Ice

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Fantastic Four Relaunched By James Robinson And Leonard Kirk In February, Announced For Real This Time




The FF evicted from the Baxter Building and facing the Avengers. The Thing in prison for murder. Johnny Storm powerless. Dragon Man sentenced to death. The imagination of Sue and Reed Richards’ son Franklin becoming all too real while his younger sister is on her own.

Ultimately, Robinson reveals, his upcoming run is about “a family finding the strength to face adversity through the help and love of each other.”



[/IMG]
 
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E

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Re: Fantastic Four (James Robinson/Leonard Kirk)

That doesn't sound like the kind of FF story I want to read and I don't like that art.
 

Zombipanda

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Re: Fantastic Four (James Robinson/Leonard Kirk)

Hm. I'm not sure how to feel about this.

Is FF sticking around?
 

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Re: Fantastic Four (James Robinson/Leonard Kirk)

Fantastic four is rapidly becoming a series I don't care about due to the frequent relaunches it gets.

I don't care about relaunches, but I do care about taking it in a direction that seems opposite of what I want the Fantastic Four to be about. As much as I enjoy (most of) Fraction's work, his F4 was awful and just didn't mesh at all with the quality of stories the book has (mostly) had since Mark Waid's run.

I'm not saying every story has to be like Hickman's, but he nailed every aspect of the characters, relationships, and the core theme of the F4 perfectly.
 

Zombipanda

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Re: Fantastic Four (James Robinson/Leonard Kirk)

I'm not saying every story has to be like Hickman's, but he nailed every aspect of the characters, relationships, and the core theme of the F4 perfectly.

Agreed. But by the time Hickman's run was over, I was ready for something new.

Unfortunately, Fraction's run wasn't it. I'll give Robinson a chance though.
 

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Ice asked me yesterday if I was reading this and if I liked it. I said it was one of the worst things I've ever read. He asked why and what I didn't like about it. I couldn't give him an answer. I could not articulate what it was I hated and wondered if I was just throwing out hyperbole.

So I pulled the 2 existing issues out and re-read them. I wasn't throwing out a hyperbole. It really is terrible. I don't normally devote much time or brain power into analyzing something I don't like but since Ice asked...

My first and most obvious problem is with the art. Leonard Kirk is not good. Reed's face on the cover of #1 is terrible and it's all I can think about whenever this book is mentioned. I screen capped a shot of Franklin's face from issue 1 that I'll be putting in the bad art thread as well.

The writing: It feels like James Robinson had a neat idea for Franklin's Heroes Reborn world to come to life but had absolutely nothing to build around it. The solits tease Ben Grimm as being in prison for murder and Dragon Man sentenced to death...what?! Fantastic Four is not a dark book, and it's not a murder mystery. This book is at its best when it's about science, exploration, and family. After 2 issues this book has literally none of those things.

On top of that, Robinson does not get these characters at all. During Mark Waid's run on this book there was a story in which Johnny got put in charge of the FF's finances and grew up a lot in the process. Hickman took that even further and really made him mature when he became ruler of the Negative Zone...Johnny is not the himbo that he used to be. But somehow he has regressed back into that in just 2 issues of this book. His manager has him sign an agreement saying he won't travel through the multiverse or visit the Negative Zone and Johnny signs it without a second thought. Huh? The supporting cast of this book knows how important exploration is to what Reed does, and he just agrees not to do it any more because he has a contract put in his face?

He writes Sue - an amazingly strong character - like she's weak, moody, and mean. She's already snapped at Reed sarcastically a few times in two issues...she just doesn't do that. It's not in her character and it's not how she treats Reed, no matter how much is going on or how much stress she's under. She's being written like a cliche weak woman.

His Reed is probably the worst though. This book is already full of stupid, stupid comic book science like a gun that targets Fin Fang Foom's physiology (what?!) and a "cytotoxin" that "interacts with the (aliens') unique genetic composition" - he got an alien, took it back to his lab, did a complete examination on it, and invented this cytotoxin in a matter of minutes, literally. There's just no intelligence to this writing and it's a book that requires intelligence.

Gah. Everything about this book is stupid and this is the worst Fantastic Four book I've ever read. This is worse than the Dwayne McDuffie filler being pumped out around the time of Civil War.
 

Ice

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Ice asked me yesterday if I was reading this and if I liked it. I said it was one of the worst things I've ever read. He asked why and what I didn't like about it. I couldn't give him an answer. I could not articulate what it was I hated and wondered if I was just throwing out hyperbole.

So I pulled the 2 existing issues out and re-read them. I wasn't throwing out a hyperbole. It really is terrible. I don't normally devote much time or brain power into analyzing something I don't like but since Ice asked...

My first and most obvious problem is with the art. Leonard Kirk is not good. Reed's face on the cover of #1 is terrible and it's all I can think about whenever this book is mentioned. I screen capped a shot of Franklin's face from issue 1 that I'll be putting in the bad art thread as well.

The writing: It feels like James Robinson had a neat idea for Franklin's Heroes Reborn world to come to life but had absolutely nothing to build around it. The solits tease Ben Grimm as being in prison for murder and Dragon Man sentenced to death...what?! Fantastic Four is not a dark book, and it's not a murder mystery. This book is at its best when it's about science, exploration, and family. After 2 issues this book has literally none of those things.

On top of that, Robinson does not get these characters at all. During Mark Waid's run on this book there was a story in which Johnny got put in charge of the FF's finances and grew up a lot in the process. Hickman took that even further and really made him mature when he became ruler of the Negative Zone...Johnny is not the himbo that he used to be. But somehow he has regressed back into that in just 2 issues of this book. His manager has him sign an agreement saying he won't travel through the multiverse or visit the Negative Zone and Johnny signs it without a second thought. Huh? The supporting cast of this book knows how important exploration is to what Reed does, and he just agrees not to do it any more because he has a contract put in his face?

He writes Sue - an amazingly strong character - like she's weak, moody, and mean. She's already snapped at Reed sarcastically a few times in two issues...she just doesn't do that. It's not in her character and it's not how she treats Reed, no matter how much is going on or how much stress she's under. She's being written like a cliche weak woman.

His Reed is probably the worst though. This book is already full of stupid, stupid comic book science like a gun that targets Fin Fang Foom's physiology (what?!) and a "cytotoxin" that "interacts with the (aliens') unique genetic composition" - he got an alien, took it back to his lab, did a complete examination on it, and invented this cytotoxin in a matter of minutes, literally. There's just no intelligence to this writing and it's a book that requires intelligence.

Gah. Everything about this book is stupid and this is the worst Fantastic Four book I've ever read. This is worse than the Dwayne McDuffie filler being pumped out around the time of Civil War.
See! Reasons! Aren't they great? :)

Now I get why you don't like it. That's all I wanted. :lol:
 

wyokid

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I've always thought Hickman was a better artist than writer
 

wyokid

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George RR Martin used to write into FF a bit apparently


 

wyokid

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I really like Fraction's run (up until he stopped being the only writer and then only FF stayed good) but this book knocks it out of the park. This is classic Fantastic Four here and it really hasn't felt like this since Jeph Loeb/Mark Waid/JMS was on the book. I'm loving it so much. I really like how Robinson has taken apart the four but is still heavily focusing on the family part. The kids are even having their own adventures. I can't wait for them to all get back together though. I feel like that's when the book will really take off.
 

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I really like Fraction's run (up until he stopped being the only writer and then only FF stayed good) but this book knocks it out of the park. This is classic Fantastic Four here and it really hasn't felt like this since Jeph Loeb/Mark Waid/JMS was on the book. I'm loving it so much. I really like how Robinson has taken apart the four but is still heavily focusing on the family part. The kids are even having their own adventures. I can't wait for them to all get back together though. I feel like that's when the book will really take off.

Curious as to your thoughts on the Hickman run...
 

wyokid

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Curious as to your thoughts on the Hickman run...

Overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's good, but it's not THAT good. I was really bored a lot of the times and the big climax was a really big letdown for me. I'm not really a Hickman fan. I find his writing to be painfully drawn out and slow (even more so than Bendis). What really hurt it for me was how it didn't have the fun tone of Fantastic Four. Everything else was there (the exploration, the focus on family, etc), but that tone is a must. Everything felt so serious and dark.
 

E

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Overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's good, but it's not THAT good. I was really bored a lot of the times and the big climax was a really big letdown for me. I'm not really a Hickman fan. I find his writing to be painfully drawn out and slow (even more so than Bendis). What really hurt it for me was how it didn't have the fun tone of Fantastic Four. Everything else was there (the exploration, the focus on family, etc), but that tone is a must. Everything felt so serious and dark.

FF (particularly after #12) was the most fun the Fantastic Four had been since early in the Waid run.

EVERYTHING related to the FF class was fun, light, and charming.
 

wyokid

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FF (particularly after #12) was the most fun the Fantastic Four had been since early in the Waid run.

EVERYTHING related to the FF class was fun, light, and charming.

Yeah, that was fun, but once Johnny came back it wasn't about the Fantastic Four anymore. It felt like a "further adventures of" companion book. I'm more talking about the main book though.
 

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