Do the super villains of mU need to take a step up?

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
The last few "events" have featured hero vs. hero action with very little input from the villains of MU. That doesn't make the villans very threatening. Do the super villains of MU need to take a step up?
 

Gemini

Well-Known Member
not really most of the marvel villains are doing very well right now, there just not in the prime focus.

Phalanx, Sinister, Mr. Fear, the Hood, Red Skull, the Wizard, Ultron

alot of marvel's villains are in action, there just not behind the main evens like HoM/CW/WWH so people don't notice them as much
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
The last few "events" have featured hero vs. hero action with very little input from the villains of MU. That doesn't make the villans very threatening. Do the super villains of MU need to take a step up?

Actually that goes with one of my complaints about superhero comics.

The villains are lame 99% of the time. And in the rare occasion where they aren't lame and they actually commit some villainous act with actual repercussions, the problem is miraculously fixed, retconned, etc.

That Evil Cyborg Superman actually destroyed an entire large city and replaced it with a machine city is pretty amazing. That should have lasting repercussions which should still be going on today. But no, they waved a magic wand and fixed it. Lame.

Ultimates (specifically Ultimates 2) was a lot better about this. Major stuff - I mean, they attacked Air Force One and had major government officials held hostage. And yeah, the good guys won in the end, but there was still a huge mess to clean up and there *were* major lasting repercussions.
 

Victor Von Doom

Fist of teh Internets.
Actually that goes with one of my complaints about superhero comics.

The villains are lame 99% of the time. And in the rare occasion where they aren't lame and they actually commit some villainous act with actual repercussions, the problem is miraculously fixed, retconned, etc.

That Evil Cyborg Superman actually destroyed an entire large city and replaced it with a machine city is pretty amazing. That should have lasting repercussions which should still be going on today. But no, they waved a magic wand and fixed it. Lame.

Ultimates (specifically Ultimates 2) was a lot better about this. Major stuff - I mean, they attacked Air Force One and had major government officials held hostage. And yeah, the good guys won in the end, but there was still a huge mess to clean up and there *were* major lasting repercussions.


And it's with this concept in mind that makes just a few writers excel at making their villains better than some crackpot mad scientist/world domination fiend.

Today's villains are much more menacing when they're focused on the destruction of a personal hero or when they have an more elaborate plan other than just some random rampage. Look at Captain America's Red Skull. This guy has been a major villain for almost a year now and look at how menacing and influential he's been. World domination is ok.....but this is a man who orchestrated the death of America's icon. And look at the ramifications it's had on the MU as a whole.

And all that from just one man. Brubaker.



So it's not that the villains need to step it up....there just needs to be bigger impacts other than "monster of the week" rampages. Plus....with the state of the world today....there's only so much that villains can do before the story hits too close to home in real life and alienates customers/readers. That in itself can hinder the comics.

DC can do the big sweeping Earth ruining events because they're destroying Metropolis and Gotham City. Not NY and Chicago. It doesn't hit as close to home as say an nuclear bomb going off in Stamford.
 

Bass

Nexus of the World
Ultimates (specifically Ultimates 2) was a lot better about this. Major stuff - I mean, they attacked Air Force One and had major government officials held hostage. And yeah, the good guys won in the end, but there was still a huge mess to clean up and there *were* major lasting repercussions.

Until someone else retcons it.

Sometimes it's not the villain, nor the writer's fault that a villain/story is lame with no repercussions. It's because the next writer comes along, retcons it to tell their story, gutting the previous one.

Look at Morrison's NEW X-MEN run to see what I mean.

That's the problem with franchises.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
Actually that goes with one of my complaints about superhero comics.

The villains are lame 99% of the time. And in the rare occasion where they aren't lame and they actually commit some villainous act with actual repercussions, the problem is miraculously fixed, retconned, etc.

That Evil Cyborg Superman actually destroyed an entire large city and replaced it with a machine city is pretty amazing. That should have lasting repercussions which should still be going on today. But no, they waved a magic wand and fixed it. Lame.

Ultimates (specifically Ultimates 2) was a lot better about this. Major stuff - I mean, they attacked Air Force One and had major government officials held hostage. And yeah, the good guys won in the end, but there was still a huge mess to clean up and there *were* major lasting repercussions.

Well there are have been villains that have scored victories over their foes, Gobby murdering Gwen has never been retconned. Bullseye murdering Karen Page hasn't been reversed. Ultron blowing up that African country hasn't been retconned. Theevents of Born again took years for DD to reverse. Heck Doom has taken over the world twice and only gave back the world because he realized actually ruling the world is quite boring.

The villains have to lose at the end, but if they can make the hero work for their victories, they have done their job.

I still think the fact that most villains don't do anything during these events as vexing. CW should have presented a million different chances for villains to cause trouble, but we have only seen a trickle of villainy in the wake of CW. Even a B-lister like the Mad Thinker should have been able to use the SHRA to his advantage.

...so enter the Skrulls.

But you would think the Earth bound villains could have done more after or during CW or WWH.
 
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Random

Didn't **** any of those *****es
Actually that goes with one of my complaints about superhero comics.

The villains are lame 99% of the time. And in the rare occasion where they aren't lame and they actually commit some villainous act with actual repercussions, the problem is miraculously fixed, retconned, etc.

That Evil Cyborg Superman actually destroyed an entire large city and replaced it with a machine city is pretty amazing. That should have lasting repercussions which should still be going on today. But no, they waved a magic wand and fixed it. Lame.

Ultimates (specifically Ultimates 2) was a lot better about this. Major stuff - I mean, they attacked Air Force One and had major government officials held hostage. And yeah, the good guys won in the end, but there was still a huge mess to clean up and there *were* major lasting repercussions.
I completely agree, it just seems all writers hat status quo changes but always boast they're doing major status quo changing events
DC can do the big sweeping Earth ruining events because they're destroying Metropolis and Gotham City. Not NY and Chicago. It doesn't hit as close to home as say an nuclear bomb going off in Stamford.

That's a good point, I remember Ourchair saying something about how the world should be radically different, but if you do this you may alienate your audience by making the world too different.
 

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Until someone else retcons it.

Sometimes it's not the villain, nor the writer's fault that a villain/story is lame with no repercussions. It's because the next writer comes along, retcons it to tell their story, gutting the previous one.

Look at Morrison's NEW X-MEN run to see what I mean.

That's the problem with franchises.
That case wasn't with the writer, but with the comic company itself. But I do see your point, which in other cases is very true.

I guess that's like with Bruce Jones run on Hulk. From what I was told, Peter David came on and made everything Jones did into nothing but a dream. That just makes everything like a waste.
 

thee great one

Master of TOG-fu.
Actually that goes with one of my complaints about superhero comics.

The villains are lame 99% of the time. And in the rare occasion where they aren't lame and they actually commit some villainous act with actual repercussions, the problem is miraculously fixed, retconned, etc.

That Evil Cyborg Superman actually destroyed an entire large city and replaced it with a machine city is pretty amazing. That should have lasting repercussions which should still be going on today. But no, they waved a magic wand and fixed it. Lame.


From what I understand now, Is that Coast City has been destroyed for years.

They are only now rebuilding it, but no one will move there, only a very small amount of people have.

And Marvel villains are going to have the best year ever...

Villains02.jpg
 
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Hibiki

Really is pretentious, no matter what she says. Do
Gambit looks like a lame hobo with a pcv pipe...that or a broke plumber ready for work.
 

The Overlord

Well-Known Member
From what I understand now, Is that Coast City has been destroyed for years.

They are only now rebuilding it, but no one will move there, only a very small amount of people have.

And Marvel villains are going to have the best year ever...

Villains02.jpg

Who is in the picture I see Sin, Clor, Mr. Fear, Gambit (did he switch sides:D), the Hood and some skrull. Who are the others?
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
Look at Morrison's NEW X-MEN run to see what I mean.

Very true. Good point.

From what I understand now, Is that Coast City has been destroyed for years.

They are only now rebuilding it, but no one will move there, only a very small amount of people have.


Maybe I misunderstood - I thought that after Cyborg Superman was defeated, Green Lantern came in and rebuilt it with his ring.
 

Gemini

Well-Known Member
Who is in the picture I see Sin, Clor, Mr. Fear, Gambit (did he switch sides:D), the Hood and some skrull. Who are the others?
Mandarin, Gamora(Phalanx-ified), and Mr. Fear

oh yeah then there is the Steel Serpent running amock of Iron Fist, Hate-Monger and Jigsaw just returned in Punisher War Journal, Midnight in Moon Knight, etc.
 
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Ultimate Houde

UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
The city fell apart when Cyborg was defeated, but I get what E was saying, because it should have stuck around
 

Gemini

Well-Known Member
Hammerhead tried to take advantage of the Civil War in the one-shot "Civil War: War Crimes" by Tieri it was pretty good. he pretty much tried to pull what the Hood is doing now.
 

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