Dollhouse - Whedon/Minear/Dushku Back To TV

I'm pretty sure I heard someone use that term elsewhere. It's not a term I came up with, I think. But thanks! It's apt for Gary Oldman. Another example is Charlize Theron. I actually don't think she's a particularly good actor BUT she's a chameleon. I've seen her in a few films and never realise it's her. IN THE VALLEY OF ELAH and HANCOCK are good examples. She's totally invisible and feels 'unknown' in both films. HANCOCK in particular, she has enough presence to seem 'off' but disappears quite well into the movie until she becomes a big part halfway through. She's a chameleon, but not that amazing. Gary Oldman is amazing. Chameleon isn't "range" nor "skill". It's just a trait like "funny". :)
 
...but not chameleon like Tom Cruise (whom I dislike) in Tropic Thunder (where he was awesome) :)
 
Interesting... I hadn't thought of Cruise as a chameleon in TROPIC THUNDER. You're right, he's awesome in it. Hurm... see, I don't think 'chameleon' is 'unrecognizable'. Chameleon is someone who is in the background yet, without doing anything, draws presence. Marlon Brando did this all the time. Tom Cruise isn't at all 'in the background', he's just unrecognizable due to the make-up and the zany characteristics he gave his character. In this case, I'd guess he just displayed some 'range' as opposed to being a chamelon.

I think. I hadn't considered it. Thanks for poking my brain into gear. :)
 
Bass said:
Just saw it.

Hurm.

It's okay. But... I think it's going to need time to get into a groove.

The problem is... Eliza Dushku. She's hot and talented, no question. But she's not particularly versatile.

DOLLHOUSE is many tv actor's dream: a regular, secure, prominent role on a tv show that allows them to play a different part each week to show off their acting chops. You need two strengths that are very rare together: invisibility and presence.

The actor needs to be a chameleon, able to completely disappear and yet, have enough presence to always be credible. A good example? Gary Oldman. That man is terrific.

Eliza Dushku is a good actor, but she's not got those qualities. There is one sequence; the phone negotiation; where Dushku goes from generic "tough" to the negotiator. That one sequence. Other than that, she's playing the part like she plays every part. The only other sequence where she was impressive was as the mindwiped Echo (I love how they're named after the phonetic alphabet - obviously "Alpha" is the one who got away or somethin'). She was genuinely creepy. Other than that... she was rather bland.

What didn't help, was that the script really kept going on about how she was a DOLL (I know that's the point). The continuous allusions to her as a prostitute and playing 'make-believe' really messed up the idea that she's supposed to be credible. When the father is demanding her to justify why she's there, I felt that it was a mistake to have him do that, because I kept remembering that she is playing make-believe, she's not really who she is, and that she's false and... rubbish. I didn't get the credibility that she's supposed to be GOOD at what she's doing. Even after the exchange, it never felt like she was credible. Partly because Dushku doesn't have that kind of range of presence, and partly because the script wouldn't shut up about it. See, after the phone exchange, I did find her credible. The writing and acting had SOLD her as the negotiator. Then the script undid that whole scene. She went from impressive to fake, which was silly.

Some alumni from Whedon's shows who might've been better? Alyson Hannigan, Gina Torres... and Amy Acker. It makes me cross my fingers that this show quickly becomes an ensemble cast, not just Echo and, maybe, Sierra or Tango or something. I hope the ensemble is dolls, not one doll and a bunch of administrators...

Anyhow, Helo (it was Helo wasn't it?) had that great scene in the toilet. And I love the ex-cop.

As the series continues, no doubt both the writers and the actors will work out what they can and can't do well, and it'll hit a particularly nice groove (as I say, Dushku is not bad by any means - the phone exchange was good, I'm sure she'll just get better and better as the show continues).

So... kinda optimistic. Whedon's at his best when playing with genre tropes. This show is about playing the typical spy/cop show and so, no doubt, it'll have some gold in it. If only because I'm sure we'll be seeing many actors from the Whedon shows cropping up.

That was lots of word to make a couple of points. After the Chameleon bit you started to ramble into meaningless. I didn't understand what you were talking about half the time.
 
Just saw it.

Hurm.

It's okay. But... I think it's going to need time to get into a groove.

The problem is... Eliza Dushku. She's hot and talented, no question. But she's not particularly versatile.

DOLLHOUSE is many tv actor's dream: a regular, secure, prominent role on a tv show that allows them to play a different part each week to show off their acting chops. You need two strengths that are very rare together: invisibility and presence.

The actor needs to be a chameleon, able to completely disappear and yet, have enough presence to always be credible. A good example? Gary Oldman. That man is terrific.

Eliza Dushku is a good actor, but she's not got those qualities. There is one sequence; the phone negotiation; where Dushku goes from generic "tough" to the negotiator. That one sequence. Other than that, she's playing the part like she plays every part. The only other sequence where she was impressive was as the mindwiped Echo (I love how they're named after the phonetic alphabet - obviously "Alpha" is the one who got away or somethin'). She was genuinely creepy. Other than that... she was rather bland.

What didn't help, was that the script really kept going on about how she was a DOLL (I know that's the point). The continuous allusions to her as a prostitute and playing 'make-believe' really messed up the idea that she's supposed to be credible. When the father is demanding her to justify why she's there, I felt that it was a mistake to have him do that, because I kept remembering that she is playing make-believe, she's not really who she is, and that she's false and... rubbish. I didn't get the credibility that she's supposed to be GOOD at what she's doing. Even after the exchange, it never felt like she was credible. Partly because Dushku doesn't have that kind of range of presence, and partly because the script wouldn't shut up about it. See, after the phone exchange, I did find her credible. The writing and acting had SOLD her as the negotiator. Then the script undid that whole scene. She went from impressive to fake, which was silly.

Some alumni from Whedon's shows who might've been better? Alyson Hannigan, Gina Torres... and Amy Acker. It makes me cross my fingers that this show quickly becomes an ensemble cast, not just Echo and, maybe, Sierra or Tango or something. I hope the ensemble is dolls, not one doll and a bunch of administrators...

Anyhow, Helo (it was Helo wasn't it?) had that great scene in the toilet. And I love the ex-cop.

As the series continues, no doubt both the writers and the actors will work out what they can and can't do well, and it'll hit a particularly nice groove (as I say, Dushku is not bad by any means - the phone exchange was good, I'm sure she'll just get better and better as the show continues).

So... kinda optimistic. Whedon's at his best when playing with genre tropes. This show is about playing the typical spy/cop show and so, no doubt, it'll have some gold in it. If only because I'm sure we'll be seeing many actors from the Whedon shows cropping up.
Bass summed things up perfectly. It's like he's reading my mind, it is!
 
Interesting... I hadn't thought of Cruise as a chameleon in TROPIC THUNDER. You're right, he's awesome in it. Hurm... see, I don't think 'chameleon' is 'unrecognizable'. Chameleon is someone who is in the background yet, without doing anything, draws presence. Marlon Brando did this all the time. Tom Cruise isn't at all 'in the background', he's just unrecognizable due to the make-up and the zany characteristics he gave his character. In this case, I'd guess he just displayed some 'range' as opposed to being a chamelon.

I think. I hadn't considered it. Thanks for poking my brain into gear. :)

I was just goofing around with the Tom Cruise suggestion - The only thing in the background there was his 'Tom Cruise-ness'. The rest of the character was so 'in your face'.

Early Kevin Spacey was like this (Usual Suspects and Shipping News)... since then, though, its almost like he's trying to address it by taking more roles where he can't be ignored when on-screen (Lex Luthor). Ed Norton too, I think.
 
That was lots of word to make a couple of points. After the Chameleon bit you started to ramble into meaningless. I didn't understand what you were talking about half the time.

We have met. You should be used to this by now.

Bass summed things up perfectly. It's like he's reading my mind, it is!

Thank ya.

I was just goofing around with the Tom Cruise suggestion - The only thing in the background there was his 'Tom Cruise-ness'. The rest of the character was so 'in your face'.

Early Kevin Spacey was like this (Usual Suspects and Shipping News)... since then, though, its almost like he's trying to address it by taking more roles where he can't be ignored when on-screen (Lex Luthor). Ed Norton too, I think.

Good points!
 
Every time I see this thread pop up I click on the link and expect to find out that the show has been canceled.


OperationDollhouse.jpg
 
This series is getting better.

I want to give Echo and the scarred scientist lady a hug.

And everyone besides Ballard and Echo's handler are pricks. Normally I'd forgive that if they were entertaining, but they aren't.
 
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Topher is growing on me. In the first episode he did just come off as a prick, but the second episode showed some kind of promise for him, he seems to have issues with blaming himself for Alpha and such.


Side note: I really wanna meet Alpha. From what we have seen of what he can do, he looks to be pretty damn badass.
 
Weird, I felt Topher is a little too "Evil Wash".

But I'm with Grocer Man, Amy Acker (scarred doctor lady) is superb, as is Helo (or Ballard or whatever his name is) and the black cop handler (I wish I could remember his name or where I've seen him before... to IMDB!)

The episode was pretty good with the twisting and the turning non-stop throughout. The first 15 minutes were boring, but it really picked up. They're definitely using the premise to tell genre shows; this week was the "horror" episode with Dushku doing her stint from WRONG TURN or some such.

Alpha is shaping up quite nicely as the villain, though I was... well, y'know when the policeman shoots the guy with the handler? (PS - I loved the whole "we're from the press" bit) Yeah, I thought he was Alpha. I thought that was really cool. Then it turned out he wasn't and I kinda got a bit let down. Especially as it's slowly moving towards the inevitable, "Echo becomes a composite" type dealy thing and rebels against Dollhouse, which is... terribly obvious.

Then I remember this is a Whedon show and no doubt, something out of left-field (like Echo being killed in episode 4) is going to happen. And then it's also a Minear show, who likes to invert the entire show's premise halfway through (Angel became evil without becoming Angelus; Mulder discovered the X-Files conspiracy was actually a lie and there were no aliens...).

So it started boring, got pretty good, I thought it got amazing, but turned out to just be pretty good. It's been consistent both episodes.

What I'm happy about is how much Alpha stuff we got in this episode. I'm really glad its not horribly drawn out. Looking forward to episode 3. So far, so good.
 
Just watched both episodes tonight, and I liked them, a lot.

I think the premise has a lot of potential, but I agree with everyone in wishing that, uh, E-Dush, was more up to the task.

Plus, we should consider formalizing a pool for how many episodes before it gets canceled. Cause that's totally gonna happen. It just has that vibe.

It occurred to me that since we're talking about a database of personalities that can be imprinted onto any of the dolls, and they mentioned it was an unidentified one of many personalities that committed those murders, there's nothing to say that "Alpha" is the only one that could have that murderous personality imprinted on them.
 
The second episode was much better than the first. Echo being hunted was actually scary and the characters are more fleshed out. I think I like them all.

Also, Alan Tudyk has been cast as Alpha. This is going to be awesome.

I hope Whedon gets enough time to tell this story. I think it could be really good.
 
The second episode was much better than the first. Echo being hunted was actually scary and the characters are more fleshed out. I think I like them all.

Also, Alan Tudyk has been cast as Alpha. This is going to be awesome.

I hope Whedon gets enough time to tell this story. I think it could be really good.

:shock:

Well **** a duck, I've got to see that.
 

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