Ultimate Spider-Man #97 discussion (spoilers)

[Goodwill]

Don't we have a thread for this?

 

[Ice]

Don't we have a thread for this?

Nope.

 

[Gemini]

No, it's sue.

I filed a suit.
I sued him.
I am suing.
Sue me.

To sue : 3 a : to seek justice or right from (a person) by legal process; specifically : to bring an action against b : to proceed with and follow up (a legal action) to proper termination
intransitive verb


I hope you are not a native speaker or it'd be embarassing for me to be correcting you.



I like your theory, seems plausible.

For the record, I don't think Shaw was an hallucination through the entire Hobgoblin arc. It could be argued that he was real right until the moment he had to knock out/sedate/Cellar door Harry (my memory is fuzzy on the detail). After that there is no doubt that any further sighting of Shaw is an hallucination. In that interpretation, Norman really left Shaw with instructions which he carried and then he left Harry after the kid started freaking out. From that point on Harry is falling apart and hallucinating Shaw. If he was hallucinating from the first page of the arc, it would have made more sense for his mind to conjure up his therapist or even his father than Shaw who he had hardly ever seen. But if Shaw really showed up, then it makes sense for his mind to use Shaw when he starts to get truly delusional.

I got to re-read.

But that interpretation makes your theory more plausible. Early in the Hobgoblin arc, Shaw revealed that he had deep admiration for Norman Osborn. Harry couldn't have known that and so if Shaw was already an hallucination at that point, Harry would have made that up. But if Shaw was real at that point and therefore truly feel that way, it would make more sense for him to be involved in MJ's kidnapping as part of a revenge.

i hate you

i am a native speaker (calgary) i just suck at english (got 50% last term thank god i passed i could not go through that again)

No, just consistant.

I said that if it's an actual face I want to see every detail of the emotion the character is going through. But a fabric mask is not a face, does not have muscles, and cannot move.

true but look at the spiderman movies spidey looks way more robotic with the mask not changing christ he does'nt even seem to fight like spidey in the movies (there still damn good movies tho)

in the comics it's not so bad just the eyes tend to change to show expression

 

[ProjectX2]

I'm going on E's side, just to prove something. I was watching Spider-man 2 this morning, and we all know the mask doesn't squint or anything. But you can still tell he has emotions. He gets the **** beaten out of him, and his body positions tell us he is sad/angry, etc.

 

[E]

true but look at the spiderman movies spidey looks way more robotic

No, he looks like a guy wearing a mask.

in the comics it's not so bad

Yes it is.

I'm going on E's side, just to prove something. I was watching Spider-man 2 this morning, and we all know the mask doesn't squint or anything. But you can still tell he has emotions. He gets the **** beaten out of him, and his body positions tell us he is sad/angry, etc.

That's exactly what I was saying before. If the artist is good he can portray that without dumb tricks. Same goes for the writer, and even moreso with Spider-man, who can't keep his mouth shut in a fight.

 

[DIrishB]

I don't read manga or watch anime, so I couldn't care less either way. I did bring up the example in the other thread that when my 3-year old watches Teen Titans it's good that they do things like that because he's little and I'm not sure he fully grasps the concept of paying attention to surroundings and surrounding circumstances in order to read a character's emotions. Plus, 99.9999999% of the time it's done for comedic purposes and is grossly exaggerated, to the point where the character's head gets huge and distended, etc.

True, but can't the same reasoning be applied to the mask squinting issue? Considering that USM has a very teen-oriented mood to the title, it can be safely assumed a fair amount of teenagers probably read this book. While your average teenager is probably smarter than your average 3-year-old, I think overall its much tougher to tell a story through a comic book as opposed to live action or animated images, since we're only seeing specific shots (panels) of the action in any given scene. Therefore, as I said before, some dumbing down is required to make it more accessible and absorbable to a wider audience.

Anyway, I've beaten this topic to death. Just don't get your ire for the squinting stuff. I understand your point, just not your vehemenent opposition to it.

I like your theory, seems plausible.

For the record, I don't think Shaw was an hallucination through the entire Hobgoblin arc. It could be argued that he was real right until the moment he had to knock out/sedate/Cellar door Harry (my memory is fuzzy on the detail). After that there is no doubt that any further sighting of Shaw is an hallucination. In that interpretation, Norman really left Shaw with instructions which he carried and then he left Harry after the kid started freaking out. From that point on Harry is falling apart and hallucinating Shaw. If he was hallucinating from the first page of the arc, it would have made more sense for his mind to conjure up his therapist or even his father than Shaw who he had hardly ever seen. But if Shaw really showed up, then it makes sense for his mind to use Shaw when he starts to get truly delusional.

I got to re-read.

But that interpretation makes your theory more plausible. Early in the Hobgoblin arc, Shaw revealed that he had deep admiration for Norman Osborn. Harry couldn't have known that and so if Shaw was already an hallucination at that point, Harry would have made that up. But if Shaw was real at that point and therefore truly feel that way, it would make more sense for him to be involved in MJ's kidnapping as part of a revenge.

My brain just exploded.

Good to see at least someone else thinks it might have some merit, though. Like I said before, I think its all but a foregone conclusion Osborn will be directly or indirectly involved with this arc somehow, though I don't think his involvement will be anywhere near as deep as in the 616 Clone Saga.

Crossbones does a lot of Mask Squinting in Captain America.

So doesn't Deadpool in any title he appears in. Like I said, mask squinting is nothing new in comics.

Yes please.

I can't get over the amount of rationalization behind "needing" mask squinting for a character to convey emotion.

If it's THAT important for people in the story to know what Spider-Man's emotions are, he shouldn't be wearing a mask. It's not necessary.

This statement of course ignores the character motivation of why Spider-Man wears a mask. Its necessary in his fictional world to keep his identity secret and therefore protect his family and friends.

If you as a reader need that, then I'm sorry that you need your comic dumbed down for you.

No one is saying they need it, just that they can understand how others might. You don't have to sling slightly veiled barbs at people you disagree with over this issue, E. Its very un-Admin-like.

Whoa.

It's not something that or readers need (per sey) but something that's just done. I'd like to see how you would show emotion through a mask with a character without the mask squinting. It's not about "dumbing" anything down. It's just showing expression. Wouldn't you say that if something scared someone they should at least look scared? By what you're saying, they should just stay looking as if they were injected by botox and just read them saying what they say.

I think what E's saying is that if someone wearing a mask looks scared, you shouldn't be able to tell...you know, because they're wearing a mask.

I have hopes that it will. I'm really hoping that Bendis delivers on this arc. He's been touting it for so long that I just blew all the other arcs off as filler until "Clone Saga".

Despite the ho-hum of the title as of late---I am still entertained.....but in the same kinda way one is entertained by watching a Rob Schneider movie.

Thats the most perfect summation of the recent USM arcs I've ever read. VVD, you're a genius.

I'm going on E's side, just to prove something. I was watching Spider-man 2 this morning, and we all know the mask doesn't squint or anything. But you can still tell he has emotions. He gets the **** beaten out of him, and his body positions tell us he is sad/angry, etc.

I said this before but I'll say it again...comics and movies are two completely different forms of media. In my opinion, its also much easier to present emotion through a moving image (live action or animation) than through a still image, for the most part. Through the sound of his voice, how strained it is, etc, we can get a feel of the emotions the characters are expressing. You don't have that luxury in comic books, so other ways of expressing emotion are used, sometimes with no logical, real-world parallel (like the mask squinting or the huge eyes and mouths look in anime/manga). Not a good comparison, Proj. Sorry.

That's exactly what I was saying before. If the artist is good he can portray that without dumb tricks. Same goes for the writer, and even moreso with Spider-man, who can't keep his mouth shut in a fight.

Again, this statement is partly true and also partly false. The movie versus comic comparison in this sense is completely short-sighted, considering the visual and audio input of a movie, and only visuals in a comic book. I can't see how someone can blame an artist for trying to use those visuals to maximum advantage in a comic book. It might not make logical sense, but as I said before not much in comic books do.

 

[Ice]

D!B, keep rocking on.

:rockon:

 

[DIrishB]

D!B, keep rocking on.

:rockon:

I couldn't stop if I wanted to...its in my genes.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

I couldn't stop if I wanted to...its in my genes.

The perfect response. The last time a response so perfect was uttered, Princess Leia told Han she loves him and like a pimp he replies "I know".

Perfect.




Yeah it took me a while to figure out why despite the bollocks Bendis has been feeding us, I was entertained. Then I watching FX and they played Rob Schneider's "The Hot Chick". I laughed. I laughed hard. And after it was over I found myself thinking about how much crap that was......and yet still entertained. USM is the "Deuce Bigalow" of the UU.

 

[DIrishB]

The perfect response. The last time a response so perfect was uttered, Princess Leia told Han she loves him and like a pimp he replies "I know".

Perfect.

Like I said, the rockin's in the genes...it can't be helped, but who'd want to anyway? I'm ****ing awesome, and people know it.

 

[Ice]

The Ultimate Spider-Man Vol. 16: Deadpool TP (JUN062017D; FOC 08/03/06) will retail for $19.99, not $15.99; will have 184 pages, not 144 pages; and will include Ultimate Spider-Man Annual #2, in addition to the previously announced Ultimate Spider-Man #91-#97.

Now, I wonder why they would trade #97...

Screw up! :lol: