Ultimates 3: YOUR WAY

moonmaster

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The other night I was wondering what Loeb might do with the Ultimates and the familiar feeling I had when he was first announced on the book crept back in. I started imagining what he was probably going to do, and thinking about how I would do it. And how is that?

I may just be nuts for the Authority right now, but I think that would be the best direction to take the book. The Ultimates break away from government control and resolve to become a superhuman force above any kind of government control. Fury comes with and leaves SHIELD behind.

Much like the Authority, the Ultimates start taking on real problems. Dictators, human rights violations, corrupt governments. They make a massive announcement to the world: If you have anykind of superpowers or are incredibally skilled in some useful field, and you believe you can help the world, you can be a part of the Ultimates. The Ultimates become a worldwide network of super-people, brought forth from every nation and ready to help when called upon. People like the X-Men and Spider-Man become members, willing to lend their services when needed.

But the government is concerned by what's going on. SHIELD has a new leader who's not a very nice guy and thinks that all superhumans need to be strictly controlled and forced into military service, no matter what objections they may have. He forms a new version of the Ultimates. This new team is not really evil, but they're much more docile and they're willing to carry out any order, no matter what it is. Ultimates 3 culminates in the old Ultimates and the new Ultimates clashing, with huge ramifications.

Personally, I think that's the most valuable direction the book could be taken in, but it's probably the exact opposite of what Loeb has planned.

So now I ask you: If you were given the chance, how would you continue the Ultimates?
 

ProjectX2

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Sounds like Ultimate Civil War.

I don't know what I'd do - I'll have to see what happens at the end of The Ultimates 2, first.
 

E

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moonmaster said:
The other night I was wondering what Loeb might do with the Ultimates and the familiar feeling I had when he was first announced on the book crept back in. I started imagining what he was probably going to do, and thinking about how I would do it. And how is that?

I may just be nuts for the Authority right now, but I think that would be the best direction to take the book. The Ultimates break away from government control and resolve to become a superhuman force above any kind of government control. Fury comes with and leaves SHIELD behind.

Much like the Authority, the Ultimates start taking on real problems. Dictators, human rights violations, corrupt governments. They make a massive announcement to the world: If you have anykind of superpowers or are incredibally skilled in some useful field, and you believe you can help the world, you can be a part of the Ultimates. The Ultimates become a worldwide network of super-people, brought forth from every nation and ready to help when called upon. People like the X-Men and Spider-Man become members, willing to lend their services when needed.

But the government is concerned by what's going on. SHIELD has a new leader who's not a very nice guy and thinks that all superhumans need to be strictly controlled and forced into military service, no matter what objections they may have. He forms a new version of the Ultimates. This new team is not really evil, but they're much more docile and they're willing to carry out any order, no matter what it is. Ultimates 3 culminates in the old Ultimates and the new Ultimates clashing, with huge ramifications.

Personally, I think that's the most valuable direction the book could be taken in, but it's probably the exact opposite of what Loeb has planned.

So now I ask you: If you were given the chance, how would you continue the Ultimates?

I completely agree. Although that's what the original Squadron Supreme did and I think that's what JMS is moving toward in the new Squadron Supreme, so it might be redundant.
 

spectre

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Rather than move the Ultimates away from Shield (just yet anway) - I'd like to see them take on something completely different - something/body that hasn't been "ultimized" from the 616 universe. I can imagine that in the aftermath of Ultimates V2 any number of subversive organisations would love to cause a wee bit of mayhem for the world. I know that this might be toched on in the upcoming annual but it's something that I think could be expanded upon.
 

Friday

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Well, taking Loeb's "popcorn flick superheroics" to the .... ahem, Ultimate Level I think we'll get whatever version of the team against something huge. Remember, we're supposed to be less political, so I doubt we'd have The Ulitamtes as a freelance team, unless Millar is moving twords the formation of The Avengers in the Ultimate universe and Ultimates 3 and 4 are just placeholder titles till issue13 ships. If they go rogue (and yes, thats the term we'd use. Fully trained goverment operatives taking on whatever missions they chose? Rogue agents.) as The Avengers then I'd be fine with it. But give up a Mission Impossible style espionoge spy thriller with The Ultimate Avengers against Ultimate Shield and Nick Fury. Iron man, Thor, The Wasp, Banner once they find him, Hawkeye and maybe a few members of the guys that took everyone down in 2 against a new team of Ultimates ran by Captain America, with The Falcon as his number 2 man...

This freeform flow of thought brought to you by post-midnight shift posting.
 

Zombipanda

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I dig the ideas. Very cool. ;) The Ultimates 3 and 4 is just a place holder for Ultimate A-Team 3 and 4.

I'd go a similar route, but with some differences. After the attack by the Liberators, everyone in America pretty much unites behind the Ultimates. They're the heroes of the day, and the government can't really counter that, so SHIELD becomes the scape-goat for letting an attack on American soil happen. SHIELD is officially disbanded but still exists as a super-top secret organization deep within the United States government. The Ultimates become the Avengers now that they actually have something to avenge, and detach themselves from the US government. The government grudgingly accepts them as the first sanctioned independent super-team, knowing that they're too popular to challenge. In the wake of the attack, America is forced to shut down its super-soldier program along with every other country. The International Captains are the only legally sanctioned government heroes. The mission statement of the Avengers becomes, domestically, to repair the damage of the attack and prevent other cells within the US from gaining power; and internationally, to work through the other captains to shut down any illegal super-weapons programs. A number of Liberators cells are still in existence following the attack, and additionally, a huge amount of the administration and resources of the Liberators is exploited to create the profiteering terrorist group HYDRA, giving the Avengers some boogeymen to chase after. Also, Hulk's on the Avengers, because he's way awesome. Meanwhile, Fury is continuing to operate SHIELD underground, protecting America without them even knowing. He's forced Black Widow into service, blackmailing her with control of her nanites, as well as using Hank Pym to conduct research. In the process of acquiring Pym, he got his hands on the blueprints to the Ultron robots.
 

Hellharlequin

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sry for the chaotic writing style :

I think more the end of ultimates 2 would be so after cap clearly wins the fight against the colonel and hulk destroyed half of the robots of the crymson dynamo
(where here in the first quater of the comic)
suddenly Tony and thor arrive and help the ultimates beat the crap out of the liberators und resue the rest of the heroes.
cut to eurpr the captian europe corpse siege the louvre as we see the room shown in Ultimates 2 #10 we see two persons one person with a face like Kroenen unmasked(NOT showing his uniform)
and a guy in plain black uniform(whose face is not shown). the scarred guy says:
"baron don't let the weapons get into enemy hands.
give code: mornig star to our wonders."
"general new orders :Mornig star. Commander Skull should we not leave now?"
"Of course.Computer :formate all harddrives exept drive A."
suddenly all monitors show a multiheaded serpent. the scared guy leaves showing his red uniform followed by the baron (again not showing his face).
back at washington: suddenly we see perun get attacked by some of the foot soldiers of the liberators.he survives barely.
then next pannel: pym asking loki what's going on. his answer grinning:"their
bosses bosses are disapointed. nothing more."
next panel a fist into lokis face. we see the ultimates and liberators fight desparately against the foot soldiers while suddenly ultrons fight against the foosoldiers and the handcuffs of the capured heroes fall of & pym appears
saying: "need help?" (now end of issue 12)
now we see them toghether fight the foot soldiers: big Fight x-men,FF,and spiderman rescue the crowed of the food soldiers next we see is swarm ripped apart .then hurricane but she is recued by nightcrawler. suddenly saying the abonimation:"for christsake, wanda you can alter probabilities in a couple of weeks the suits would have been eaten them up could use your powers fasten it up to NOW !" Answer of wanda: a big elektric chrage would do good
it much quicker to them the next to panels we see a big whip of blue and crimson energy lashing after the soldiers next we see is pietro saying he cant feel his legs. now followed up by pitucres of the UN-building inside with Thor Fury, Abonimation and lord braddock discussing the event in the louvre and the future of the ultimates and liberators. with the result
the liberatores, ultimates, SHIELD, and the EDI should be laid together and work for the UN dirctly. the only thing left on harddrive A was only an MP3 with the words:
"congradualtions you cutted of one head but as the story goes 2 grow from the wound."
 
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marvelman

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That's great- I would love to see that, especially the HYDRA ref.

I take it red skull and baron ZEMO?? or maybe von strucker... but i'd prefer zemo.

Great idea though.... if only it happened.
 

Willverine

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There are some pretty good ideas here already.

I'm going to throw my two cents in, but it's on the fly, so excuse me if I start to ramble.

I would have the Ultimates splitting from SHIELD, no doubt. I would prefer the split to be amicable, with the Ultimates becoming somewhat of a team of registered crimefighters, not a military/paramilitary group. That seems to be the root of their current problems with the Liberators, and I see them (all or in part) wanting to distance themselves from any further political entanglements. Even though it's more than certain they will be the victors over the Liberators, that victory has already come at quite a high price, and I think they'll have a sour taste in their mouths over everything that's happened because of their involvement with the government and the military. That would probably be my best bet, since from all reports, Ultimates v3 is supposed to be more big action and less politics.

That being said, and with sketches and talk of guys like Absorbing Man showing up in the series, I would like to see some kind of "Ultimate Masters of Evil" showing up (not neccessarily using the name Masters of Evil, but you get the picture)... at least the beginnings of that group in Ultimate Continuity. Have the new non-military Ultimates group fighting the big baddies like Absorbing Man, Ultron and HYDRA... I like the idea mentioned of HYDRA with an Ultimate Zemo or Red Skull at the helm. I don't think it would be too far fetched for this style of Ultimates group to be dealing with mostly domestic superhuman incidents and of course, with their resources from Stark and others, tackling the international "superhuman" terrorist organizations (such as Hydra).

Real world politics have been a great part of the first two Ultimates series, and have been handled well by Millar, but I think it's a good idea to step back from that, at least for a while, and get on with the business of high-incident, big action superheroics with more concrete enemies (like Hydra, et. al.).

I don't think the current team needs to be changed too much. Cap, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Thor, Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and possibly Falcon and/or Vision (the female version or Pym's "male" version) would be just fine with me. Let Fury stick with SHIELD, that's always been his M.O., and give them a hand with intelligence and logistics from time to time, without being "the boss". Perhaps the attack by the Liberators will teach him just a little bit of humility in that aspect. A reserve team, which was always a big part of 616 Avengers, wouldn't be a bad idea, either. The 616 Avengers were always pretty good at networking, which was a strong point.

I think they should have story arcs which are more easily digested, issue by issue, instead of spreading one storyline over six or more issues, until it's near time to wrap up the series' run, and end it with a big bang. A big battle with HYDRA, say, or perhaps the Ultimates taking on an ever-evolving, increasingly powerful Ultron, could be drawn out over 4 to 6 issues.
 

Hellharlequin

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marvelman said:
That's great- I would love to see that, especially the HYDRA ref.

I take it red skull and baron ZEMO?? or maybe von strucker... but i'd prefer zemo.

Great idea though.... if only it happened.

first one yes.
second full name:baron heinrich von strucker-zemo former dictator of latveria (revealed later)
EDIT :thanks for the compliment
 
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olavthehairy

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hmmm....

lots of good calls so far, here's my rambled spoutings of thought for 12 and 13:

Hank Pym, after a last minute change of heart, attacks the Liberators with the Ultrons, then changes to Giant Man but is cut to peices by the powersuits before declaring his everlasting love to Jan, then snuffs it.

Banner/Hulk, after practising origami on the Crimson Dynamo's super-sized robots, has a testing time with the Abomination, resulting in the pair of them buried in various buildings for the duration of the issue.

Cap vs. Wali will not be resolved through violent means. Previously mentioned rejection of super soldier serum causing Wali to be transformed into Red Skull curtails action.

Stark suffers an epiphany during battle with Crimson Dynamo, realising that it is his fault that the Liberators have the technology to cause such damage (shades of 616 armour wars) and remotely shuts down all stark designed products.

Hawkeye kills an AWFUL lot of people all the while frozen in a thousand yard stare.

Then Loki spins round to see his step-brother. Then looks up, and up, and sees his father's outline in the darkened clouds and is promptly swallowed up by a huge lightining bolt, teleporting him back to Asgard to be sent to bed with no tea.

Ultimates 3 - no more state super team - money to be spent on rebuilding USA. On his sons behest, Starks tumour is removed by Odin by way of thanks. Jan and Cap split up. Banner goes back into hiding just as the Absorbing Man (probably now a middle eastern/eastern european stereotypical villian) comes to town.

must go for a lie down as all this is getting an old man too excited :wink: :D
 

train

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i'd like to see the whole team disbanded...only after hawkeye is killed. then a bunch of criminals bust out of a maximum security prision. so cap enlists the help of spidey, luke cage, spiderwoman, wolverine and iron man. damn...i ought to write a proposal for marvel.
 

Ultimate Cap 4 President

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Taking the Ultimates away from SHIELD would be the stupidest thing to do for Ultimates 3. It would take The Ultimates away from everything that was good about the last two volumes. And anyway with cap being government dog he is in the UU he wont join them if they did split from SHIELD... besides we still gotta worry about who's gonna survive to see Ultimates 3 and how thats gonna effect the team. :noway:
 

Zombipanda

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Ultimate Cap 4 President said:
Taking the Ultimates away from SHIELD would be the stupidest thing to do for Ultimates 3. It would take The Ultimates away from everything that was good about the last two volumes. And anyway with cap being government dog he is in the UU he wont join them if they did split from SHIELD... besides we still gotta worry about who's gonna survive to see Ultimates 3 and how thats gonna effect the team. :noway:

I don't know about that, dude. I think each volume should be different, otherwise there's no point in breaking them up. Reaelly, the Ultimates-as-government-heroes thing has really played out. They've spent the greater part of Ultimates 2 doing controversial things for the US Government, and they've been torn apart fromthe inside and locked up for it. If Millar were still writing the book, the most natural thing to do would have the team break from the government and try to establish themselves as an independent peace-keeping force. The book could still be about international issues, but it would be the natural progression, with how he's been buildling things.

It's a shame Millar's going, but I'd say breaking from the government is the natural direction for Loeb too. That way he can tell flat superhero stories without worrying about any complicated moral issues. *sigh* We can look forward to a lot more internal narration blocks in Ultimates 3.
 

Ultimate Cap 4 President

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Zombipanda said:
I don't know about that, dude. I think each volume should be different, otherwise there's no point in breaking them up. Reaelly, the Ultimates-as-government-heroes thing has really played out. They've spent the greater part of Ultimates 2 doing controversial things for the US Government, and they've been torn apart fromthe inside and locked up for it. If Millar were still writing the book, the most natural thing to do would have the team break from the government and try to establish themselves as an independent peace-keeping force. The book could still be about international issues, but it would be the natural progression, with how he's been buildling things.

It's a shame Millar's going, but I'd say breaking from the government is the natural direction for Loeb too. That way he can tell flat superhero stories without worrying about any complicated moral issues. *sigh* We can look forward to a lot more internal narration blocks in Ultimates 3.

Tuche... But I'm just saying... why change something that isnt broken... After Ultimates 2, America's gonna need the Ultimates more than ever. i wouldnt be mad if they did leave the governmet and SHIELD behind but its gonna kill me not seeing George W's face in every other book... :(
 

Gemini

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if i were in charge of whats going on for ultimates 3 i'd fire loeb and maduera and hire brubaker and finch and let them do whatever the hell they want because there like midas whatever they touch turns to gold


"i like gooooollllddd!!"
 

Zombipanda

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Ultimate Cap 4 President said:
Tuche... But I'm just saying... why change something that isnt broken... After Ultimates 2, America's gonna need the Ultimates more than ever. i wouldnt be mad if they did leave the governmet and SHIELD behind but its gonna kill me not seeing George W's face in every other book... :(

That's the problem. I feel it IS broken.

I don't mean that Millar ****ed things up on the Ultimates. I think that he's intentionally been building up to a split between the Ultimates and SHIELD. If they stayed with SHIELD now, it would feel like all that tension throughout Ultimates 2 just hadn't paid off. Just because they're an independent team doesn't mean we wouldn't see plenty of Dubbya and SHIELD throughout.

I mean, if these guys go off to form their own superhero team, they'll be making SHIELD their enemy.
 

Thor

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I am with UC4P because I think it would be far too soon to split them apart. I think they should stay togeth for atleast another volume or 2 because it could introduce main characters, build up on the current team emotions, and when some of the Ultimates decided to leave it would be harder to fight their old friends. And I am pretty sure that The Colonel (who I hope is the Red Skull) will return later in the story when Cap leaves or is on break or something.

Still looking forward to the next ongoing series.......hurry up Marvel. I need another one *cough* Daredevil *cough*.
 

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