Ultimates 2 #8 Discussion (SPOILERS)

Hawkeye101

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Ultimates 2 #8 "Born on the Fourth of July" discussion (spoilers)

Well, what do you all Think. I'm not going to spoil anything, but I will ask? Who believes Cap is the actual traitor? Is Hawkeye really dead? Does this issue more strongly point to Tony as the traitor? And for those of you who said it has to do with Tony's master plan.... hats off to you.

However, I am proud to say that I was correct to guess it was cap in the cuffs on the cover.
 

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Without reading that first post, I'm assuming it contains spoilers...title adjusted accordingly.
 

Lynx

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Well, the big reveal issue is finally here. A very well crafted issue, I was very pleased until I got to the end. I became horribly dissapointed after finishing the issue. How could that be! Isn't this the issue with the BIG REVEAL, right??

WRONG.

We STILL don't know who the Traitor is. We have who everyone in the Ultimate Universe THINKS the Traitor is, of course. Captain America. Apparently, there's video footage of Cap murdering Hawkeye's family. Fury is NOT happy, to say the very least. The biggest problem with this is Cap throught the entire issue is shown to be a VERY sympathetic indvidual (Specifically, his talk with Bucky and fight with the Reserves). There is also some wedding preperations, which is a set up for next issue. The ending is actually very well done, but I was expecting the real Traitor to show his face, so I was left with very mixed feelings. Also, Hawkeye is missing. Either the Traitor took his body (For whatever reason), or he's still alive and has been captured by the Traitor.

My new opinion? Red Skull is the "traitor", masquerading as Cap with Loki helping him do it.

3/5. Would have gotten full marks if Millar didn't blantently LIE about the Traitor being revealed this issue.
 
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Lynx

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Whoops, didn't see this thread. Thanks, Caduceus.

And I concur with Hawkeye101. Tony is the ONLY other possibility at this point. But, wouldn't him being the Traitor prevent him from being in the Ultimates III? Loeb said he has big plans for Tony's brain tumor storyline. Who would trust a Traitor?
 

Spade

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Dont forget this is like how wanda could change reality in avengers disassembled so can loki for all we know the tapes are alktered to make everyone think it was cap when relly it was skull or ultron or someone and hawkeye is just being held captive
 

train

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i think that both spade and lynx are right. loki has altered perception in a way that makes cap appear on the tape. man, oh man, do i just LOVE the way the cap is written in this book. just great stuff...first and foremost, cap is a soldier and millar just get it.
 

Lynx

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DIrishB said:
Phooey...I knew we were getting jerked around with the traitor reveal in this issue. I still haven't picked it up, but now I'm not as excited.

Now you know how I feel. Millar is getting into this a wee bit too much. He's reveling in his knowledge. It wouldn't be as a big deal if Ultimates was a monthly book. He doesn't realize that the BIG HYPE turns into general annoyance when he does this. I like Millar and Hitch, I really do. But, I think it'll be a nice switch to Loeb/Mad after them. I need big superhero action after all the politics and fake-outs of Millar.
 

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Lynx said:
Now you know how I feel. Millar is getting into this a wee bit too much. He's reveling in his knowledge. It wouldn't be as a big deal if Ultimates was a monthly book. He doesn't realize that the BIG HYPE turns into general annoyance when he does this. I like Millar and Hitch, I really do. But, I think it'll be a nice switch to Loeb/Mad after them. I need big superhero action after all the politics and fake-outs of Millar.

Does he not know or just not care? If anything I'm just hoping Loeb and Mad can get the book out on a monthly basis like you said, instead of only getting 13 issues out in 2 years (first volume) and 12 out in a year and a half (this volume apparently).
 

Hawkeye101

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Here's what I think:
1) Hawkeye is alive, no question, its like the number one rule in comics, no body, they're alive.
2) The true Steve Rodgers is NOT the traitor, but a Captain America did help the trator/ is the traitor
3) Tony is the only other possible traitor, however, I still don't think Tony is in the driver seat as he does these things.
4) Ultimate Masters of Evil and Ultimate Hydra, there is no question about it. This is a true goodguy vs badguy story line, the kind where the bad guys make the good guys turn on each other. Loki is so ****ing with reality, and for some reason he has teamed up with Red Skull and they'll pull Ultron to their side.
5) By the end of this The Ultimates will have Captain America, Wasp, Thor, Iron Man Black Widow, Hawkeye, Quick Silver and Scarlet Witch (possibilities are Vision, Falcon, Warbird) on the roster. No question, all of the speculated traitors Loeb wants to use in Ultimates 3.
6) I know you don't have to read the Ultimates 2 Annual to keep up with the story, but I'm looking at hte part with the General, Vik. Fury knows there is something going down in Asia. I'm willing to bet that there is more than just Loki, Red Skull, and Ultron for this arc. Ultimate Crimson Dynamo, Yelena, Yellow Jacket (the bad one), Boomerang, Whizzer, and a magic based villain to counter Scarlet Witch, are the possibilities for the Asian super-force ('Masters' for a possible name?)
7) Maybe this is the Hawkeye fan in me, but the man is going to make the winning strike, after everyone assumes he's gone.
 

DIrishB

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Hawkeye101 said:
Here's what I think:
1) Hawkeye is alive, no question, its like the number one rule in comics, no body, they're alive.
2) The true Steve Rodgers is NOT the traitor, but a Captain America did help the trator/ is the traitor
3) Tony is the only other possible traitor, however, I still don't think Tony is in the driver seat as he does these things.
4) Ultimate Masters of Evil and Ultimate Hydra, there is no question about it. This is a true goodguy vs badguy story line, the kind where the bad guys make the good guys turn on each other. Loki is so ****ing with reality, and for some reason he has teamed up with Red Skull and they'll pull Ultron to their side.
5) By the end of this The Ultimates will have Captain America, Wasp, Thor, Iron Man Black Widow, Hawkeye, Quick Silver and Scarlet Witch (possibilities are Vision, Falcon, Warbird) on the roster. No question, all of the speculated traitors Loeb wants to use in Ultimates 3.
6) I know you don't have to read the Ultimates 2 Annual to keep up with the story, but I'm looking at hte part with the General, Vik. Fury knows there is something going down in Asia. I'm willing to bet that there is more than just Loki, Red Skull, and Ultron for this arc. Ultimate Crimson Dynamo, Yelena, Yellow Jacket (the bad one), Boomerang, Whizzer, and a magic based villain to counter Scarlet Witch, are the possibilities for the Asian super-force ('Masters' for a possible name?)
7) Maybe this is the Hawkeye fan in me, but the man is going to make the winning strike, after everyone assumes he's gone.

So since the traitor isn't revealed and their won't be any big surprises ruined for me, could someone give a summary of the issue, since I won't be out of work till 7:30pm and won't be able to pick it up today?
 

SeAcoW

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Lynx said:
Well, the big reveal issue is finally here. A very well crafted issue, I was very pleased until I got to the end. I became horribly dissapointed after finishing the issue. How could that be! Isn't this the issue with the BIG REVEAL, right??

WRONG.


AS I SAID. WHO IS YOUR DADDY?!
 

SeAcoW

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I don't think the traitor is gonna be shown anyway. But I hope so. Because if not then it's just an easy way for Mark to leave a big question mark for all of us.
 

Lynx

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I seriously wish I could go to Millar's New York signing just so I could walk up to him, slap him in the face and walk away.

And tell everyone that it was me. 8)
 

Hawkeye101

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DIrishB said:
So since the traitor isn't revealed and their won't be any big surprises ruined for me, could someone give a summary of the issue, since I won't be out of work till 7:30pm and won't be able to pick it up today?

Certainly, Jan wakes up in the morning to discover that Steve never went to bed that night. He reviels to her that he knows she's been seeing Hank since SHIELD sees him as a possible 'traitor'. She makes a remark about "I'm not sleeping with him, not yet anyway." And Cap takes off.

There is an Intense investigation at the Barton house, all bodies accounted for except Hawkeye's. They believe that Hawkeye's body was taken by the traitor. Fury is taking it very hard. He reviels that he had a whole slew of hidden cameras hidden in Clint's house, and the footage reviels the traitor to SHIELD.

Tony is in some kind of meeting where a US General is asking Tony why he's building a war plane years a head of what the US military is doing. Before Tony can respond, I believe Happy whispers something in Tony's ear.

Fury orders that the Reserves be the ones to take down the traitor, because there'd be too much emotion if the other Ultimates did it.

Steve talks to Bucky in an emotional talk about how he doesn't know anybody in the 21st Century and can't ahndle it. Buck takes Steve to the Captain America Memorial at the cemetary. It is here that the Reserves jump the captain, the Rocket Men, the seasons and few other Union copies. They trank the cap and Fury comes down VERY pissed. Fury says something like "You two were in this together? It's just so convieniant that Stark divers find Captain America when I'm building a Super-team." Fury socks Captain America.

Scarlet Witch & Quick Silver are looking at Wedding dresses for Black Widow when SW gets a text telliung them of Clint's families death and his aparent one.

Cap makes a comeback and knocks a few Reserves silly. Except Fury is FURYious and orders a Rocket Man to take Captain America down and the Rocket Man tosses a helicopter on Captain America and it ends with Captain America out-cold laying infron of his memorial that says "In Loving Memory of Steve Rodgers CAPTAIN AMERICA, who died saving the country he served.".
 

SeAcoW

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Thanks hawkeye really nice. So Hawkeye knows who the REAL traitor is. What if he is doing this one man Rambo thing against him?
 

TheManWithoutFear

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You guys are giving me the biggest headache with this crap you're producing. Half of you are saying "This is definitely and this is going to happen" You don't know **** so shut up already and take it to BSI.

This traitor thing is so overcooked. Millar really let us down with all the hype and the delivery and what's even worse is the biggest possibility of who the traitor at this point is.... NONE OF THE ULTIMATES. Where do you guys get off blameing Tony? Because he's building a jet? Idiots. That's a nod to the Ultimate Quinjet coming up probably for Vol. 3. It's not because Tony has this big scheme to take over the world. They're doing a MIni on him why would they turn him into a bad guy? He's a rich guy who wants to set himself apart by helping the world.

Hawkeye being alive is fine with me. But there better be a good reason he's being kept alive.

Loki altered the tapes? Cop-Out.

Someone obviously set up Captain America and that's pretty much something we all figured since we saw this cover leaked. Although I really liked the characterization of Steve Rogers in this issue we still get NOTHING!

The issue was good but I'm not giving it any credit we should be further along in the story.
Where's Bass to yell at me for this?

2/5
 

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