Batman - The Dark Knight Universe (Earth-31, Frank Miller's TDK)

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
This thread is for a general discussion of all stories pertaining to DC's Earth-31, otherwise known as Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight" Universe. Stories which make up this universe include:

Batman - Year One
All-Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder, Volume 1
Batman - The Dark Knight Returns
Batman - The Dark Knight Strikes Again



There have been a few "spin-off" stories from this universe, in which the Batman or other characters from Earth-31 (Superman, namely in Countdown Arena) crosses over into other parallel universes (or in the case of Spawn / Batman, he just goes to New York, and in Planetary / Batman, Bats appears very briefly as the team jumps between dimensions).

Planetary / Batman - Night on Earth
Spawn / Batman
Countdown - Arena



I guess what I'm wondering is, does anyone know if any of the Earth-31 characters appeared in any of the other Crisis titles? Since Countdown Arena ended on a cliffhanger, did Superman from TDK Universe appear in any other Crisis or 52 related titles?
 
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Planet-man

Well-Known Member
I refuse to believe that the same man from Year One and DKR was always the pitiful, demented psychopath seen in ASBAR.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
I refuse to believe that the same man from Year One and DKR was always the pitiful, demented psychopath seen in ASBAR.

It was a phase...?


But seriously...I can. Its definitely approached with a very over-the-top manner in ASB&R, but compare his whacky behavior in that with some of his whacky behavior in TDKR. While his motivations might've been slightly clearer and probably more justified in TDKR, I don't think the characterization of Batman (we've hardly seen any Bruce Wayne in ASB&R, so...) in the two is drastically different or untrue to the morally ambiguous Batman that Miller created.

Besides the obvious explanation of an after-the-fact series meant to be an interquel.
 
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DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
*poisons Planet-Man's lemonade with Ice Tea...NOW meet the horror of an Arnold Palmer!*





Yeah, so anyone who actually reads DC and might know the answer, please let me know: did any Frank Miller TDK characters - Earth-31 - show up in any other 52 related titles like Countdown Arena?.
 

thee great one

Master of TOG-fu.
*poisons Planet-Man's lemonade with Ice Tea...NOW meet the horror of an Arnold Palmer!*





Yeah, so anyone who actually reads DC and might know the answer, please let me know: did any Frank Miller TDK characters - Earth-31 - show up in any other 52 related titles like Countdown Arena?.

No.

But there was a small scene in JLA 0, than may have related to Dark Knight Returns.
 

thee great one

Master of TOG-fu.
Mind elaborating?

The whole issue deals with the relationship of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. It has scenes in the past and some in futures that may happen.

One is Wonder Woman and Superman discussing Batman's death, which seems very much like it is DKR.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
The whole issue deals with the relationship of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. It has scenes in the past and some in futures that may happen.

One is Wonder Woman and Superman discussing Batman's death, which seems very much like it is DKR.

Oh ok. Well, I guess that about covers it. Thanks, Tog.
 

Ninja4peace

Well-Known Member
Yeah, so anyone who actually reads DC and might know the answer, please let me know: did any Frank Miller TDK characters - Earth-31 - show up in any other 52 related titles like Countdown Arena?.

I don't think frank miller had any input to those titles. He wrote an issue of spawn though, prior to writing the batman/spawn crossover. So i guess you could count that as canon. But I'd only count stuff written by Frank Miller - otherwise you'll end up with Loeb's batman/superman and everything else under the sun that has made sly nods to DKR.
 

Zombipanda

My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
I refuse to believe that the same man from Year One and DKR was always the pitiful, demented psychopath seen in ASBAR.

See, I don't. Think of it as just a phase in his career. I think of it like this. When he starts out in the game, he's still not the nicest of guys. He's willing to endanger lives. He's on a revenge bent. But it quickly becomes aware this is going to be a huge undertaking. Luckily he gets Gordon and Dent onboard, and it looks like they might be able to lock the situation down. There's still faith that he might be able to hang up the bat years after only doing it for a few years.

Then these lunatics start filling in the vacuum. Casual murderers and obsessive neurotics. Dent becomes Two-Face and suddenly that triumvirate that managed to really allow for progress is gone. So here Batman is, a few years into his career and Wayne's basically become consumed by him. All that's left is Batman, now set on this long march mentality. He's at least nominally responsible for this new breed of criminals, and to stop them, he's been forced to become a total prick. With no leisure time, he needs to find his pleasure in his job. So he works out and follows leads and beats the **** out of criminals and that's all he can afford to. Because he keeps telling himself that this job is the most important thing in the world. And with his mind wrapped only in this mission, all his brainpower is devoted to the mission. He's even mapping legacies. He's dangerously obsessed, but that's what he's been driven to.

Then he sees this kid. When he was just a face in a photograph, it was easy to look at the kid and plan out his future for him. But when he's in person, he's weak and scared and a child. Not only is it so contrary to the life that Batman's been exclusively living all these years, it reminds him of himself, the weak boy who couldn't prevent his parents' murder, his weak father.

Frankly, I think it makes a lot of sense. I think a lot of the time we glorify the character of Batman so much that we forget what he is He's a dangerous, privileged socialite who runs around and beats the living **** out of people. He's spending the defense budget of a smaller nation on his own personal armory, waging an urban war. It's easy for us to call him a hero looking from the outside of the comic book. But let's be honest, if that kind of guy showed up in your town, how ****ing terrified would you be? He's dangerous and obsessed and just filled with psychological uncertainties, and it makes perfect sense that a man like that would snap. Hell, anyone would snap when they're forced into a siege mentality 24/7. It honestly seems like a pretty natural place for this guy early in his career. And presumably this Robin story is going to soften, become a more balanced guy, until the events of TDK.
 

Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
See, I don't. Think of it as just a phase in his career. I think of it like this. When he starts out in the game, he's still not the nicest of guys. He's willing to endanger lives. He's on a revenge bent. But it quickly becomes aware this is going to be a huge undertaking. Luckily he gets Gordon and Dent onboard, and it looks like they might be able to lock the situation down. There's still faith that he might be able to hang up the bat years after only doing it for a few years.

Then these lunatics start filling in the vacuum. Casual murderers and obsessive neurotics. Dent becomes Two-Face and suddenly that triumvirate that managed to really allow for progress is gone. So here Batman is, a few years into his career and Wayne's basically become consumed by him. All that's left is Batman, now set on this long march mentality. He's at least nominally responsible for this new breed of criminals, and to stop them, he's been forced to become a total prick. With no leisure time, he needs to find his pleasure in his job. So he works out and follows leads and beats the **** out of criminals and that's all he can afford to. Because he keeps telling himself that this job is the most important thing in the world. And with his mind wrapped only in this mission, all his brainpower is devoted to the mission. He's even mapping legacies. He's dangerously obsessed, but that's what he's been driven to.

Then he sees this kid. When he was just a face in a photograph, it was easy to look at the kid and plan out his future for him. But when he's in person, he's weak and scared and a child. Not only is it so contrary to the life that Batman's been exclusively living all these years, it reminds him of himself, the weak boy who couldn't prevent his parents' murder, his weak father.

Frankly, I think it makes a lot of sense. I think a lot of the time we glorify the character of Batman so much that we forget what he is He's a dangerous, privileged socialite who runs around and beats the living **** out of people. He's spending the defense budget of a smaller nation on his own personal armory, waging an urban war. It's easy for us to call him a hero looking from the outside of the comic book. But let's be honest, if that kind of guy showed up in your town, how ****ing terrified would you be? He's dangerous and obsessed and just filled with psychological uncertainties, and it makes perfect sense that a man like that would snap. Hell, anyone would snap when they're forced into a siege mentality 24/7. It honestly seems like a pretty natural place for this guy early in his career. And presumably this Robin story is going to soften, become a more balanced guy, until the events of TDK.

I get what you are saying and it's an interesting take, but the thing that prevents this in my view was Wayne's travel across the world. Those events really rounded out his views and philosophies. He sees things from a clearer and an objective perspective than most people. At least that's just my opinion
 

Foolsfolly

Well-Known Member
Zombi = awesome.

However, I am uncertain that Miller's thinking like you and I doubt he has an over arching plan.
 

Gothamite

Well-Known Member
I get what you are saying and it's an interesting take, but the thing that prevents this in my view was Wayne's travel across the world. Those events really rounded out his views and philosophies. He sees things from a clearer and an objective perspective than most people. At least that's just my opinion

I agree, also and Batman Begins is a large part of that. Bruce's travels turned him from an angry, scared little boy out looking for revenge, into a mature, driven man with a clear objective in sight. I can't really agree with Zombi completely, because while his logic makes sense, I just don't know if Bruce/Batman would be as completely saturated in his work as he makes him out to be.
 

Ninja4peace

Well-Known Member
However, I am uncertain that Miller's thinking like you and I doubt he has an over arching plan.

I don't think Miller's got it all planned out. But he's got the beginning and the end and this is just spanning the difference.

I think it makes more sense when you read DKR, the other heroes all hated him and practically threw a party when he retired. Now this is just showing how batman pissed all the heroes off. It fits, it may not be the same mood and may not be of the same quality as the other stories but it's still Frank Miller's ******* batman.
 

SSJmole

Face-Punching As Foreign Policy
I refuse to believe that the same man from Year One and DKR was always the pitiful, demented psychopath seen in ASBAR.

Wasn't Allstar from Robin's Point of view? When I read a few issues I always thought the guy in Allstar = How Robin saw him which makes sense. Like when a teach or Parent tried to give you rules or what ever as young teen you saw them as some kind of monster. Batman would seem like a complete Psychopathic tool to Robin.


Or was that just how I read it?
 

Ninja4peace

Well-Known Member
Wasn't Allstar from Robin's Point of view? When I read a few issues I always thought the guy in Allstar = How Robin saw him which makes sense. Like when a teach or Parent tried to give you rules or what ever as young teen you saw them as some kind of monster. Batman would seem like a complete Psychopathic tool to Robin.


Or was that just how I read it?

Well maybe. Year One is definitely from Batman's pointof view, and I supppose DKR tries to get all the media points of view, as well as batman.

Also remember that Dick Grayson goes bad in this Universe (And the Green Lantern goes and lives in his fortress in space), so it's possible there will be more development from Dicks point of view...if he is seeing Batman as an insane hero and then attempts to be one. This story could end up like Long Halloween, but for Dick instead of Dent.

*** for tat
 

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