Fix the Ultimate Universe

The Overlord

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Recently there have been complaints on this board that the ultimate Universe is in decline. What do you think is needed to be done to fix Ultimate Universe?

One suggestion I have, no more throw away characters, when they introduce new characters to the UU, they should take the time to introduce 616 characters properly.
 

Neriek

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Well, I also think that it is kind of annoying how they have it so that characters appear EXACTLY when they abous to be in a story. I mean, Sand-Man is a classic example of this. They just wrote him into the story just before they were writing ultimate six, even though it happened a couple of months prior.

I think, as a thread somewhere in this forum suggests, that there needs to be something darker in the series. They have introduced Blade, so they could use that to make something darker.

I cannot really make that many suggestions, as I am no where near the veter some of the people are on this forum.
 
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Victor Von Doom

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Recently there have been complaints on this board that the ultimate Universe is in decline. What do you think is needed to be done to fix Ultimate Universe?

One suggestion I have, no more throw away characters, when they introduce new characters to the UU, they should take the time to introduce 616 characters properly.

That's such a loaded question. There's no quick repsonse. Each book is in need of different things.

UFF - The verdict is still out on this one. Millar's run was fantastic (no pun intended........or was it? :wink: ) but his arcs needed to be like 2-3 issues longer. Well we're getting that from Carey but there's more exposition than action. That's both good and bad. The story is being fleshed out more....but without some of the action--certain issues seem to drag.

Both Land and Ferry's art have been amazing. I do like Ferry's art a bit more because it seems to flow. Reed looks like a 19-21 year old as he should instead of the 26 year old Land drew. My only request is that Ferry try to blend his Johnny's look to Kubert/Immonen's look. I'm not digging the crew-cut look of Johnny at all.



UXM - It is my understanding that Kirkman was orginally signed on to create filler arcs until Singer could get around to his story. But with Singer's busy schedule and being more and more removed from the X-Men brand....who knows if we'll ever see that. Personally, I don't care. But Kirkman's arcs were horrible. I was this close to dropping the book. But then it seemed that he was staying on indefinitely. At that point he came out with Cable and was able to start laying down more permanent foundations and ideas for the title. Stuff he could build on later.

Kirkman's writing is solid. I was never a big fan of his work. But recently I've gone back and started re-reading his works. My opinions have changed. Cable was solid and it seems as if we're now getting some direction.

The one thing that DOES need to change on this book is the art. Since Kirkman's inception---he's gone back and forth between Raney and Oliver and now throwing Paquette in the mix. All 3 are wrong for this book. My opinion is that Kirkman should think about teaming up with his fellow "Invincible" artists and take on UXM. The previous 3 can't draw teens for crap. Raney is worse than Bachalo. Oliver is solid...but he tends to draw everyone the same. Paquette actually did ok...but he's drawing these kids in their 20s and making them mirror their older 616 counterparts. The art needs to change and they need to find someone who's gonna draw these teens as teens.



USM - O Sweet baby Jesus where to begin!??! This book is in dire need of fresh blood. Ok---first Bendis needs to get off the book. Like now! He's honestly run outta ideas. I can understand staying onboard to break the record....but the record is broken. Let it go. He's just hoarding the book and spewing out wastes of characters. There are plenty of rogues in Spidey's gallery to choose from. That doesn't mean you need to use them all in 3 arcs. He needs to spend a bit more time fleshing out some of the villians he's already got. Personally---I wouldn't hate to see another Kingpin arc. Or maybe another Venom. Bring back Osborn! Bring back Hobgoblin/Harry! Flesh them out a bit more! They mainly need to get rid of Bendis......but at that point it's a question of who do you bring in next? A lot of people would be thrilled with BKV.....as would I. But to be honest---I'd like someone else. A good idea would've been Palmiotti/Grey. They don't write anything deep.....but they have a great grasp on the young feel this book needs again.

And the art. I'm so glad Bagley is going. He needed to go. At one point his art was so stale that it hurt. But then around the Silver Sable arc---the colors seemed to change and be more crisper. That helped....but stale is still stale. I love that Immonen is coming onboard. If it was up to me he'd draw all the Ultimate titles! I'm that much of a fan. His vibrant style is desperately needed. Personally---when there were talks of who would replace Bags...the obvious choice seemed to be Brooks (the guy who does the Annuals). But myself and Proj were adamant about the wild, kick-*** artistic stylings of Skottie Young. Trust me.....they would've been awesome.



Ultimates - The book needs to actually come out more than once a quarter. Right now the book is perfect. But perfection can only last so long. I'm looking forward to the changes soon to come. I know Loeb is a great writer......so I have faith. He'll take the book into wild huge Avengers adventures territory instead of the politic heavy tone it has now. Faith.

The bringing on of Joe Mad is a decision that I'm hesitant about. I'm torn on whether to be excited or wary. But even his run on the book will end and then we get McGuiness! Teaming him back up with Loeb means nothing but good things for me. So the verdict is still out on this one. As long as the book comes out even bi-monthly I'll be happy.



Minis - Need to have more thought put into them. Especially with these big crossover ones. All the creative teams involved need to sit down with the book creators and flesh out some concrete timelines about the story. You can't have a character doing one thing in your mini....and then have them totally dismiss the event in thier respective books.

A big thing with them is that they're making minis outta whatever. Also...if they could NOT feature Wolverine in each of them....that'd be great. :wink:








............aaaaaaaand I'm spent.
 

Foolsfolly

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UFF- I'm trade waiting, I have no idea how God War is, so I have no opinion on it's current direction.

UXM- There are PAGES of people complaining against Kirkman's take on his first nine issues. And lets face it, nine issues of crap is bad for any title. Many almost left UXM, I stayed only because he promised Cable would be better.

He was right.

Cable is better but there are some problems that need to be addressed. The big one is that the title feels gimmicky. Sabretooth and Cornilus are back from the dead! They're making a Wolverine Clone! The Hellfire Club is back! Phoenix is a God being in the Earth! Cable is Wolverine! Rogue's arm is blown off! Prof X is dead! Beast is coming back!

That's a little too much. On the other hand, you can totally tell Kirkman is building up to something big, and the common thought is that Apocalypse is coming and he's even hinted at that.

But here's hoping he does either that or something better (Onslaught never was nor ever will be a good idea).

USM- Needs a quick silent mercy kill.

Bags and Bendis depart and someone else comes in. I read on some forum that Spidey has become a stale character in any universe. Seeing as how I've dropped all Spidey titles...I think I agree.

If I'm wrong, then Bendis is not the writer to make him a cool character again.

The next writer needs to build a nice group of support characters, read some of the early Lee-Spidey issues especially around issue 20-55. They had a great group of supporting characters (who are now either dead or nuts) and it only helped the character.

Ultimate Spidey seems to be in a huge runt, and the changing of the creators and the addition of a stronger supporting cast is just some of the changes needed.

Whoever writes next (or even Bendis) needs to stop writing Aunt May as such a *****.

The villains need more screen time and REASONS to why they do what they do.

I'm moving on.

Ultimates- NEEDS TO COME OUT ON TIME. Otherwise it's perfect. I can't speak for the next creative team, I haven't read anything from them. They don't look that...good. But it could be amazing.


The whole imprint:

Needs to stay away from the pitfalls of the genre!

Time travel is HARD TO DO. When a story involves traveling in time, it either is fun and creative, or old, boring, and continuity nightmares. Knowing this, writers should be told by their editors, "If you're going to do this, give it your all. Otherwise you'll only do harm."

CLONES- We all hate them. Admit it. There was a time in comic history (the 90s) where if someone died they were either clones or robots. Let's stay away from that nonsense.

No Clone Saga- What made Bendis really so sure that he could tackle the bane of Spider-Man?

No more minis unless it's needed.

Why have a mini about Wolverine's past when he's a lead character in UXM? Let those writers figure out and flesh out Wolverine.

Did we REALLY need Ultimate Power as a story? No. It's just another Hero vs Hero story....during the same year that Civil War is all over the place.

Hulk vs Wolverine, was good. But man...that brings me to the next point.

TIMELINESS IS NEXT TO GODLINESS- Get your books out on time.
 

SSJmole

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I've said it before but IMO the ultimate universe is in need of an anti-hero on going series e.g punisher or blade


When it comes to ultimate Spider-man have a villain come back again and again they did it with doc ock and green goblin why not do it with Venom , hobgoblin and the rest?


Ultimate Secret wars! is another must imo
 

E

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Like VVD said this is a loaded question, but I think first and foremost what needs to be done is to "Watchman-ize" the UU. The heart of the line should be realism - how these amazing and fantastic things can happen in a world similar to ours. I think if the writers took a step back and looked at the line as a whole, and the characters, and asked, knowing that these characters are established, what would happen if they were dropped into our world today - what would it be like? newuniversal is doing this very well. Supreme Power did it very well, at least at first. Ultimates was on the right track.

Once you take that step and firmly establish how things will work and how these characters will interact with "our world", things should fall into place nicely.

And the art should reflect this. Art like that by JH Williams, Jae Lee, etc - that's what this line should be about. Kubert isn't bad and I've really grown to like Immonen, but the "comic book"-y look should be done away with.

It would go a long way to help this line be taken seriously and draw a wider audience and get people reading a Spider-Man comic who would never dream of picking up a Spider-man comic. There are plenty of comics that cater to the X-Men crowd - if you just want to start with a clean slate as far as continuity goes, you can get the Marvel Adventures books.
 

Lynx

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The heart of the line should be realism - how these amazing and fantastic things can happen in a world similar to ours.

This is the key right here. This, along with the clean slate, are what got me into the Ultimate line.

My views have changed a bit since I first started reading, but I'll explain.

Should there be time travel? Yes, BUT ONLY in Fantastic Four. And it should be used VERY sparingly.

Should there be aliens? Yes, BUT ONLY in FF and the Ultimates and again, used sparingly. They should also be realistic.

Clones? Maybe, but they shouldn't be used as a gimmick, to bring someone back to life, should be only used sparingly, and should only be brought up in Spider-Man (ONCE!) or Fantastic Four.

Some of the biggest blunders of the UU recently?

UFF- Making the FF too outlandish. I know a lot of people liked Millar's run. I thought it was decent, but it wasn't realistic enough. Sure, the Fantastic Four need to have fantastic journeys, but things like Reed's mech? A super pill? Magic? It's too much. Ellis and Carey have the right idea, in my opinion.

UXM- Leave Phoenix as ambiguous as possible. Trying to explain it ruins it. Cable should not be from the future. Leave Wolverine and Sabertooth's relationship ambiguous. Leave Wolverine's past alone.

USM - Stop throwing away characters. Develop them. If you do a clone story, keep the clones to Peter. Don't give any of Peter's "normal" friends super-powers. Carnage and Venom need to be related. Keep things like vampire and magic out of USM (OR hell, out of the UU altogether). Don't fundamentally change a character or his powers.

Ultimates - (Some of this is conjecture based on Ultimates 3 and 4) Needs to come out on time. It needs to keep the political intrigue. Villains need a bit more development. It needs to not tread on other books' characters (Venom?)

Minis - Need to have an impact on the Universe or not be done at all. Simple really.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Dr.Strangefate said:
Spider-Man is the everyman... Which is why he needs to be mistrusted by most of the city, excluding those who see themselves in him.

He needs to believe with all his might that with great power comes great responsibility. He knows down deep that this above all things is true, in every aspect of life.

He needs to have a sense of humor, and he needs to crack jokes as his only method of dealing with the fear he has of the work he needs to do. The jokes keep him sane, and are a crucil method of defeating his enemies. he could let himself be paralyzed with fear face to face with a mass-murdering billionaire who killed his first true love, or he could make fun of the silly mask he wears until he gets the chance to beat the **** out of him.

He needs to have a best friend who is torn between his role of being peter's best friend, and turning to the darkness within him... Basically filling the role of the man on the edge, who needs to make the decision between facing responsibility and becoming a good person, or letting himself fall apart through selfish emotions. (that is why Harry shouldn't have died in 616, or Gwen in the UU)

Peter needs friends and rolemodels... HUMAN friends and rolemodels.

I think he needs to be around the Daily Bugle, but mostly because J. Jonah Jameson -is- a father figure to peter, as is Robbie Robertson. JJJ is the father who will never be able to show his respect for peter in any open way, but deep down he feels it. Robbie is the balance, the part of JJJ that makes him human. Dr. Curt Connors was almost at that point of being a father figure in the UU which is why I was disapointed when the character was tossed aside unceremoniously in the Carnage arc. This is also why I liked Ezekiel before they turned him into a selfish bastard. Norman Osborn needs to see himself in this position, he wants Peter to be his son, but in the end he is a corrupt, evil mirror image of Peter's father. The people who fill this role (or want to fill this role) are crucial and necessary to Peter. This is why Uncle Ben is symbolically important.

People would argue for Aunt May, but shes only there to remind Peter of Ben, and frankly I find she holds him back as a character.

I happen to agree that him being married closes off a lot of things, were I to reboot I'd definitely have MJ show up as an on-again, off-again romance with the beautiful actress... but MJ would fly off to Hollywood for months at a time and Peter would never really be able to have him to himself. Remember, he's the everyman! The everyman doesn't get the glamorous movie-star in the end, his entire relationship with her would be repeated flings.

All of us have great power, and thus all of us have great responsibility. THAT is what this comic is about. THAT is why Peter's supporting cast is necessary. THAT is why Peter Parker is one of the most important comic book creations ever made. Its not who Peter Parker is, its what he means.

I posted that on the "Essence of Spider-Man" thread.

Peter needs to be brought back to basics. It's that simple.
 

SSJmole

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Keep things like vampire and magic out of USM (OR hell, out of the UU altogether).

but then you would loose the possibility of alot of 616 characters been ultimatized (i think that's the word) like Blade , Dr strange ect....

and people wanting realism then today's world would honestly not be that effected by things in comic book universe. Why? This is the generation that grew up with Star wars , Buffy , Matrix , Lord of the rings , Harry potter and much much more.

We will have been de-sensitized to things like this and at the same not to include magic ect..... The reason things like films are so popular is we WANT to believe in magic ect...


But you can handle it it a slight more realistic way.
 

Ultimate Houde

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I think we need Bob Vila to help us out on this one. Bob?

Bob Vila: Well, first we need to recreate the arch over here, and then get to work on the foundation, it looks like it's crumbling. That should keep us busy for about a month, but join us tomorrow and watch us get started on the back porch, just in time to destroy the kitchen, and remove the old wallpaper in the living room.
 

Foolsfolly

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I've said it before but IMO the ultimate universe is in need of an anti-hero on going series e.g punisher or blade


When it comes to ultimate Spider-man have a villain come back again and again they did it with doc ock and green goblin why not do it with Venom , hobgoblin and the rest?


Ultimate Secret wars! is another must imo

I don't see why the UU needs an anti-hero. I consider most of the Ultimates to be anti-heroes (not in the classical sense but most of them are not good people).

We have Wolverine in UXM. I don't see what Blade could add to the UU, and I don't see what you could possibly do with the nutcase Punisher that Bendis created.

If there's ONE more ongoing Ultimate book that has to be made, I vote for Daredevil. He's not messed up yet and many of his villains haven't been introduced in the UU.
 

Willverine

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Number one: Get Bendis and Bagley out of the UU until he can come up with some original ideas that don't make it look like he's rushing through the planning stages and half-assing it all the way to the bank. There are so many glaring examples of his Shenanigans in USM that it makes one's head spin. The Clone Saga did NOT need to be redone. When the original clone saga happened in the 90's, I dropped all my subscriptions to Spider-Man titles. It was too convoluted then, and it's too convoluted now. Bendis COULD HAVE improved upon the concept but he failed. MJ as She-Wolf and Scorpion being nothing more than a Parker clone were horrible. MJ should always be without powers (see Strangefate's post) and Scorpion was/is a major player in the Spider-Man mythos. In the UU, he's no more than a Parker clone destined for obscurity and/or a quick death. Other examples of Bendis' incompetency at making old things new or making new things awesome: Deadpool and Omega Red having any part in USM when it's a no-brainer that they should've ben introduced in UXM or a UXM-related title (such as a Wolverine mini or the like), Ultimate Punisher (what a horrible, horrible Ultimization.), Ultimate Daredevil being a total a-hole, Ultimate Morbius looking like he came straight out of a 70's book. The list goes on, but I'd like to move on from Bendis and the total decline of USM.

UFF is good, but I would like to see more consistency between writers and artists. There seems to be a change in looks and attitudes and situations when the creative staff on this book changes. I loved Millar's run, and I liked Ellis' run (except for the Doom with goat legs crap) and I'm enjoying the current arc. However, when the staff changes, it's like we get a whole new version of the UFF. I don't like that very much. Also, it's time to put a cap on Reed's genius. We don't have to stop him, but the whole idea of him getting smarter and smarter as every second goes by is stupid. If that was the case, there would be no need for the Ultimate Universe because he would've cured all diseases, stopped all crime and invented safeguards for earth to prevent alien invasion. He also would've built a better mousetrap, broken the tax code, been able to provide food for every hungry mouth on earth and stop global warming.

Ultimates. I have no complaints! Oh wait... yeah I do. It would be nice if Ultimates came out at least every TWO months as opposed to every FOUR months, and I would've liked to have seen some of the villains that Millar and Hitch introduced stick around a little longer. Still, I can't complain about that because the way they've all died has been light years better than anything they would've done had they lived. Abomination getting his lunch eaten by the Hulk, Hurricane getting liquified by Quicksilver, and Dynamo getting vaporized by Iron Man 6... BRILLIANT! All that being said, I am not looking forward to Loeb and Mad's run on the Ultimates. There is no way in hell it can stand up to the last 2 volumes. Millar and Hitch are a hard act to follow, especially conisdering Mad's more cartoony art style, which I think Ultimates will suffer because of.

I can't comment too much on UXM as I've only really started to read this title again. I stuck with it for quite some time when it started out, and those original stories were outstanding, but I lost interest after a while. Kirkman is really impressing me with the Cable arc. It does have it's faults, yes, but nothing that really stands out as being a total bane to the series itself.

Overall, I agree with a lot of the ideas about time travel and especially, CLONES! That, and the dead returning to life. No need for it, especially now when the UU is relatively young. Maybe five or ten years down the line, you can have Beast and others show back up, but really, the credo of the UU in terms of that should be "the dead stay dead" for as long as possible. I think that the Marvel editors should also keep a short leash on the creative teams to make sure that any new (or new versions of) characters are handled well and not just a rehash of the 616 versions (which is a big part of Bendis' problem).

Anyway...
 
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Gemini

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UXM: they need to be writing stories, more like the Vaughn run, everyonce in a while throw in some X-Men: First Class like stories

UFF: this is the one book i am 100% satisfied with in the ultimate universe, the only thing i can think of is speed up the pacing a bit

USM: main problem is that Bendis is completely tapped, get some fresh blood in there maybe Peter David, then nearly every new character introduced in this book is a throwaway character, Spider-man's rogue gallery must be getting pretty close to tapped out now, have a return villain show up everyonce in a while

Ultimates: keep it as close to Ultimates vol. 1 as possible and you can't go wrong

Mini's: make less of them, one a year tops, and they have to be fantastic, with real repurcussion's in the ultimate universe
 

Victor Von Doom

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I think we need Bob Vila to help us out on this one. Bob?

Bob Vila: Well, first we need to recreate the arch over here, and then get to work on the foundation, it looks like it's crumbling. That should keep us busy for about a month, but join us tomorrow and watch us get started on the back porch, just in time to destroy the kitchen, and remove the old wallpaper in the living room.

I'm replying this brilliant-but overlooked post so that Houde doesn't go off on a rant about him wasting jokes on the less intelligent.





.......and because he's got one of his clones making a deathray and I like my intestines in the non-crispy status they're in now.
 
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Random

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As a whole, there's nothing that bad about the UU, each series has its ups and downs. Except for USM which has pretty much been down for the pass 40-so issues. The biggest problem is Bendis. He's done great work starting the the UU and laying the foundations, but when you run out of steam, you run out of steam. Early USM was great I loved it, it got me back into comics, but I want Bendis to stay out of the UU for atleast a few years. The biggest problem is USM because they will never replace Bendis, all the other titles have gotten new writers and they have evened out the bad and the good, but Bendis is only getting worse.
 

Lynx

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As a whole, there's nothing that bad about the UU, each series has its ups and downs. Except for USM which has pretty much been down for the pass 40-so issues. The biggest problem is Bendis. He's done great work starting the the UU and laying the foundations, but when you run out of steam, you run out of steam. Early USM was great I loved it, it got me back into comics, but I want Bendis to stay out of the UU for atleast a few years. The biggest problem is USM because they will never replace Bendis, all the other titles have gotten new writers and they have evened out the bad and the good, but Bendis is only getting worse.

To be honest, I'd rather have someone replace Bendis on USM and have Bendis take up his Ultimate Knights idea and make it into the fifth ongoing.
 

SSJmole

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I don't see why the UU needs an anti-hero. I consider most of the Ultimates to be anti-heroes (not in the classical sense but most of them are not good people).

We have Wolverine in UXM. I don't see what Blade could add to the UU, and I don't see what you could possibly do with the nutcase Punisher that Bendis created.

If there's ONE more ongoing Ultimate book that has to be made, I vote for Daredevil. He's not messed up yet and many of his villains haven't been introduced in the UU.



Blade (i've not read his comics but i would pick him) adds the following -

Three successful films. So fans of the film who never read his comic would pick it up to read from the start.

Different to alot of heroes where dare devil is a good pick he is another urban hero in a costume. Darker than spider-man but still. Blade is a vampire and that creates the possibility of really dark and disturbing stuff that would attract an older audience

Not meant as raciest but he is a big named black hero. That also expands the audience
 

ProjectX2

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I don't see the point of adding an Ultimate Blade title. He's had movies, cool. They were pretty good, but they were also a couple of years ago. He's had a TV show that was cancelled. That's not good.

This, and the fact that his comic was just rebooted in 616, and isn't selling well... I don't see the point for an Ultimate Blade ongoing.
 

DGspider-fan

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Yeah Blade is a cool character but I don't think he needs his own Ultimate comic.
 

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