Ultimate Spider-Man #77 (SPOILERS)

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
USM #77 came out today, and I was happily surprised with the issue...up until the last few pages. **I will be listing spoilers so if you don't want to know, skip over this post.**

Issue started out with the continuation of Peter and Harry's fight. Harry asks Pete to kill him, Pete says he can help him. Harry then resumes freaking out and fighting with Pete due to his Shaw hallucination prompting him to do so. Eventually, the fight ends up on the news, which in turn breaks into an interview Nick Fury is giving to a reporter at the Triskelion. Nick immediately recognizes the monster as Harry and gets things going to bring him in. A SHIELD agent discusses Harry's transformation, saying he didn't believe it could be Harry because they'd been monitoring his blood samples daily for months and there'd been no sign of mutation (this is interesting). But then we get to the best part of the whole book in my opinion, with the debut of the Ultimate Hulkbuster suits! Fury and his team put on the suits and set out to bring Harry in. Meanwhile, Pete and Harry are still fighting when the SHIELD team arives. The Hulkbusters open fire on Harry and take him down. Pete argues with Fury about him taking Harry in, as "...He's only a kid." Fury ignores Pete until he cold-cocks him. In doing so, we get a nice panel of Fury's eye-patch flying off and a nice view of his big, empty eye socket. The SHIELD team zaps Pete until Fury calls them off, and orders Pete to go home. Pete swings off and Fury utters that he thinks its time Parker lost his powers. Pete goes to MJ's, and proceeds to whine about not being able to trust her and not wanting her to get killed for being close to him, and basically breaks up with her. THE END

I liked this issue. The Hulkbuster armor was a very cool surprise, and it was interesting to see that Harry was left alive at the end and merely taken into SHIELD custody. This means that, at least for the immediate future, Harry won't be playing a role in the life of Peter...instead he'll be locked up like daddy, just not frozen. This does, however, set up a future escape and rampage for father and son Goblins. I really wasn't expecting Fury to set in motion taking Peter's powers from him. Its conceivable SHIELD has the ability, after all in Ultimate Six they were able to use gene therapy to supposedly surpress the villains genetic mutation while they were incarcerated...though apparently not totally as is evident by Osborn's freaking out and their eventual escape. Anyway, back to point. Its obvious Bendis setting up to take the classic Spider-Man tale and ultimize it. We've already had Peter's moanings about how he was giving up the vigilante life, but he's been easily drawn back in. If SHIELD were to strip him of his powers, against his will or with it, he truly would be "Spider-Man No More!!!!" It'd be interesting to see. Maybe this will be the arc leading up to #100? We haven't been given a preview of what to expect for #95-99 other than a "Countdown to 100" description. Anyway, #77 was overall a pretty decent issue and good ending to this arc. What'd you all think?
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
The issue was about a B+ . It was all right but it still didn't save the arc. I'm not happy about a lot of things that happened. I'm not happy Harry's still alive and now we have two Goblins locked up. I'm not happy that Shaw wasn't explained or that Shaw's objective was only to make Harry kill himself. Seeing how this arc's main point was to ultimize the Hobgoblin I think it failed terribly. I didn't like anything about the character with the exception that it was Harry and I know even some people didn't like that.

No Ultimates (Alpha Team?)? I think that was ****in' Iron Man flying around outside when they showed the Trisk. STUPID MISTAKE! Ultimate Hulkbusters? If you're going to bring in another character's mythology into another title make an effort. At least it could've been lead by "Agent Talbot". And Hulk killed Ultimate Iron Man how the hell do you think these rocketeer wannabes are gonna do. Not cool...

As for Fury, I completely understand his taking down Hobgoblin and what went on between him and Peter. I mean what does Peter think is gonna happen? Harry at this point is not going to sit down and talk it over. Once again, proving how immature and really bad at handleing situations Spider-Man is. Let's just say I never see him in a leadership role in the future. But I'm sure when Moonknight hands his *** over to him that's when the character change will begin. As for Fury's plans for Peter. Fine there's our big twist. But seriously what the hell? He's praising him at one point and now he wants to strip him? Unless it's because he feels bad for Peter, which is not the vibe I was getting at all from the panel, than that's the only plausible excuse that I'll accept. Otherwise, I didn't like what Fury was saying at the end.

Peter/MJ: Obviously expected. God help this title if MJ and Mark Raxton hook up next issue. That will completely taint Peter and MJ's relationship and just make MJ look like a big slut. Pete's next girl is not going to be an ordinary citizen. That is obvious.

Overall hated the arc.
 

jtg3885

Banned
Reminds me why I've just cut to buying the HCs. Maybe we'll get lucky and Bendis will detail out a much better Hobgoblin arc (ala the Venom arc in HC 3), and we can all read that and pretend it happened instead...
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
jtg3885 said:
Reminds me why I've just cut to buying the HCs. Maybe we'll get lucky and Bendis will detail out a much better Hobgoblin arc (ala the Venom arc in HC 3), and we can all read that and pretend it happened instead...

Or... Bendis can stop ****in' around with this title and deliver. I have nothing against Bendis but the quality of this as of late, compared to New Avengers and Daredevil, is just terrible. I have no interest in the next issue whatsoever either .... "Dumped"? :roll: I don't care....

Not too mention this is the last USM before I leave.... it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
TheManWithoutFear said:
The issue was about a B+ . It was all right but it still didn't save the arc.

Agreed, but it came close. I'd also give it a B+/A-, and the rest of the arc was bad enough to make this issue almost worth the whole thing.

DIrishB - great points, and I agree with just about everything you said. Bringing out the Hulkbusters was cool, and the bit about Fury saying maybe it's time to relieve Peter of his powers was MUCH needed - too many of the arcs lately have been totally self-contained and nothing glues concurrent arcs together; at least it doesn't feel like it. Now we have something to keep in the back of our minds again - nice.
 

Lynx

Well-Known Member
Eh, not bad. I have a few gripes (And one major gripe) about both this issue and the arc as a whole. The Hulkbusters were cool but. . .why would they have them if they have the Ultimates? Isn't that what the Ultimates were put together for? And why would they make a "Hulkbuster" unit if they captured the Hulk? In case of a break out? Once again, isn't that what the Ultimates are for? The ONLY reason I can think of is everyone's preparing for Gah Lak Tus, and they need a team for "minor threats" like the Hulk. Also, we have NO idea why Harry is the Hobgoblin and why SHIELD can't see it, we have no idea who or what Shaw is (Bendis didn't even succesfully show him as a hallucination), and now we have TWO Goblins locked up. Sure, that'd be a cool fight down the road, but we have NO resolution for now. I like how Fury says they're going to get rid of Spidey's powers but. . .how? They couldn't counteract the OZ formula in Norman. . .why would they able to in Spidey? I like that MJ is out of the picture, sets up Pete's next G/F (I'm guessing Miss Hardy, but who knows). My BIGGEST gripe about this issue is Bendis' (and the editors, for that matter) stupidity when it comes to continuity. WHY, OH WHY is Fury a "Colonel" in this issue!? That is just stupidity. The Ultimates have been established (Hell, Ultimate Six was before this issue), Fury is a GENERAL. Anyway, i'm at the point that I'm just buying Ultimate Spidey just because it's a part of the Ultimate line (And therefore, overall story) and I'm a completist (I have every issue of Ultimate comics out, so. . .). Otherwise, I would have dropped this title. I PRAY Warriors is good. :?
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
Lynx said:
Anyway, i'm at the point that I'm just buying Ultimate Spidey just because it's a part of the Ultimate line (And therefore, overall story) and I'm a completist (I have every issue of Ultimate comics out, so. . .). Otherwise, I would have dropped this title. I PRAY Warriors is good. :?
Exactly... :(
 

Bass

Nexus of the World
This is just sad.

There is a terrible sin writers do called "Deux Ex Machina" which means God in the Machine. Basically, in the old greek plays, things would get bad and just at the climax, where the writer couldn't work out how to end his story, he would have stage hands use a pully to drop actors onto the stage. These actors would play greek gods, like Zeus or Apollo or whatever, and they would go, "You are bad. You are punished. You are good. You are rewarded." the story would end and then the play would be forgotten in time.

Now, to the greek audience, the gods coming down was not as big a deal to them as it is to us now, since the gods were part of their everyday lives. For us, we have instead freak natural disasters like hurricanes, rainstorms, or any other kind of natural "deux ex machina" that the writer goes "hey, it happens in real life".

Well, Bendis has created his gods. In the Marvel universe (616 and U) it's SHIELD and when a story happens, he likes to have a higher authority show up and end his tale for him.

This is the reason I dropped Powers. Every arc would end with the gods (in this case the super people) showing up and ending the story for Walker and Pilgrim. So unsatisifed was I, that I dropped the title. USM and Alias too. Even Disassembled has Strange show up and win using his plot powers.

I've had enough.
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
Well Bass, I disagree Goblins are a major threat and I think should draw the attention of SHIELD. Fury didn't show up when Carnage was around or that many times before it. I just don't think they were used right (I really didn't like "Hulkbusters") but they did have a reason to be in this arc.
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
Lynx said:
The Hulkbusters were cool but. . .why would they have them if they have the Ultimates? Isn't that what the Ultimates were put together for? And why would they make a "Hulkbuster" unit if they captured the Hulk? In case of a break out? Once again, isn't that what the Ultimates are for?

Good point, but there is a difference between a team put together to tackle general threats, and a team put together a specific threat. Hulkbusters have special guns or whatever to neutralize Hulk - sure beats the heck out of fighting him across Manhatten.
 

Bass

Nexus of the World
No, I'm really glad that when the **** comes down, SHIELD can show up and end the story for Peter.

I can't wait for Fury to come along and solve Peter and MJ's break up.
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
MwoF is right. It was established long ago that the Osbourns receive special attention from SHIELD for obvious reasons. I don't see this as anything more; just a continuation.
 

Bass

Nexus of the World
UltimateE said:
MwoF is right. It was established long ago that the Osbourns receive special attention from SHIELD for obvious reasons. I don't see this as anything more; just a continuation.

And I'm sure that the greek playwrights thought it was okay for Zeus to come along and save the day since he'd stated at the beginning that his hero was noted by the gods.

Deux ex machina isn't just 'coincidence to turn an ending' but having the change at the end of the story come from a place other than the protagonist. It's a cheat.

I think it's appalling that Bendis can be applauded as one of the topic comic book writers when he writes this type of story consistently.

Plus, once again, everything happened because someone's having a nervous breakdown.

When did superheroes become "With great power, comes great neuroses"?
 

Lynx

Well-Known Member
I see both sides. I understand (And generally agree) with Bass about Deus Ex Machina being used to end a story. It's bad writing. The story is about PETER and his alter ego Spider-Man, not SHIELD. But, I do understand that SHIELD is involved with everything, and the Osborns have recived special attention from them. Still, it would have been better if Harry had been killed by Peter, or if he somehow found Norman and broke him out. TWO Goblins I could see getting Fury's attention and it would have made more sense. As for the Hulkbusters, I don't understnad why they spend BILLIONS of dollars on the Ultimates to end threats like the Hulk. . .and then a few more billion making a team JUST to take out the Hulk. Especially when he's locked up. That's like creating Magnetobusters. Why would they do that? They have the Ultimates AND the X-men in case he breaks out :wink: (And I know Hulkbusters were in 616, I just don't understand why they were Ultimitized)
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
Lynx said:
I see both sides. I understand (And generally agree) with Bass about Deus Ex Machina being used to end a story. It's bad writing. The story is about PETER and his alter ego Spider-Man, not SHIELD. But, I do understand that SHIELD is involved with everything, and the Osborns have recived special attention from them. Still, it would have been better if Harry had been killed by Peter, or if he somehow found Norman and broke him out. TWO Goblins I could see getting Fury's attention and it would have made more sense. As for the Hulkbusters, I don't understnad why they spend BILLIONS of dollars on the Ultimates to end threats like the Hulk. . .and then a few more billion making a team JUST to take out the Hulk. Especially when he's locked up. That's like creating Magnetobusters. Why would they do that? They have the Ultimates AND the X-men in case he breaks out :wink: (And I know Hulkbusters were in 616, I just don't understand why they were Ultimitized)

Regarding Harry breaking out Norman.... That's what I said should've happened all along. But apparently now that they're both locked up they're gonna end up together somehow. And as much as I hated this arc, I'm still very interested in seeing what Norman has up his sleeve. If Shaw was a device used by Norman, did he really want his son to find a way to kill himself? And what for?

Regarding Hulkbusters..... The Ultimization should've been saved for the mini... I'm pissed...
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
Lynx said:
As for the Hulkbusters, I don't understnad why they spend BILLIONS of dollars on the Ultimates to end threats like the Hulk.

I guess I don't see it that way. If anything, Hulkbusters are an extension of the Ultimates. If anything were to happen with the Hulk, do you want someone who is specifically trained to deal with him, especially considering public sentiment toward him - or just a bunch of powerful people to smack him around (which like I said, didn't work so well in Manhatten)?
 

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