How do you rate Bendis/Maleev run on Daredevil

How do you rate Bendis/Maleev's run on Daredevil?


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TheManWithoutFear

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For those of you who read and hopefully those of you who will read it later. How did Bendis do on this. I can agree on a lot of his flaws in some other titles but I think he really put his heart into this. He loves the character and it really shows.

Alex Maleev's art was very hard to get used too. When I think about Daredevil from now on, it will always be his Daredevil.

Maybe my opinions are "one dimensional" but this title plays a huge part in why I'm on this site everyday and reading comics. I owe a lot to the team of Brian Bendis and Alex Maleev.
 
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ourchair

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I'm waiting till I get my mitts on the final chapter of Murdock Papers before I vote, but all in all this has been excellent. An absolute five-stars unless he does something crazy like turn Murdock into a kung-fu racoon before Brubaker takes over.

This is not to say the run has been perfect, as Bendis has adjusted gears and changed directions in ways contrary to what he's promised (hence why I stopped paying attention to much of Marvel's publicity machine) and sometimes he just lets his plots resolve themselves.

But regarding Frank Miller, Bendis has done an excellent job of working with the history and the themes he established close to a quarter decade ago. Unlike other writers, he didn't try to ignore what has come before, nor did he try to ape it. That in itself is a feat that rarely happens in this title.

I also have a lot to say about Maleev's artistic development on this book but I'll save that for later discussion. Instead I want to bring up color. Yes, color. I seriously miss the work of Matt Hollingsworth whose moody scene-based color schema really enhanced the atmosphere of this book.

Hollingsworth chose all sorts of interesting ideas that became the color guide for later colorists, but none played with them as effectively as he did --- blue-green-gray grime on the streets, the orangey sunlight filtered through office blinds and the dark gray hues that light scenes involving secrets (like the FBI office in Out, and the scene when Vanessa 'punishes' her son.)

But on the whole, the manner in which this team has addressed urban history, criminal sociology, the meaning of heroic figures in relation to the common man, etc., etc. is far and above many levels higher than what anyone else has done with the character... even Frank Miller.
 

Bass

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I dunno how to vote.

I thought the run was absolutely terrific and genuinely exciting until the issue where Daredevil, Cage, and Spidey beat up the Yakuza and DD fixes all his problems when he realises he's having a nervous breakdown because that's what he was told.

Once that happened, I lost all interest in the title, and the last issue I picked up was Decalogue part 2.

But up until then it was a 4 for me. Nervous breakdown = 0.

So I could split the difference and go for 2. I dunno. Maleev deserves a lot more than that. He's brilliant.
 
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ourchair

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Bass said:
I dunno how to vote.

I thought the run was absolutely terrific and genuinely exciting until the issue where Daredevil, Cage, and Spidey beat up the Yakuza and DD fixes all his problems when he realises he's having a nervous breakdown because that's what he was told.
Yeah, I hated that.

Any Psych major like I can tell you that you can't just fix a guy who's having a nervous breakdown by just telling him he's having a nervous breakdown. True, psychological assistance comes from within, but it doesn't happen just like that like some kind of Bendis-patented deus ex machina.

Bass said:
Once that happened, I lost all interest in the title, and the last issue I picked up was Decalogue part 2.
My other problem with Bendis' run is that the Widow arc felt so inconsequential, ESPECIALLY after a half-hearted resolution to Murdock's 'nervous breakdown'. The reason I don't hold it against Bendis is because I kind of expect a less weighty arc to be wedged somewhere in any writer's long-term run, even if I don't necessarily want it.

If Bendis made the same habit of bad resolutions in Daredevil that he does in other comics, then I could probably complain about it in the same way Millar has done in two straight arcs of UFF (and I promise to post about my problems with that, I assure you)

Bass said:
But up until then it was a 4 for me. Nervous breakdown = 0.

So I could split the difference and go for 2. I dunno. Maleev deserves a lot more than that. He's brilliant.
Maleev is indeed brilliant. But so is Hollingsworth. Don't forget him.
 

TheManWithoutFear

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ourchair said:
Yeah, I hated that.

Any Psych major like I can tell you that you can't just fix a guy who's having a nervous breakdown by just telling him he's having a nervous breakdown. True, psychological assistance comes from within, but it doesn't happen just like that like some kind of Bendis-patented deus ex machina.
I never thought he got over the breakdown, personally. I thought he just sort've "sucked it up" and realized he wasn't the only person being sucked into the hell hole of his life (Foggy, Milla, the public).

My other problem with Bendis' run is that the Widow arc felt so inconsequential, ESPECIALLY after a half-hearted resolution to Murdock's 'nervous breakdown'. The reason I don't hold it against Bendis is because I kind of expect a less weighty arc to be wedged somewhere in any writer's long-term run, even if I don't necessarily want it.
Widow, Decalogue I loved. I liked how there were these little stories happening while everything else was going on. It made it feel more realistic then just some kind've tie in that Widow had to it all. If you think about where DD: Father and Punisher Vs. Daredevil fall in, I enjoy those minis for the same reason. They're some of the events that take place within or around the year Daredevil is Kingpin.

If Bendis made the same habit of bad resolutions in Daredevil that he does in other comics, then I could probably complain about it in the same way Millar has done in two straight arcs of UFF (and I promise to post about my problems with that, I assure you)
I dunno how happy you'll be. But knowing that he just tosses this hot rock right into Brubaker's hands as it's still burning should tell you it's not about just saying, "As the current writer, I need to wrap this up." Bendis does wrap up part of his run but there's still a lot of story left to tell.


P.S. I thought you stopped reading it? :p
 

Bass

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ourchair said:
Yeah, I hated that.

Any Psych major like I can tell you that you can't just fix a guy who's having a nervous breakdown by just telling him he's having a nervous breakdown. True, psychological assistance comes from within, but it doesn't happen just like that like some kind of Bendis-patented deus ex machina.

It was just bollocks.

Pissed me off so much. Daredevil was the only Bendis title I was actually enjoying at the time - the last title of his I've ever enjoyed - and he just ****ed it because he's such an unbelievably lazy hack.
 

ProjectX2

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I had downloaded most of it since I'd heard great things. I was reading through it, thinking it was nothing great, it was still a good comic, and I still had read a lot worse, when I got to the Milla arc. It was then that I realised I didn't really care anymore.

Sorry Maleev, your art is wonderful, and sorry Bendis, this was probably your best work, but it's not my cup of tea.
 

The Overlord

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TheManWithoutFear said:
I never thought he got over the breakdown, personally. I thought he just sort've "sucked it up" and realized he wasn't the only person being sucked into the hell hole of his life (Foggy, Milla, the public).

Widow, Decalogue I loved. I liked how there were these little stories happening while everything else was going on. It made it feel more realistic then just some kind've tie in that Widow had to it all. If you think about where DD: Father and Punisher Vs. Daredevil fall in, I enjoy those minis for the same reason. They're some of the events that take place within or around the year Daredevil is Kingpin.

I dunno how happy you'll be. But knowing that he just tosses this hot rock right into Brubaker's hands as it's still burning should tell you it's not about just saying, "As the current writer, I need to wrap this up." Bendis does wrap up part of his run but there's still a lot of story left to tell.


P.S. I thought you stopped reading it? :p

The Decalogue lost points for realism when they brought in the demon baby. The end of that arc was just silly, some guy named Larry (not Mr. Fear, not Copperhead, or any other important villain who is named Larry) is summoning a baby demon for some reason and that's it. The mystery villain was just some guy, lame. The Bendis run was hit or miss, so I give it 3 stars.
 
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TheManWithoutFear

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The Overlord said:
The Decalogue lost points for realism when they brought in the demon baby. The end of that arc was just silly, some guy named Larry (not Mr. Fear, not Copperhead, or any other important villain who is named Larry) is summoning a baby demon for some reason and that's it. The mystery villain was just some guy, lame. The Bendis run was hit or miss, so I give it 3 stars.
I hate when people ***** because "Larry" wasn't a former villain. He was an outcast of The Hand. It was a completely badass concept. We already had Jester, bringing in someone like Mr. Fear, who does not practice dark arts, would be so lame.
 

The Overlord

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TheManWithoutFear said:
I hate when people ***** because "Larry" wasn't a former villain. He was an outcast of The Hand. It was a completely badass concept. We already had Jester, bringing in someone like Mr. Fear, who does not practice dark arts, would be so lame.

Then don't name him Larry, besides Copperhead's real name was Larry and he's a demon spawn. Not any of that matters, the baby demon thing was lame no matter how you slice it. Seriously why did he summon the demon baby and why did he blow his head off. Larry was a pretty lame villain. You just have to accept the fact that not everyone is going to like Bendis' DD as much as you did. Some people love it, some people hate it, I thought it was hit or miss.
 
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ourchair

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TheManWithoutFear said:
I never thought he got over the breakdown, personally. I thought he just sort've "sucked it up" and realized he wasn't the only person being sucked into the hell hole of his life (Foggy, Milla, the public).
You don't just 'suck it up' when you're having a breakdown. A breakdown is a very serious thing that most psychiatrists would tell you needs serious medical and therapeutic attention, and a real need to address the fundamental issues behind that breakdown.

The problem is that a lot of writers treat these concepts with the same kind of oversimplification as pop psychology. You know those people who tell you they're 'OC' because they don't like you messing with the arrangement of their chairs? That's not obsessive-compulsive disorder, that's just being fussy.

For someone to alienate his friends and marry his girlfriend suddenly while beating the crap out of the underworld may be grounds for a nervous breakdown, but if all it takes to cure that is being told that this behavior is a problem, then that makes the gravity of the so-called nervous breakdown rather suspect.

That's like a drug addict suddenly cleaning up after being told that his drug thing is a problem. In fact, the more I talk about this and think about it, the more stupid it becomes. Now I agree with Bass.

God that was a STUPID way to resolve his problems.

MWOF said:
P.S. I thought you stopped reading it? :p
What gave you that impression? I've always been reading Daredevil, I just don't talk about it much. Another incentive for that is that I get my comics late, so I make it a point not to really visit the Daredevil news and discussion threads as well.
 

The Overlord

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ourchair said:
You don't just 'suck it up' when you're having a breakdown. A breakdown is a very serious thing that most psychiatrists would tell you needs serious medical and therapeutic attention, and a real need to address the fundamental issues behind that breakdown.

The problem is that a lot of writers treat these concepts with the same kind of oversimplification as pop psychology. You know those people who tell you they're 'OC' because they don't like you messing with the arrangement of their chairs? That's not obsessive-compulsive disorder, that's just being fussy.

For someone to alienate his friends and marry his girlfriend suddenly while beating the crap out of the underworld may be grounds for a nervous breakdown, but if all it takes to cure that is being told that this behavior is a problem, then that makes the gravity of the so-called nervous breakdown rather suspect.

That's like a drug addict suddenly cleaning up after being told that his drug thing is a problem. In fact, the more I talk about this and think about it, the more stupid it becomes. Now I agree with Bass.

God that was a STUPID way to resolve his problems.


What gave you that impression? I've always been reading Daredevil, I just don't talk about it much. Another incentive for that is that I get my comics late, so I make it a point not to really visit the Daredevil news and discussion threads as well.

Agreed and Daredevil having a mental breakdown is becomming a cliche at this point. He had one during Born Again, I'm pretty sure he had one during the Ann Nocenti years and he his having one now. How played out an you get?
 

TheManWithoutFear

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The Overlord said:
Agreed and Daredevil having a mental breakdown is becomming a cliche at this point. He had one during Born Again, I'm pretty sure he had one during the Ann Nocenti years and he his having one now. How played out an you get?
I thought he got his *** kicked in Nocenti's run. Not a mental breakdown.


And Ourchair, I'm not saying he's sucking it up and he got over it. I just got the impression that he never got over it.
 

The Overlord

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TheManWithoutFear said:
I thought he got his *** kicked in Nocenti's run. Not a mental breakdown.


And Ourchair, I'm not saying he's sucking it up and he got over it. I just got the impression that he never got over it.

Its debatable, the whole forgetting who is and becomming a boxer is at least similar to a break down, in my opinion. Anyway I still think the mental breakdown thing is an overused device in DD stories.
 

Bass

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TheManWithoutFear said:
And Ourchair, I'm not saying he's sucking it up and he got over it. I just got the impression that he never got over it.

Matt kinda fixed his life and sorted his problems out once he found out he was having a breakdown. Bendis used the fact Matt knew about his breakdown to resolve all his plotlines. It's false. It doesn't matter if Matt hasn't 'gotten over it' because he's resolved all the problems in his life with this arcane knowledge of his own soul.

It's deus ex machina, its sloppy, and it's certainly not up to the standards the title had set up to that point.
 
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The Overlord

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Bass said:
Matt kinda fixed his life and sorted his problems out once he found out he was having a breakdown. Bendis used the fact Matt knew about his breakdown to resolve all his plotlines. It's false. It doesn't matter if Matt hasn't 'gotten over it' because he's resolved all the problems in his life with this arcane knowledge of his own soul.

It's deus ex machina, its sloppy, and it's certainly not up to the standards the title had set up to that point.

Yeah, the whole mental breakdown thing did seem kinda of lazy, didn't it?
 

Bass

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It really, really was. Bendis is simply not a very good writer.

But everyone loves him.

So I dunno. I must be wrong.
 

The Overlord

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Bass said:
It really, really was. Bendis is simply not a very good writer.

But everyone loves him.

So I dunno. I must be wrong.

In my opinion Bendis is a hit or miss writer, he's not a bad writer like some people say he is, but he isn't the comic book god others say he is. His hits are really great (Purple arc in Alias), but his misses can be pretty bad (Avengers Disassembled).
 

tractorbeam

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I just finished #71-81. I liked it a lot and after reading what Bendis had to say at the end, I really want to go back and read the rest of his run.
I'm definitely staying for Brubaker.
 

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