Dollhouse - Whedon/Minear/Dushku Back To TV

On one hand, I'm annoyed I know Alpha's face.

On the other hand, I can't imagine Tudyk as a serial killer, yet I am convinced he'll be inherently terrifying.

I'm extremely excited to see this. When's he supposed to show up?
 
on one hand, i'm annoyed i know alpha's face.

On the other hand, i can't imagine tudyk as a serial killer, yet i am convinced he'll be inherently terrifying.

I'm extremely excited to see this. When's he supposed to show up?

Right Behind You By The Time You Finish Reading This.
 
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right behind you by the time you finish reading this.
Hello members of the website Ultimate Central. I am your friend moonmaster. Could someone please inform me of the location of The Dollhouse and active Echo?
 
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Hello members of the website Ultimate Central. I am your friend moonmaster. Could someone please inform me of the location of The Dollhouse and active Echo?

Nice try, liar! Mooney doesn't care about DOLLHOUSE because it's about a sexy woman who dresses up in revealing costumes each week pretending to be the ideal girlfriend.

Foolish, pretender. If only you had done the most preliminary of all research, you would've discovered the truth: Mooney is a homosexual. This show holds no appeal for him.

NARC!
 
Nice try, liar! Mooney doesn't care about DOLLHOUSE because it's about a sexy woman who dresses up in revealing costumes each week pretending to be the ideal girlfriend.

Foolish, pretender. If only you had done the most preliminary of all research, you would've discovered the truth: Mooney is a homosexual. This show holds no appeal for him.

NARC!

I bet he's got a crush on The Handler guy.

You know. The Handler. Have they said his name yet? Man, I knew the names in Firefly right off the bat....
 
Nice try, liar! Mooney doesn't care about DOLLHOUSE because it's about a sexy woman who dresses up in revealing costumes each week pretending to be the ideal girlfriend.

Foolish, pretender. If only you had done the most preliminary of all research, you would've discovered the truth: Mooney is a homosexual. This show holds no appeal for him.

NARC!
You are wrong, my friend Bass. I am looking for active Echo in order to design a dress for her because I am a homosexual. Could you please inform me of her current location?
 
You are wrong, my friend Bass. I am looking for active Echo in order to design a dress for her because I am a homosexual. Could you please inform me of her current location?

Hmm. You do talk the talk.

With the thread deleted and all evidence gone, I shall administer the ultimate test:

What was the first thread I created in regards to you?

Pass this test, and I will tell you that Echo resides in 221... :shock: Almost got me there...
 
Ok...I'm done with the show. I lost interest by the end of the 3rd episode.


Sorry Whedon. Maybe next time.












Also...I do realize that now that I've dropped the show, that now it'll run until Season 3 and be one of those great TV shows that I've missed out on and will be to behind to catch up.


Meh.
 
I've not seen episode 3 yet. I'm curious to hear why it was so bad.

I'm surprised at the backlash this show has been getting. It's not awful. It's not great, but it's just mediocre. I think everyone expected FIREFLY and all the best bits of BUFFY and ANGEL, and... well, think back. I'm pretty sure you didn't love any of those shows until you were a few episodes in. Lord knows, I didn't get FIREFLY until the end of "The Train Job".

Not a great show, but I've found these first two episodes better than the equal amount of time (usually the single pilot) of HEROES, THE X-FILES, BABYLON 5, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, and any of the damn Star Treks. Hell, except for HBO shows and shows like DEXTER, the more "episodic" genre shows out there, it's true to form. They're **** to start with.
 
I've not seen episode 3 yet. I'm curious to hear why it was so bad.

I'm surprised at the backlash this show has been getting. It's not awful. It's not great, but it's just mediocre. I think everyone expected FIREFLY and all the best bits of BUFFY and ANGEL, and... well, think back. I'm pretty sure you didn't love any of those shows until you were a few episodes in. Lord knows, I didn't get FIREFLY until the end of "The Train Job".

Not a great show, but I've found these first two episodes better than the equal amount of time (usually the single pilot) of HEROES, THE X-FILES, BABYLON 5, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, and any of the damn Star Treks. Hell, except for HBO shows and shows like DEXTER, the more "episodic" genre shows out there, it's true to form. They're **** to start with.

I agree. I'm absolutely giving it the benefit of the doubt.

That said, this episode was worse than the first two. Badly, awkwardly acted. The plot was lame. The writing completely failed to garner any sympathy for the main character Echo is protecting. But to be fair, this wasn't a JW episode.

So, let us know what you think.
 
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I agree. I'm absolutely giving it the benefit of the doubt.

That said, this episode was worse than the first two. Badly, awkwardly acted. The plot was lame. The writing completely failed to garner any sympathy for the main character Echo is protecting. But to be fair, this wasn't a JW episode.

So, let us know what you think.

I think you hit the nail on the head with "The writing completely failed to garner any sympathy".

As I was watching the episode, I realised what's so poopy about the show.

Echo is unlikeable. And she's surrounded by unlikeable characters.

The characters surrounding her, with the exception of the latino father in the first episode, are not very likable at all. They're vastly rich and selfish and manipulative. The first one, the father, was likable enough because he just wanted to protect his daughter. The second was a total jack-***. The third was saved because the actor was endearing, even though the character was so vapid you didn't really care.

And therein lies the problem - if the supporting ensemble that generates the story each week doesn't draw your empathy, you won't care if Echo succeeds or fails. Nothing matters. And this is what we've had so far.

What's more, is that if you're going to do that kind of show (and they work; this is the same formula as QUANTUM LEAP after all), then the major character has to be delightful. Sam Beckett is terrific, and Scott Bakula is terrific as him. But in DOLLHOUSE Echo, by her very nature, has no personality. Every episode she's an unconvincing facade, less interesting than a secret identity because she's not pretending. Imagine if each week, instead of Dushku playing Echo, we got a completely different actor/ress to play a different Doll. If every episode of LAW AND ORDER was replaced by different actors. It'd be hard enough to draw a consistent empathy. Then, imagine, if these shows were shot from behind the scenes, so you saw the rehearsing and outtakes by the actors. That is essentially, why DOLLHOUSE isn't drawing anyone's empathy or interest. There's no one to care about. Dushku is fine as an actress, but she's not magnificent. She's not so brilliant that she can effectively generate empathy for a brand new character each episode. The show would tax the best of actors to be entertaining. It's really damn hard.

While it does seem like Echo is actually turning into a full-fledged character, in the interim, she's vapid and boring - and that means the situations she's in seem needless, vapid, and boring.

So what happens? Well, we like Boyle. We like Helo. Because they're the only characters in the show. I recall that every good scene we've had so far is with one of those two characters. Echo is the dull bit of the show, which is kinda like saying "I only like the scenes in QUANTUM LEAP with Al and not Sam."

For example, in this episode there was a brilliant plot twist that has been set up since the pilot: Helo's Russian mobster is Victor and part of the Dollhouse. It's a terrific plot twist and it plays off well in the episode. But, then the show cut to and stayed with the bull**** diva storyline, a storyline with horrific cliches all over it. (Yes, her suicide fantasy was interesting, but all it did was make me like her less, and I already hated her and had no one else to like in that story.) Instead of following up the interesting plot line with Helo and Victor, we're treated to genre mush.

So, there's the problem with the show. The only likable characters are the tertiary cast. Everyone else is boring and no one cares about them.

I think, the show will work once one of two things happen: Alpha shows up (as at that point, Echo will composite into having a personality), or Helo becomes the major character and the show becomes about him tracking down this 'Dollhouse'. Boyle's doing just fine. They need to give Helo more screen time, and Echo a personality.

Not awful TV. Just boring. But there's something there, lurking in the background...

I'm just amazed that people fought so hard for FIREFLY and it got cancelled, and this one is being bashed to hell and back and it seems like it's going to get its full first season. Don't make no kind of gorram sense.
 
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While episode 3 was nowhere near as good as the previous episode, I still enjoyed it. The suicide diva thing was odd, but the show did bring up two points.

The first has already been mentioned by Bass. The reveal that Helo is actually Victor. Now we know that the Dollhouse is onto the FBI, and must be trying to distract him in some way.


The second, although it was a TINY reference, could be a major plot point that will be worked on. After the hostage situation, when DeWitt and Dominic were arguing about Echo and how she handled the situation, Dominic said "I recommend sending her to The Attic."
What is The Attic? A prison for dangerous Actives? Or something else?

If I remember rightly, there was another passing reference to the Attic in the previous episode as well.
 
The Attic seems to be a BAD place.

Also, Helo isn't Victor. His contact was. I assume you made a typo.

And there's that whole thing that Echo and Sierra remember the Diva thing. Echo tells Sierra not to hug/talk to her in front of the security guys. So... weird.
 
I'm surprised at the backlash this show has been getting. It's not awful. It's not great, but it's just mediocre. I think everyone expected FIREFLY and all the best bits of BUFFY and ANGEL, and... well, think back. I'm pretty sure you didn't love any of those shows until you were a few episodes in. Lord knows, I didn't get FIREFLY until the end of "The Train Job".

The way FOX ran Firefly, The Train Job was the first episode.
 
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