Why Batman Should Be Killed/Retired in Batman R.I.P.

What do you think about replacing Batman?

  • I have no opinion one way or the other

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Dr.Strangefate

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I've been thinking about this a lot in the last couple of months, because of Grant Morrison's current run on Batman, which does in fact seem to be leading to a new Batman in the central D.C. Universe... And after a while I think it hit me that these stories are stagnating in the current universe because there can be no more progression.

More than any corner of the DCU, Batman's story since Crisis on Infinite Earths has been fairly linear, with a strong focus on who might be eligible to fill the Cape and Cowl should Batman ever step down. This has been the focus of Knightfall, No Man's Land (when Batman disapears for several months), Under the Hood, and virtually any story that covers the dynamic between Robin, Nightwing and Batman. Grant Morrison has taken that and made it the focus of his entire current run, and I absolutely think that at the end of this year, Bruce Wayne will no longer be Batman. But I think we all agree that DC Comics will more than likely drag him back to the cowl within a year, because they are afraid of shaking things up. But I don't want Bruce back. Not for a while anyways, if ever, in the major DCU.

Here's the thing: Dick Grayson has been trained for his entire life to replace Batman. It made sense for his character to go his own way for a while, to prove that he had the abilities to succeed as an individual, that he could make it to the A-League of the DCU without riding on Batman's influence. And he's done that... But the only logical progression from there with his character is to, in a moment of great need, fill the shoes of his mentor and become the protector of Gotham City.

And with the progression of Dick Grayson, and the many, many things that have plagued Batman over the years, Bruce Wayne is getting too old to do this anymore. The only way to make him being Batman make any physiological sense would be to magically de-age him, or to give him some kind of endurance powers. Bruce Wayne is currently handled as being in his mid to late thirties. But with the progression of the Robins, and now Damian, the sliding timeline is about to break. Dan Didio even joked that the way things were going, in another five years, Nightwing would be older than Batman.

They also have a perfect solution currently built in to solve both the fact that fans don't want to deal with no more Bruce Wayne Batman, and to solve the fact that to really bring the entire Batman franchise to the next level, Bruce Wayne needs to step down or die. The Multiverse.

Now I think fans might jump at this, but the current Batman film franchise is the perfect jumping off point for a line of comics taking place in a new version of Earth One. Right now in this universe, Batman has just hit the streets of Gotham (while they could eventually cover those early days, we could just assume that the Nolanverse origin matches that of these comics). Perhaps Superman is a bit of an urban legend, but nothing quite proven yet. He might be in Metropolis doing some good, but he has yet to don the S-Shield. Barry Allen is a scientist in Central City, Hal Jordan is a fighter pilot, etc. There would be no JSA in this world. No Superheroes until the dawn of the Twenty-First Century.

While the main DCU, or "New Earth", or Earth 0, could be aware of this world, they could make an agreement not to meddle with it, while it is so early in it's development. This could be, essentially, the Ultimate DCU. But in the right hands, it could essentially modernize many heroes, and allow creators to get back to the core values of the central players in the universe.

I also like the idea that these three universes could co-exist, with the potential for crossovers in the far future. Earth 2 is the Pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths DCU, New Earth is the Post-CoIE DCU, and Earth 1 would be the 21st Century revision of these characters.

This would allow new stories to be told back in the early days of the characters, without having to contradict later continuity, and it would ALSO allow the New Earth to move forward in logical continuity so they can throw out the idiotic sliding timeline once and for all. Superman and Wonder Woman make sense fighting crime into their forties and fifties, and beyond that. Green Lantern and the Flash have managed to build up a legacy team so that nobody has a problem when the suit gets handed to the next generation.... But Batman doesn't work the same way. Batman is human, and at a point in time, Batman simply doesn't work as a human if he's been fighting crime without a real break for twenty years in continuity.

In a way, I do think DC is moving towards this. I think that while they want a Batman for the movie fans to relate to, DC realizes that the core Batman titles aren't good for that. All Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder was an attempt to deal with this, but all they ended up with was a bizarre elseworlds handling of Robin's first days with Batman.

Give a book to a Batman who's just starting out, the Earth One Bruce Wayne... Then give give the core DCU Bat Books to Dick Grayson and his younger brother/partner, Tim Drake (who would actually make sense as Dick's Partner. I think that Robin's served his purpose as a sidekick, and it would make more sense if he worked with Dick as more of an equal.

Then of course there's Jason Todd (who isn't a bad character, he just hasn't been used properly since he was reintroduced), who is apparently getting his own title... He'll probably face some kind of redemption. And Damian, who I hope continues to be a sometimes friend/sometimes rival to the new Batman.

This is just my opinion, but DC Comics has always been more willing to allow its characters personal stories progress with disregard to keeping the same person in the costumes. The one place they've always fail to do this is Batman. I just think it's about time to rectify that, and they have the perfect opportunity with Batman RIP, and the Battle of the Cowl miniseries coming after that to really take these series to the next level.

I think it's necessary to keep Batman a relevant force in the major DCU.

What do you think?
 
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I agree with everything you said. DC has the ability to do this better than Marvel could thanks to the Metaverse. It's a wonderful idea. And I think it would really improve sales on the Bat-titles. Bold new era and all.
 
Couldn't have said it any better.
 
Honestly, I think it would be brilliant if they utilized the multiverse like this. Each universe has a different history. And one would definitely need to be Ultimate DC. If they're willing to do that and have a version of Batman on each one so everyone can enjoy Batman in general, then I don't mind them doing whatever they want to do with Wayne. And because Morrison and the rest are involved, I'm hoping something like this will happen.

At the end of the day, all I want is a good story. If doing this stuff to Batman results in a good story, then congratulations. If it's terrible... then they have failed.
 
You know. Now anything else would be a waste of such a great chance.
 
Honestly, I think it would be brilliant if they utilized the multiverse like this. Each universe has a different history. And one would definitely need to be Ultimate DC. If they're willing to do that and have a version of Batman on each one so everyone can enjoy Batman in general, then I don't mind them doing whatever they want to do with Wayne. And because Morrison and the rest are involved, I'm hoping something like this will happen.

At the end of the day, all I want is a good story. If doing this stuff to Batman results in a good story, then congratulations. If it's terrible... then they have failed.

And they should hire me to write Ultimate Batman... or, Batman: Prime. along with Ultimate Superman.... or, Superman: Prime.

E said:
That's what she said.

:D

Change one letter on the last word and that would actually make sense.
 
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I think getting rid of Bruce Wayne as Batman and replacing him doesn't do anything.

The reason Batman comics are generally crap is not because of Bruce Wayne. Stick someone else in the mask and all the same problems will be there. Resetting continuity or changing superficial elements rarely solves the major problem of subpar writing.

As is evident every three or four years when someone shows up on a title that's existed for decades and knocks it out of the park using all the iconic elements every thought were old-fashioned.
 
But these aren't superficial changes. This is actually letting the character go further, allow the legacy to go further, the entire franchise has been stunted by the fact that we all KNOW that DC won't change anything. Too much has happened to Bruce Wayne, and it's getting hard to care because how can you top getting his back broken, his mind wiped, his mind broken, his city completely destroyed by plague and earthquakes, his foster children killed, his friends killed, his lovers killed. EVERYTHING has happened to him.

Either they need to move forward, or they need to hit a reset button. What I propose does both and allows for the characters to grow.
 
I dont really approve, I just hate when ever a character is kill who we all know will return. It makes the whole thing feel meaningless. It's just a general opinion I'll never shake
 
Yeah but it'd be nice for a change, death of superman and the whole azrael story were both quite innovative, and it gives a chance to see what fills the void. THough I hope that we don't just have 4 batmen appearing, like with reign of the supermen....as seems to be happening with the robins.

I hope he retires or something...it seems to be going that way. And yes DC will bring him back.

I don't want DC to do an ultimate universe. They've pretty much got your stand alone stories in the batman & superman confidential books. not to mention the all star ranges...and alex ross's stuff...I mean the way I figure it the DCU is already made up of lots of different universes that are pretty self contained anyway. You can take Mike Grell's Green Arrow run, or Frank Millers Dark knight verse, ...all the year one's and origin stories that have ever been. I tihnk the ultimate range is a good thing to get people into comics, it's what got me reading comics...but actually now i read DC mostly and the ultimate line sucks. I don't think DC needs to do an ultimate line, it's doing fine as long as it keeps all it's good writers happy (let morrison retcon continuity and don't retcon him), Let's see something new with batman!
 

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