Fantastic Four Movie discussion (SPOILERS)

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ngnot said:
As for the DVD, I also can't wait for it, all though I wouldn't mind seeing it again, the kids and 'tards in the theater really took away from the whole expeirence :x
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Same here. I hope they go director's cut on the DVD instead of stuffing all the deleted scenes into a separate track. It's become blatantly obvious where the deleted scenes go and which ones they were if you watched every single damn trailer and promo spot like I did.
 
They were going to review it on newsnight's late review (A kinda mid-high brow review show) this evening, but didn't bother because it wasn't good enough.

And they reviewed mr. and mrs. smith a few weeks back too.

I haven't seen it yet.

obviously.
 
Right, I've just acquired a copy so I'll be watching it in full tomorrow. But I did just watch the first 5 mins and thought it was crappy. :)

But, I do change my mind on movies, I expected Sin City to be drab but really enjoyed it so who knows what I'll think.

It does look trash though, and Alba has annoyed me already.
 
What a pile of tosh.

Just another case of a story being made dumb because it's a comic.
The prejudice of the industry against comic book stories has to be changing, it has to be. With Sin City and Batman Begins this year, and with Spiderman 2 last year, we've seen that superheroes don't mean dumb, so why do the studios seem to insist on it? Sure, appealing to a wider audience by making something less challenging works up to a point, the Fantastic Four is the point in hand.

Doctor Von Doom, the guy sees himself as an emperor, as a god, he's the inspiration behind Darth Vader amongst others and is one of the most feared bad guys in comic for the last 40 years. So why wasn't he scary?
For a story about two scientific geniuses battling it out with their wits as much as their powers, why was it so dumb?

The movie just seemed one step up from the Roger Corman effort, but in that took itself below it, because that was at least so bad that it was good.
It felt made for TV, and the only decent moment of characterisation was Johnny Storm getting Ben to slap cream in his own face.

Gruffudd and Evans did their jobs ok, Alba and Chilkis were terrible.

I don't know where I'd vote this on a scale of 10, but it's somewhere between Resident Evil: Apocalypse and Batman and Robin. If you loved those, then you must love this. There was absolutely nothing there to keep my attention.
 
Guijllons said:
What a pile of tosh.

Just another case of a story being made dumb because it's a comic.
The prejudice of the industry against comic book stories has to be changing, it has to be. With Sin City and Batman Begins this year, and with Spiderman 2 last year, we've seen that superheroes don't mean dumb, so why do the studios seem to insist on it? Sure, appealing to a wider audience by making something less challenging works up to a point, the Fantastic Four is the point in hand.

Doctor Von Doom, the guy sees himself as an emperor, as a god, he's the inspiration behind Darth Vader amongst others and is one of the most feared bad guys in comic for the last 40 years. So why wasn't he scary?
For a story about two scientific geniuses battling it out with their wits as much as their powers, why was it so dumb?

The movie just seemed one step up from the Roger Corman effort, but in that took itself below it, because that was at least so bad that it was good.
It felt made for TV, and the only decent moment of characterisation was Johnny Storm getting Ben to slap cream in his own face.

Gruffudd and Evans did their jobs ok, Alba and Chilkis were terrible.

I don't know where I'd vote this on a scale of 10, but it's somewhere between Resident Evil: Apocalypse and Batman and Robin. If you loved those, then you must love this. There was absolutely nothing there to keep my attention.
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"You are tough!" - Will Farrell
 
For the first time, I saw the movie yesterday... I thought it was good and it really seemed to capture the Fantastic Four in their essense, but there was a lot to be desired. The characters were all fleshed out well, neglecting Doom, who I thought was a rehashed Norman Osborn, and the fame and glory was well illustrated, although, at times, I thought it was forced... The bridge would give them 15 minutes of fame, not a life time's worth. Sure they have now, by the end of the movie, saved the city, but in the beginning of the movie it wasn't happening so freely as I thought it should have. I guess it was mostly Johnny kicking up dirt, but the crowds just didn't go away. Ben was the coolest character, Chiklis was born to play him, and I the rest of the Four were good, too. Surprisingly, I had little problem with Sue.

One big complaint, though, is the movie's similarities to Spider-Man. It was like Spider-Man with three other people attached at the hip. Some of the scenes and story lines ran dangerously close to this movie and that didn't go well. This movie needed to stand on its own two feet and, sadly, I don't think it did.

7 out of 10.
 
FF made 7 mill this weekend, bringing its total to 136 million dollars.






This is pretty annoying, ain't it? But not as much as ProjectX2's constant score updater in that character game. (I keed, I keed little dog little joke :wink: )
 
ultimatedjf said:
FF made 7 mill this weekend, bringing its total to 136 million dollars.

This is pretty annoying, ain't it? But not as much as ProjectX2's constant score updater in that character game. (I keed, I keed little dog little joke :wink: )
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Argh, the Character Battle thing only happens every few months. So if you can't keep up with updated posts every day for around a month, don't look in that thread. On the other hand, every movie thread has you doing this. :wink:
 
Hi, ourchair.

As you know, I'm another total Fantastic Four Fan. (Total Ultimate Fantastic Four fan. Geez...) So I looked at the movie in that kindly light. I enjoyed it, I saw it twice, and I bought the DVD the day it came out and I enjoy that too.

The movie you reviewed - excellent review! - reads a lot like the movie I saw. Not totally, because two people never see a movie exactly the same, but close. It's good, but not great. 6/10 from me.

The introduction of the characters was fast and good. There could not have been a better way to say hello to Johnny Storm than the stunt with him on his bike kissing his girl in the car. :D

I liked that we went by a direct path to the origin, merely alluding to events in the past. But I thought the fantastic event wasn't fantastic enough. I would have liked the space scenes to be flashier, and ideally to have no gravity, or some substitute for that, like clunky magnetic boots and/or tethers. I'm not asking for real science. There is no real science in the Fantastic Four, and I'm cool with that. Just make the environment seem more exotic, please. Make it more unusual, more fun.

The pseudo-science was lamer than it had to be. The temperatures for the Human Torch were silly, and there was no need for numbers at all. Doom and Reed quoting "Chemistry 101" at each other was weak. Since when is Reed made of rubber? He seems more to represent water. And what does happen when you rapidly cool hot metal, is Victor Von Doom being paralysed the typical consequence? This dialogue must have been hard to say. It was hard to listen to. The story did not need it.

I thought the fantastic family should have been slightly more loving and less dysfunctional. And there should have been a greater sense of fun. One more positive scene would have done it. Ben and Alicia might have added the extra touch of people successfully learning to get on with each other that I wanted.

But overall the movie was already good. I liked the breakfast table scene. That was pure Fantastic Four. And the Torch nailing the Thing with the duster and cream was perfect!

I will defend Jessica Alba, even though the crack about "Scientist Barbie with a Malibu Beach tan" is dead on the mark. As soon as I heard that Jessica Alba was going to be Sue Storm, I thought, against the people who told me the "bad" news" that this would work, and it mostly did. Sue Storm is a part that calls for drop dead beautiful, not a very good actress and pretty enough, like Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane Watson. Also, it was life and death that the actress be willing to open a comic book, form a reasonable opinion about who she was playing, and do her level best to put that character on screen. The Fantastic Four could not afford a Halle Berry. Jessica Alba is drop dead beautiful, she has a solid grasp of her character, and she put an honest effort in. Good enough for me.

I though Michael Chiklis rocked - I thought he was better than Chris Evans, which is saying a lot. The rubber suit was fine. The scene where he could not pick up his engagement ring because of his rocky fingers was touching.

Yes he could have used another scene for the transformation - but he did get to make an explosive entrance later. The missing scene was not nearly as bad a flaw as Anna Paquin not getting an emotional scene to show Rogue giving up her power in X-Men: The Last Stand (2006) - after which of course there was and could be no big, crashing scene for her.

I didn't like the Fantastic Four movie's Victor von Doom once he transformed. A bunch of what was wrong seemed completely unnecessary, just bad presentation. His mask was good but not quite there. His open coat and generally absent hood were bad, and there was no reason not to get them right. When he was wearing the mask, a human voice wasn't enough, and an electronically treated voice would have been better. There was no reason to have him firing lightning bolts always from arms hanging limply from his sides.

I have a serious case of envy for the kind of movie that Batman fans got in 2005, and for the two movies Spider-Man fans have gotten. I think the Hulk and X-Men movies are much better than Fantastic Four (2005) too. But, the movie was still more good than bad for a Fantastic Four fan.

I look forward eagerly to sequels, preferably with the Fantastic Four flare pistols, the Fantasticar, a wedding, etcetera. :smile:

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:
 
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ultimatedjf said:
Wow. Fantastic Four had a bigger opening weekend at the box office than Superman Returns did.
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Really?

FF's Opening Weekend: $56,061,504

SR's Estimated Opening Weekend: $84,208,000
 
Wow. Is that 260 M$ budget accurate?

Because it looks like The Devil Wears Prada will turn out to be a much more profitable movie than SR.

I saw it btw. Liked it.
 
ultimatedjf said:
Oy.


Click here.
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It's 5-day total is still $84 million.
Wow. Is that 260 M$ budget accurate?
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Not necessarily. The movie cost less than $200 million to make. $60 million was sunk into the series' various false starts, before SR was greenlit.
 
moonmaster said:
It's 5-day total is still $84 million.

Not necessarily. The movie cost less than $200 million to make. $60 million was sunk into the series' various false starts, before SR was greenlit.
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:shock: I presume a few head rolled over these 60 millions.
 
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E.Vi.L. said:
:shock: I presume a few head rolled over these 60 millions.
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The 15 year story of what it took to get a new Superman movie off the ground is a long and twisted tale. Here's an awesome article chronicling the whole disastrous thing:

"Superman V: The Whole Sordid Saga".

When you see what people like Tim Burton and J.J. Abrams were planning to do with the character, you may gain some some newfound appreciation for Superman Returns.
 
moonmaster said:
The 15 year story of what it took to get a new Superman movie off the ground is a long and twisted tale. Here's an awesome article chronicling the whole disastrous thing:

"Superman V: The Whole Sordid Saga".

When you see what people like Tim Burton and J.J. Abrams were planning to do with the character, you may gain some some newfound appreciation for Superman Returns.
Click to expand...

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I was just reading that review on AgonyBooth yesterday!!!! It's hilarious.....long as hell......but really funny.
 
And now everyone can get back on topid to the Fantastic Four movie, not what anyone else was going to do with Superman Returns.
 
I've read that originally Peyton Reed was scheduled to direct Fantastic Four (2005).

His qualification was having directed Bring It On (2000), starring Kirsten Dunst as cheerleader Torrance Shipman. That strikes me as an excellent qualification. Bring It On (2000) has the fun, bounce and comic pace that I think Fantastic Four (2005) needed. (Naturally Kirsten Dunst has to get some or a lot of the credit for that.)

But then Down with Love (2003) did less well than hoped for, and that was all for Peyton Reed. Tim Story got the job instead.

I think that was an unhappy turning point for Fantastic Four in movies.

Batman Begins (2005) got Christopher Nolan and is generally accepted as great. Spider-Man got Sam Raimi and has forged ahead to practically universal and deserved approval. Hulk (2003) got Ang Lee, and is hated by many and loved by some (including me), but it's not an ineptly made movie. X-Men (2000) and X2: X-Men United got Bryan Singer, who is outstanding, and X-Men: The Last Stand (2006) got Brett Ratner, who in my opinion was more than adequate to close out the series in an exciting action movie style, with some class and pizzazz.

Fantastic Four (2005) got Tim Story, and here ended all hope that Fantastic four were going to mean top quality fun and excitement in movies, as they once had in comics.

The last minute change with Jessica Alba needing to strip down to be invisible wasn't made to work smoothly as a joke. (It just sort of peters out as they all get through the crowd anyway. There's no follow-through.) Ben Grimm's fiance Debbie wandering into the New York night in her slip made no sense, and didn't seem to do anything useful. The actor who played Reed Richards has no American accent, and needs to learn all his lines phonetically at home, but throughout the movie he was being given new lines five minutes before he was to say them, meaning he had to concentrate 99% on getting an American accent and 1% on acting, and his acting reflects that. The space scenes were underwhelming, and the way the Fantastic Four were posed on chairs at the moments they were altered by the Cosmic Storm was lame. The way that Victor Von Doom was presented was also lame, starting with his blasting of the businessman Ned, neither cleverly using the water nor dramatically with an appropriate gesture, but with a lightning bolt from limply hanging arms. The Thing in the bar sounding like an earth tremor all the time was a lousy idea that could not have been sustained and should not have been tried out in one scene and left in regardless of his not sounding like that in the rest of the movie. I could add other examples. This stuff is all the director's business to get right.

I'm not blaming Tim Story for not having a Fantasticar when he didn't have the budget or the script to put one in, or anything like that. I'm blaming him for the job he was supposed to do, and didn't do right.

Do other people think that the failure of Down With Love (2003) was bad for the Fantastic Four? Or do you think it probably made little or no difference?
 
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David Blue said:
Do other people think that the failure of Down With Love (2003) was bad for the Fantastic Four? Or do you think it probably made little or no difference?
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I don't think "Down With Love" had anything to do with F4's results. Most people have not even seen "Down With Love". And of those who did....even less people actually got what he was trying to do. He was trying to make a campy/stylish Rock Hudson era pic. I think a lot of people were expecting it to be cheese and for the film to acknowledge it's cheeseness. Instead the film was cheese and went on about it's business. But that's neither here nor there.

Tim Story gave the audience a summer popcorn flick based on comic book characters. Not necessarily a comic book movie. I got the fact that it was gonna be big and cheesy. And when I heard about the budget...I didn't expect much either. And going in with little or no expectations....I wasn't disappointed.


I for one think its kinda lame for comic book movies to be judged against one another. Different comic books have their own personality. As do the directors who make them. Bryan Singer has a totally different directing style than Sam Raimi. Raimi has a different directing style than Ang Lee, who in turn has a style that differs from Nolan. Each director is gonna take the material he's given and put his own stamp on it to make it his. If we all wanted faithful transitions of comic characters to film...then why not give a crew and several million dollars to the comic creator/writer?

You a great Daredevil movie? Have Bendis write and direct while Maleev is director of photography?


I don't know...I'm kinda going off on some half-assed rant now.

All in all.....while F4 wasn't perfect....I still like it. Its entertaining enough for me to pop in the DVD player and not be bored outta my skull for 90 minutes.
 
Victor Von Doom said:
"Tim Story gave the audience a summer popcorn flick based on comic book characters. Not necessarily a comic book movie. I got the fact that it was gonna be big and cheesy. And when I heard about the budget...I didn't expect much either. And going in with little or no expectations....I wasn't disappointed."
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"It will be FANTASTIC!" was my hook.

I could see from the trailer that Fantastic Four (2005) wasn't all that expertly made, but I could live with that. I was expecting it to a be a bit cheesy and goofy in parts, and rough around the edges. My expectations of the acting were that Jessica Alba would fit right in. (And I still think the acting in Into The Blue (2005) was perfectly adequate and the music first rate.) So I was not expecting Ang Lee, but I was expecting Lee-Kirby explosiveness and good B-movie energy and looks.

I feel that instead what I got was - a lot of good points here and there, starting with Michael Chiklis and Chris Evans, but also - a director who did not have his act together, who didn't have a plan, who didn't know how to make things go snap! crackle! pop!

I was perfectly ready for Ioan Gruffudd as Mister Fantastic to be about the way Paul Walker later was in Into the Blue (2005) - looking the part, saying his lines OK, fine for Jessica Alba to work with, and what more do you want? I was ready to give that a pass, and gladly. But I didn't get that.

In the aftermath of the Thing Torch fight, the crowd of people pretending to talk when they're not - that is some of the lamest acting ever seen in a big comic book superhero movie, and I don't think every single person in that crowd was a dud actor; I blame the director. And this isn't a joke, or if it is, it's one that completely misfires and isn't funny.

I didn't expect Fantastic Four (2005) to be the sort of movie where you're looking at things that have no energy or spark, and you'e wondering if that is just idiotic or if it was meant to be yet another joke that didn't come off, or what?

Victor Von Doom said:
I for one think its kinda lame for comic book movies to be judged against one another. Different comic books have their own personality.
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I agree that they do, but as a Fantastic Four fan I hate the idea that this is defined as Fantatic Four's personality.

They were The World's Greatest Comic Magazine, and that was no idle boast. They were wild, they were hot, they were goofy and funny, they were explosive and dramatic. If one joke was a groaner (and many were, they were very much of their time), the next one might nail you.

Doctor Doom was scary - when he got the power of the Silver Surfer, that was one of the scariest things I have ever seen in comics, Kid Miracleman on the rampage included.

Lameness, lack of zap, should not define the collective personality of the Fantastic Four and their great enemy.

Victor Von Doom said:
As do the directors who make them. Bryan Singer has a totally different directing style than Sam Raimi. Raimi has a different directing style than Ang Lee, who in turn has a style that differs from Nolan. Each director is gonna take the material he's given and put his own stamp on it to make it his. If we all wanted faithful transitions of comic characters to film...then why not give a crew and several million dollars to the comic creator/writer?

You a great Daredevil movie? Have Bendis write and direct while Maleev is director of photography?
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I wasn't asking for an exact transcription of the comics, like Sin City (2005).

I envy Batman fans not because I think the Fantastic Four should be portrayed in the same style as Batman Begins (2005), but for the fact that Batman fans got a totally appropriate movie in a wholly appropriate style this time, with an overall vision, a director with his act together, extremely strong acting, music, the works - all appropriate to Batman. Fantastic Four fans didn't get that.

If anything, the best Fantastic Four movie is still The Incredibles (2004). If you want to see family, fun, travel, deadly serious conflict and melodramatic goofiness combining as they should, in style and with distinctive, appropriate music and a lively pace, that's where you can see it.

Victor Von Doom said:
I don't know...I'm kinda going off on some half-assed rant now.
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No more than me.

Victor Von Doom said:
All in all.....while F4 wasn't perfect....I still like it. Its entertaining enough for me to pop in the DVD player and not be bored outta my skull for 90 minutes.
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Me too. :smile:
 
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David Blue said:
"It will be FANTASTIC!" was my hook.

I could see from the trailer that Fantastic Four (2005) wasn't all that expertly made, but I could live with that. I was expecting it to a be a bit cheesy and goofy in parts, and rough around the edges. My expectations of the acting were that Jessica Alba would fit right in. (And I still think the acting in Into The Blue (2005) was perfectly adequate and the music first rate.) So I was not expecting Ang Lee, but I was expecting Lee-Kirby explosiveness and good B-movie energy and looks.

I feel that instead what I got was - a lot of good points here and there, starting with Michael Chiklis and Chris Evans, but also - a director who did not have his act together, who didn't have a plan, who didn't know how to make things go snap! crackle! pop!

I was perfectly ready for Ioan Gruffudd as Mister Fantastic to be about the way Paul Walker later was in Into the Blue (2005) - looking the part, saying his lines OK, fine for Jessica Alba to work with, and what more do you want? I was ready to give that a pass, and gladly. But I didn't get that.
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I expected nothing from the cast except for Doom. Sadly I was disappointed.

I still thought Chiklis and Evans did great as The Thing and Torch. It was kinda odd that thing was smallest character onscreen when he should've been the biggest. I understand the want for Thing to be human instead of CGI ala Hulk....but they should've gone a different way with the costume and taken their cue from Mr.Hyde in LXG. That was a pretty credible costume they made and in scenes of intense action when you need your big man to be mobile---go for the CGI. As long as the CGI doesn't look like something outta "Hoodwinked" I think you'll be good.

I have higher hopes for the sequel.

David Blue said:
I envy Batman fans not because I think the Fantastic Four should be portrayed in the same style as Batman Begins (2005), but for the fact that Batman fans got a totally appropriate movie in a wholly appropriate style this time, with an overall vision, a director with his act together, extremely strong acting, music, the works - all appropriate to Batman. Fantastic Four fans didn't get that.
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True. I will give 'em that. They got what they wanted and with the same director signed on to make the sequel...as well as the first one did...they'll get it again.

I think all fans should get the same thing. But at the same time I recognize that it's harder to make a "team" based movie rather than one lone hero. Time has to be split to delve into each character in order for you to care. That's where the films always fall apart. Some fans will always be disappointed that their fav character is pushed into the background and not given the screentime they believe he/she deserves.

David Blue said:
If anything, the best Fantastic Four movie is still The Incredibles (2004). If you want to see family, fun, travel, deadly serious conflict and melodramatic goofiness combining as they should, in style and with distinctive, appropriate music and a lively pace, that's where you can see it.
Click to expand...

Sadly...I agree. The Incredibles was everything that F4 should've been. But in that regards...would there have even been an Incredibles if not for the F4? But in F4's defense---Incredibles had a larger budget to work with and weren't bound by logistics and reality.

Oh well.......at least F4 wasn't Elektra. :wink:
 
Planet-man said:
FF needed a better power and execution for Doom. MacMahon did a good job, they just didn't do the character that well. And he didn't even Doom-out until the finale.
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I think did did a bad job, When he was "Doom-out" It didnt feel right, he had no body language, which is really needed when you face is covered. Seemed like he did a voice over for it months before they filmed. But it was just him everything in that movie just crapped on Doom's characterization
 

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