented to be a....an "analogue" of 616's Red Skull (he may have also been inspired by Red Guardian from 616's People Protectorate, a Soviet team of superheroes that included the 616 versions of Perun and Crimson Dynamo, who in the Ultimate universe are the Colonel's Liberator teammates).

Even though the Colonel was killed by Cap at the end of the Grand Theft America arc, it says on Wikipedia that his body was taken by SHIELD and send to Dr. Brankin after he died. It also says that in the Director's Commentary of the Ultimates 2 hardback, it is revealed that the Colonel was originally intended to be boiled in the fountain where he "died," surviving to become the Ultimate Red Skull.

Discuss.
 
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E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
it is revealed that the Colonel was originally intended to be boiled in the fountain where he "died," surviving to become the Ultimate Red Skull.

Discuss.

And the serum would have kept him alive? Hmmm...

I will say that it sounds infinitely better than having Venom 5 sizes too big busting in on the Ultimates ranting about nothing that makes any sense.

That's an interesting idea. I have the hardcover but haven't bothered reading the backmatter yet.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
And the serum would have kept him alive? Hmmm...

I will say that it sounds infinitely better than having Venom 5 sizes too big busting in on the Ultimates ranting about nothing that makes any sense.

That's an interesting idea. I have the hardcover but haven't bothered reading the backmatter yet.

An arc about the ultimates filling out their tax returns would have been better than Loeb's BS.
 

Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
As I remember he was suppose to only really be a match for Cap's character, not an ultimatization of anyone.
And the serum would have kept him alive? Hmmm...

I will say that it sounds infinitely better than having Venom 5 sizes too big busting in on the Ultimates ranting about nothing that makes any sense.

That's an interesting idea. I have the hardcover but haven't bothered reading the backmatter yet.

I recall hearing that if Millar continued he would use Red Skull, I'm glad they didn't us Colonel for that role. I feel the role he play and the way he died was perfect and he should not be revived
 

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
As I remember he was suppose to only really be a match for Cap's character, not an ultimatization of anyone.

I recall hearing that if Millar continued he would use Red Skull, I'm glad they didn't us Colonel for that role. I feel the role he play and the way he died was perfect and he should not be revived
Actually, he was originally going to be Ultimate Red Skull, as officially stated by Millar in an interview. Of course, this was MONTHS before the second arc started, so things had changed.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
The question could an Ultimate red Skull be half as interesting as Brubaker's Red Skull?

The fact that he Red Skull is the most evil human being in the marvel universe is what makes him interesting.
 

Foolsfolly

Well-Known Member
Actually, he was originally going to be Ultimate Red Skull, as officially stated by Millar in an interview. Of course, this was MONTHS before the second arc started, so things had changed.

Which is seriously for the best, given how little of a character the Colonel was.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Which is seriously for the best, given how little of a character the Colonel was.

He got some characterization, at least we knew he wasn't a total dick like other members of the Liberators.

Most of the Liberators were throwaway characters, but i didn't mind because most the 616 characters they were based off were throwaway characters too and they served an important story purpose.

I think the spirit of the Red Skull is that he is pure evil, that's what makes the character works. When you have a Skull for a face and a name like the red Skull, you aren't going for a sympathetic villain here.
 
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Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
Most of the Liberators were throwaway characters, but i didn't mind because the 616 characters they were based off were throwaway characters too and they served an important story purpose.

Yeah they were just meant to be the Anti-Ultimates a vision of what the Ultimates may have become. Colonel fulfilled this role better than the others, because they were just ******* versions of the Ultimates, Colonel was basically Cap of a different people which is a great dynamic. For the red skull, no that would not work. As you said Skull is pure evil and that's what works for him
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Yeah they were just meant to be the Anti-Ultimates a vision of what the Ultimates may have become. Colonel fulfilled this role better than the others, because they were just ******* versions of the Ultimates, Colonel was basically Cap of a different people which is a great dynamic. For the red skull, no that would not work. As you said Skull is pure evil and that's what works for him

The only problem is I thought Ultimate abomination was killed off too quickly, but oh well.

I think the colonel is interesting in his own way, he is like a twisted version of Captain America. He truly believes he is right and is fighting for a cause he believes in, just like cap. He doesn't do evil things just for the heck of it, everything he does serves what he believes is a greater good.

That's interesting, but that's not the Red Skull. The thing that makes Cap and skull's relationship interesting is Cap is 100% right and the Skull is 100% wrong. Unlike Doom or magneto who are villains but have some good qualities, there is nothing positive about the Skull, he does cruel and sadistic things all the time, often for no real reason. Only someone who is insane who agree with the Skull or feel sorry for him.

If Ultimate Skull isn't pure evil, what's the point?
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
There's been like three Ultimate Crimson Dynamos. There may yet be another Abomination.

The difference is there are 11 Crimson Dynamos in the 616 universe, so the fact there is more than one in the UU isn't surprising. Crimson Dynamo is the Ultimate throwaway character.

Abomination is an important character in the 616 universe, he is one of the few good villains the hulk has. He should have at least put up a better fight against the Hulk.

That's the difference, Crimson Dynamo has always been a throwaway character, abomination has not.
 

Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
The difference is there are 11 Crimson Dynamos in the 616 universe, so the fact there is more than one in the UU isn't surprising. Crimson Dynamo is the Ultimate throwaway character.

Abomination is an important character in the 616 universe, he is one of the few good villains the hulk has. He should have at least put up a better fight against the Hulk.

That's the difference, Crimson Dynamo has always been a throwaway character, abomination has not.

I agree, but you could still bring back abomination, just another guy using the same formula just upgraded, I don't think they gave his real name.
 

Foolsfolly

Well-Known Member
Since most of the Liberators were produced, I do think they can all come back. They were just there to be punched and they were fun villains to watch the heroes dismember, but if they want something big a yellow/green for the Hulk to punch there just might still be a serum somewhere, or a surviving test subject.

The only problem with that, to me, is that there's no real connection between Abomination and the Hulk and why they should fight other than having similar power levels.

But there's simply a large part of me which doesn't give a rat's *** anymore about the Ultimates.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Since most of the Liberators were produced, I do think they can all come back. They were just there to be punched and they were fun villains to watch the heroes dismember, but if they want something big a yellow/green for the Hulk to punch there just might still be a serum somewhere, or a surviving test subject.

The only problem with that, to me, is that there's no real connection between Abomination and the Hulk and why they should fight other than having similar power levels.

But there's simply a large part of me which doesn't give a rat's *** anymore about the Ultimates.

Yes they could make another Abomination, but what would be the point? How this one be different than the last one, that hulk dispatched in short order.

There is more to a character than just powers, 616 Abomination isn't just a dangerous villain because he has the same powers the Hulk, he is also intelligent and ruthless, he was the one who killed Betty Ross (she is still dead, BTW.)

Chang Lam just doesn't seem as dangerous Emil Blonsky, that's why I think he is the only member of the Liberators that was wasted. The rest of the Liberators were based on total throwaway characters, but not Abomination, he deserved a bit better. However that is my only complaint about the Liberators, I liked the rest of them.

Anyway back on topic, the problem is I'm not sure where they can fit the Skull in the Ultimate Universe. Klesier is Cap's WWII foe and the colonel is the anti Cap, so what does that leave for the Skull? At this point if Red skull does show up in the UU, bendis would likely make hima bank robber wearing a skull mask who gets defeated by spidey in 3 panels.
 

Void.M

Well-Known Member
There is more to a character than just powers, 616 Abomination isn't just a dangerous villain because he has the same powers the Hulk, he is also intelligent and ruthless, he was the one who killed Betty Ross (she is still dead, BTW.)

Wich is why Hulk was shgging with hot alien chicks.
 

Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
Yes they could make another Abomination, but what would be the point?
You kind of answered your own questioned
There is more to a character than just powers, 616 Abomination isn't just a dangerous villain because he has the same powers the Hulk, he is also intelligent and ruthless, he was the one who killed Betty Ross (she is still dead, BTW.)

Chang Lam just doesn't seem as dangerous Emil Blonsky
By focusing on the character Blonsky and perhaps beefing up the abomination serum. Abomination isn't completely thrown away, you can still do a very good ultimatzation of Emil Blonsky and still fit in with U2
Anyway back on topic, the problem is I'm not sure where they can fit the Skull in the Ultimate Universe. Klesier is Cap's WWII foe and the colonel is the anti Cap, so what does that leave for the Skull?
I would like skull to come about in a new manner, something original but still holds the same sense of evil and threatening the 616 version had. Handled by a really good writer this could be great. Instead of having him someone only connected to Cap, have him be a new villain threating the world and eventually becoming extremely hateful of Cap. Lets see their meeting and development in the present instead of a flash back
At this point if Red skull does show up in the UU, bendis would likely make hima bank robber wearing a skull mask who gets defeated by spidey in 3 panels.
GOD DON'T GIVE THEM TEH IDEAZ!!!!!
 

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