I think we need to define the term "sympathetic villain"
do you mean more complex than Dr Doom who is simply a bad guy and wants to take over the world?
do you mean like Sandman from Spider-Man 3 who keeps saying, "I'm not a bad person! My daughter is sick!"
I don't think the villains in the UU are more black and white than 616 villains, if that's what you are asking
Ultimate Hobgoblin isn't just a bad guy, he was a confused and crazy teenager who mutated himself b/c the hypnotic pshycotherapy his dad made him take made him hear voices.
The Ultimate Enforcers felt terrible when they stood by and let Kingpin kill the Big Man
Ultimate Silver Sable is just a mercenary with daddy issues, she isn't evil
and several of the Ultimate brotherhood of Mutant members were simply following a charismatic leader and fighting for what they believed in (Toad, the guy that explodes that Charles and Erik saved from being shot, not to mention Wanda and Pietro)
A lot of Brotherhood members were simply mutants who followed and believed strongly in Magneto's ideologies and not just barbaric bastards. You should try taking a look at how Millar treated Mastermind, Madrox and Blob among others during the early days of UXM.
Question. What is the point of asking us about sympathetic villains only to then turn around and say "*insert villain* is not sympathetic*" Clearly they must be as sympathetic is a point of view. They feel they are sympathetic does not mean they are wrong as they must be if they felt sympathy towards them.
I think the problem isn't with villains not being sympathetic. It's about Overlord not being capable of sympathy.
And really they were never really sympathetic, Ultimate Magneto is like Hitler or bin Laden, they are helping to further the agenda of someone who is genocidal. How is that symapthetic? Did anyone of them ever say,"hey maybe genocide is wrong?" They are about as sympathetic as rank and file Nazis or Al Qaeda members. They believe in a racist, hate filled ideology, they not sympathetic.
Having not read this thread in its entirety, I have to say that I don't think sympathetic villains are unrealistic, but I don't think they should be the only measure of a villain's awesomeness.
There are villains that work because they are sympathetic... and there are villlains that work because they aren't.
Exactly.But variety is the spice of life, I would say the 616 universe is way better when it comes to variety of personality for villains the UU, where it seems like almost villain is evil for evil's sake and wants to eat puppies.
In the 616 universe Red Skull is unique because he is the most villain around, in the UU almost every villain is pure evil, so he wouldn't be unique in the UU.
I'd rather have a mix of unsympathetic AND sympathetic villains. I wasn't arguing otherwise.
I didn't even realize you were focusing on Ultimate comics until reading this reply and noticng that this thread is filed under Ultimate Comics.
With that in mind, I can't disagree with you on that. I'm fine with unsympathetic villains, but I do agree that there much too common in the UU.
Of course, I don't read Ultimate Comics anymore, and currently its problem is it needs better ****ing writers and editors.