Ultimate X-Men 68 (Discussion/Spoilers)

I just realised what's been bugging me about Colossus' gay pride nonsense.

I like the idea that since he's a mutant - what's the big deal about him being gay? This makes sense as to why he'd be so open about it, however...

Being a man who is sexually attracted to other men is not the same as being able to turn into a 7-foot tall, indestructible armour-plated superman.

Now, of course, mutant powers are a metaphor for different creeds of man (skin colour, cultural backgrounds, sexual preferences) but some 'minorities' are perceived in a good light in certain areas. For example, the hardcore black kid that influences all the white kids to ape him. The lone girl in the room full of gamers. My point is - some minorities are considered beneficial to the group - just as Colossus was to the Russian mafia.

So here's my problem - the Russian mafia doesn't tolerate gay people. These groups of people, they beat the **** out of gays. Just watch the Sopranos to see how they can take it. I don't believe that Colossus, growing up in that culture would be so open about being gay - in fact, it would make more sense that he would channel the negative feedbacks he'd anticipate getting into spending more time as a big, hulking metal ubermensch. It's more likely he'd continue to deny it unless he thought he could get away with it...

So before I get out of control with the rambling - What annoys me about Colossus' gay pride is that it doesn't mesh well with him being a former Russian mafia gun. In fact, him being 'in the closet' while being a mutant/former criminal was a lot more interesting and the former criminal aspect has kinda disappeared. So what bugs me is that Colossus being open about his sexuality, in my opinion, has made the character lose something, while when he was 'in the closet', he had an interesting dimension.

That's what I think anyhow.

At least we wouldn't have to sit through scenes where Colossus pouts like a teenage girl who's been told she's 'flat'. :roll:
 
Goodwill said:
If I'm supposed to give Millar's three issue arcs for UFF, you'll give Kirkman a shot... I'll go to my grave saying Date Night was better than any of what Millar has written for that title. There.

You're obviously wrong.
 
You're opinion.

Yeah, so Bass... For some reason we're going toe to toe here, but it's all in good fun, right buddy?

The only reason why your argument is poop is because of Nightcrawler. He's judging Colossus based on his sexuality, not his mutantcy...
 
Goodwill said:
You're opinion.

Yeah, so Bass... For some reason we're going toe to toe here, but it's all in good fun, right buddy?

The only reason why your argument is poop is because of Nightcrawler. He's judging Colossus based on his sexuality, not his mutantcy...

yeah mutant-ness can be tracedto genetics, whereas people could argue allday as to weather or not being gay is a choise or part of physiology.
 
Goodwill said:
You're opinion.

Yeah, so Bass... For some reason we're going toe to toe here, but it's all in good fun, right buddy?

The only reason why your argument is poop is because of Nightcrawler. He's judging Colossus based on his sexuality, not his mutantcy...

I am opinion?
 
Bass, I agree with everything you said...

But if this guy actually proves that he can write, we might end up with the inner conflict going on...

I mean... Colossus has killed people, and has helped people with guns kill people.

He is now dating a guy who had a traumatic experience with a gun, who doesn't know about his BF's shady past...

if Kirkman uses this to his advantage, and shows that Colossus is putting up a "yay, i'm gay!" facade to try to redefine himself so that he no longer has to deal with the bad stuff, in an attempt to make himself more appealing, and more relatable to other teenagers...

because we have to remember, he used to be attracted to the type of person he was forced into pretending to be: Wolverine. And now that attraction has gone to something new, and maybe that reflects an inner desire to change.
 
Goodwill said:
The only reason why your argument is poop is because of Nightcrawler. He's judging Colossus based on his sexuality, not his mutantcy...

:? How does this link to what I was saying? I'm not talking about how any judges Colossus. I was talking about how Colossus just being open about his sexuality is not only making the character less interesting, but it's also, I don't think, completely within character. If I had said, "The Simpsons has been crap for the last seven years" you'd have said "Your argument is poop because the Simpsons is on at 7pm". While what you say is true... it's got nothing to do with the point I was making. :?

Dr. Strangefate said:
Bass, I agree with everything you said...

But if this guy actually proves that he can write, we might end up with the inner conflict going on...

I mean... Colossus has killed people, and has helped people with guns kill people.

He is now dating a guy who had a traumatic experience with a gun, who doesn't know about his BF's shady past...

if Kirkman uses this to his advantage, and shows that Colossus is putting up a "yay, i'm gay!" facade to try to redefine himself so that he no longer has to deal with the bad stuff, in an attempt to make himself more appealing, and more relatable to other teenagers...

because we have to remember, he used to be attracted to the type of person he was forced into pretending to be: Wolverine. And now that attraction has gone to something new, and maybe that reflects an inner desire to change.

This would be good, but it won't go beyond the shallow "I'm gay, but my best friend doesn't think so" in a vain attempt to eliminate homophobia from the planet... because that'll happen. :roll:

But I think your idea has real merit AND it's made me realise that this inner conflict? We should be having that NOW as Colossus comes to grips not just with his sexuality, but his past crimes since if he can accept his past crimes, then he can accept his sexuality. (Again, in the Russian mafia, Colossus would've been raised in a very anti-homosexual atmosphere - the two are linked in an interesting way.)

That said... I think it would've been great if Colossus' past crimes had actually been a metaphor for homosexuality. Think about it - homosexuality is generally frowned upon, thought of as 'wrong' either morally or just simply unnatural - but it can be accepted as something someone does/did. Colossus' past crimes, being 'outed' as a criminal, would carry much of the stigma, even if he had reformed. Perhaps this could've been an interesting metaphor - Colossus claiming he no longer has criminal urges... when in fact he does. The only problem is that criminal activity (especially that of the Russian mafia) is so negative, it would imply that homosexuality is overwhelmingly negative - which would mean the writer would have to work his balls off to make organised crime seem negative (in the eyes of society) but positive (to the individual). A trying feat, but I think it could be far more interesting that what we have here.
 
Hmm...it seems to me, that "more realistic approach" in ultimate universe just means "make all women into whores".
I mean, Jean is a whore, who totally gets off from ****ing total strangers and known killers. Dazzler is a whore by definition. Rogue is a whore now too just ****ing whoever she can reach. Spiral - two-timing slut. Where does it end ? I swear, by issue 100 - all X-females will get through Wolverine's bed.
 
kerokero said:
Hmm...it seems to me, that "more realistic approach" in ultimate universe just means "make all women into whores".
I mean, Jean is a whore, who totally gets off from ****ing total strangers and known killers. Dazzler is a whore by definition. Rogue is a whore now too just ****ing whoever she can reach. Spiral - two-timing slut. Where does it end ? I swear, by issue 100 - all X-females will get through Wolverine's bed.

kitty isn't a whore..... al bit of a slut perhaps, but not a whore.
lets see who else do we have in the ultimate universe... euh:
Mary Jane... euhm she did both Harry and Peter, and she dressed up pretty slutty for a party once... but she said no to Molten Man!
Then, there's Sue Storm.... she's sticking with Reed sofar... Exept for the whole Namor thing... (cant realy blame her, Reed is a dweeb)

but this is getting a bit off topic :D
 

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