Hulk Mini (Speculations)

Caduceus

The Original Muffins Man
compound said:
According to the ever-reliable First Appearances Thread, a "General Talbot" was first shown in Ultimate Fantastic Four #5, alongside Gen. Ross, but his first name was never stated. I don't know whether this has been clarified further, since then.
I believe that was his only appearance to date.
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
compound said:
According to the ever-reliable First Appearances Thread, a "General Talbot" was first shown in Ultimate Fantastic Four #5, alongside Gen. Ross, but his first name was never stated. I don't know whether this has been clarified further, since then.

I'm gonna have to go back and check that out then... thanks Compound.
 

ourchair

Well-Known Member
Guij, ultra cool thoughts there. I respond with the following:

Guijllons said:
We'll need to look at the personality of Banner a little. Coz I don't think he's as simple as we immediately presume. We have to do this to really understand what he will do next.

Banner states, supposedly posthumously, that the Ultimates were the best friends that he's ever had. So we can gather from that that he's low on the social skills area. But wait-a-minute, Betty Ross is a fine looking woman. And really, because we care so much about the Banner character, is this because he's a loser, or is it because he's actually quite charming? I think it's the latter, he has the charm or a spoilt child, and the tantrums to prove it. We feel pity on him, yet I feel he's perhaps a little more controlling (in that childlike way) than we have actually given him credit for.

So what will he do next? I feel that Banner has a jeffrey dahmer*type personality here. He's introspective and quiet when he's alone, but when he is on a mission, then he can be as charming as anyone. You think he got to be head of the SHIELD supersoldier program simply because he was bright? He would have maneuver himself into that position, because it was his dream. The polarity of the Banner character in himself, if far more interesting that the Banner/Hulk dynamic.

In the 616 universe, Banner cannot control the Hulk, it's his curse. I feel that in this universe, the Hulk is his way of absolving himself from responsibility of his actions, his tantrums. And through this, I feel that he will be able to control the Hulk a lot better, and induce the Hulk when needed. We know that Banner has turned into the Hulk a few times while in confinement, who are we to say that it was not just some way of seeking attention?
I completely agree with you on that take, but I guess I didn't seem to find the words to articulate it that you did. The idea that Hulk is really much more of his "infant" aspect than it is his "rage" makes a lot of sense and still stays in line with some of the canonical interpretations of the 616 character.

The thing is, I've never felt that Banner/Hulk in the Ultimate universe is the emotionally repressed wimp/rage-induced monster dichotomy that is so easy to assign to the character so much as he is the toxic elements of an accomplishment/attention oriented man who has been driven to frustration by his own recent failures.

I know this sounds suspiciously like Ultimate Henry Pym, but I think it makes the character even stronger because then we have a psychological relationship between the Man and the Marvel (whereas Henry Pym is more like the Misogynist Man-Marvel) that plays off against each other. In this new Man/Marvel relationship, what poisons Banner's dreams, what crushes his spirit becomes exorcised through Hulk as opposed to the old relationship of Hulk attuning Banner to "emotions he never acknowledged".

I'm not too sure about Banner being a charmer, although this hypothetical Hulk mini we're talking about should portray him as charismatic, but I do believe that he should have had a certain amount of glamorous achievements in his scientific career before he had particpated in the Super-Soldier program: accomplishments not in military technology but in biochemical breakthroughs that won him a certain degree of nobility within the scientific community.

Thus, the Banner we meet in Millar's Ultimates is easily explained as being the logical result of years of being unable to crack the Super Soldier: frustrated, burned out and maybe even lacking in social skills at this point. He's gone kind of kooky and the quest to recreate the Holy Grail of posthuman engineering has consumed his life to the detriment of his relationship with Betty Ross (who he presumably met at the height of his fame) and as such, he has tried to cut corners and look for the most desparate of solutions: This is how he turned himself into a rampaging maniac; this is why he ended up destroying Manhattan twice.

In short, it's a little like Kevin Bacon's character from Paul Verhoeven's Hollow Man.

More soon.
 

Guijllons

Well-Known Member
'Charmer' may have not been totally the appropriate word. But I do think he has devices that he uses to get what he wants. Since the relationship with Betty is failing, he develops a new device. After all, and all that he is, he's no Freddy Prinz Junior. He's not big. And we all saw how Betty reacted after the Hulk thing, if anything, she was flattered, and can I say, a little bit turned on by it all. Banner wins again.

Also, I don't think Banner ever got sloppy. For all his failings, he's no slouch when it comes to his job. I just feel that that is against Banners character. Perhaps his ability as a geneticist is what he really clings onto, and motivates him to use these tools of 'persuasion' (if they could be called that).

Oh, and try to correct my typos in your head, I'm forever typing 'of' when I mean 'or' and vice versa, as with 'is' and 'if'. (from my previously posted statement, and statements to come)
 

Solaris

Well-Known Member
ooooh, i like how this is going.

thanks guij and ourchair for some very entertaining ideas. i can see it coming together nicely.

what of the fury/ross/the ultimates connection to this series though? personally, i'd like to see some of the historic 'glue' between banner and the ross's (father and daughter) explained in more detail. also, banner and ross, in their last intimate chat before he was convicted, had this argument: he first accused her of being the reason he has turned himself into what he has become, then tells her it's not her fault (which of course it isnt). but, he says 'somebody else would have just accepted the way i was. would have made me feel less pathetic'
i want to know more about why betty ross would have belittled banner if he was the top scientist he was. plus the general had trust in him, didn't he?
and, how betty ross, if she feels guilty about it (which i am not sure she does - she seems too much of a cold-hearted cow to me) will try to 'make amends', to make good and help banner in the future? maybe her PR campaign will be to cover up for him even within SHIELD and associated groups?

oh, this may of course be old hat to you g33ks :oops:
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
Solaris said:
ooooh, i like how this is going.

thanks guij and ourchair for some very entertaining ideas. i can see it coming together nicely.

what of the fury/ross/the ultimates connection to this series though? personally, i'd like to see some of the historic 'glue' between banner and the ross's (father and daughter) explained in more detail. also, banner and ross, in their last intimate chat before he was convicted, had this argument: he first accused her of being the reason he has turned himself into what he has become, then tells her it's not her fault (which of course it isnt). but, he says 'somebody else would have just accepted the way i was. would have made me feel less pathetic'
i want to know more about why betty ross would have belittled banner if he was the top scientist he was. plus the general had trust in him, didn't he?
and, how betty ross, if she feels guilty about it (which i am not sure she does - she seems too much of a cold-hearted cow to me) will try to 'make amends', to make good and help banner in the future? maybe her PR campaign will be to cover up for him even within SHIELD and associated groups?

oh, this may of course be old hat to you g33ks :oops:


This mini has to be made now! I want to see all of this explored...
 

roguefan

Well-Known Member
Maybe it could turn out that Fury let him go, and when it gets found out that Hulk is still around, everything blows up in his face. Firstly, Xavier calls for Fury to get the same treatment as he did when everyone found out that Magneto was still alive. Fury is acked from his job, and Cap. America takes his place. Secondly, Banner would go into deep depression, and, eventually go on another rampage. This time, he kills a member of some team (Fantastic Four, X-Men, Ultimates?), which causes the other members to go to try to track him down. Eventually, Hulk is brought down and executed.
At the end of the mini, someone would steal a sample of the Hulk serum (some masked villain, maybe Sinister?), so that Hulk can sometime be brought back to the Ultimate Universe.
What do you think?
 

Caduceus

The Original Muffins Man
Some of it I like, some I don't. Cap as head of SHIELD? No way. Doesn't fit the character and doesn't make sense plot wise. Why would Banner get depressed though? He's been depressed and it seems to me that his "execution" was enough to absolve him, depending on how he survived. I don't mind the execution idea but if anyone is to be the Hulk, it needs to be Banner. Don't want hulk brought back as someone else.
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
You know something. As I've said before I really loved the scene with Banner and Betty (you know the one that made us all cry) in issue #2 (right?) anyway. I thought the relationship was played out perfectly I could see myself as Banner and some women (one in particular) being Betty. Question is: What would Banner, as a man who is deeply in love with a women, do next? I think somewhere in the mini he's going to try to reach out to her no matter how much trouble he could get in. It's what I would do...
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
hmmm tell me what you think about this. I'll take some elements from my HULK 2 idea.

Banner is on the run/hideing. Struggling to keep the Hulk in check. He's only hulked out a couple of times but there are public whispers that Hulk is still out there. Betty Ross quits her PR job with The Ultimates and seeks out Banner. Banner is also keeping an eye on her. Betty obtains the help of a group of nerds with an internet site and some not so heavy equipment specificly for tracking down the Hulk. These are the Ultimate Hulkbusters. There's also rumors of Hulk somewhere else in the world (pick anywhere that fits contemporary politics) personally I think classicly keep him as Russian, otherwise make him Chinese. Anyway Banner hears these rumors too but figures if something else big and green is out there he'd better stay away and let it be his diversion. Problem is Betty thinks it may be Bruce so she goes to seek these new Hulk sightings. Banner follows Betty to destination B. Well you know the rest. New Hulk = Abomination, SHIELD is dispatched to check it out, Banner is dodging SHIELD while following Betty, Betty gets in trouble and comes face to face with Abomination, Hulk comes out of nowhere, cue kickass fight scene. and we go from there...

Other things I'd like to see...

Fury and Banner meet.
Thunderbolt Ross Vs. Fury
Banner's controlling the Hulk
some guest appearances by Hulk related characters...
SuperSoldier Serum and how it affected the Hulk.

EDIT: Forget Hulkbusters not being big machines, I like it better that way...
 
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ourchair

Well-Known Member
TheManWithoutFear said:
Betty obtains the help of a group of nerds with an internet site and some not so heavy equipment specificly for tracking down the Hulk. These are the Ultimate Hulkbusters.
I really like this, excellent thought. The idea of the Hulkbusters being characters who exist with little to no connection to the U.S. government makes me picture them as being more similar to the Lone Gunmen from The X-Files.

I think it'd be interesting for their activities to revolve around research on psychology, biology and aerobiology and other scientific fields in their attempts to synthesize techniques on how to induce a non-Hulk state or rpevent Banner from Hulking out without actually applying combative military tactics that involve Persons of Mass Destruction firing adamantium-tipped arrows.

The term Hulkbusters would thus hew closer to the "Ghostbusters" sense of the word: they apply completely proto-scientific knowledge in the search of untested means to subdue Banner-Hulk in the same way Egon Spengler made use of completely theoretic physics and nuclear science to subdue the "ectoplasmic manifestations" that are ghosts.

Basically the Hulkbusters would be functioning as a freelance think tank/consultancy group even though the characters are little more than armchair scientists possessing knowledge no more sophisticated than a well-versed sports fan's knowledge of football tactics.

I'd also like to see Ultimate Samuel Sterns be one of these Hulkbusters, who will later become the Leader, but that's something I haven't developed in my head yet.
 

compound

Well-Known Member
ourchair said:
Basically the Hulkbusters would be functioning as a freelance think tank/consultancy group even though the characters are little more than armchair scientists possessing knowledge no more sophisticated than a well-versed sports fan's knowledge of football tactics.
I wouldn't mind seeing the geeky version of Wesley 'Crusher' Creel that I envisioned as part of my take on Ultimate She-Hulk being part of this group.
 

Guijllons

Well-Known Member
I would like the Hulkbusters you have described, to be totally (at this point) unrelated to any government agency. And are just following rumours. Much like those crypto-zoology nuts who hang around for days trying to get a glimpse of the cornish owl man.

They suspect that the Hulk has survived, without rumours, just because they've studied the Hulk does Manhattan DVD over and over and over, and know what he is capable of. And probably have an internet forum full of geeks speculating over the fate of Banner and what he would do next... seems familiar.

But of course, they do hear a rumour. This is where the fun begins.
 

compound

Well-Known Member
at the risk of going off-topic... again...

Guijllons said:
Much like those crypto-zoology nuts who hang around for days trying to get a glimpse of the cornish owl man.
The Cornish Owl Man? Just Googled for that... I figure the whole urban legend/speculation idea might be a fun way to handle Ulimate Vulture, actually.

From The Field Guide To The Mystery Beasts Of Britain
This monster seems tied to the area round Mawnan church on the south Cornish coast. It is the size and shape of a man, covered in silvery-grey feathers with wings and crab-like black claws for feet, pointed ears, glowing red eyes and an owl-like face. It was first seen hovering over the church tower on 17 April 1976 by June Melling, then 12, and her sister Vicky, then nine.
This is Melling's drawing of the Owl Man:
MM_06.jpg


I know OurChair has some definite ideas about how to characterize Banner himself, in light of everything that's been discussed here, as well as Ultimate Hulk's various appearances. Share the love, bro!
 
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Guijllons

Well-Known Member
hehe, that's the chappie. There are a great many people very desperate for that to be real you know. I read something by this fellow once, saying that "of course there have not been many sightings, he's invisible most of the time". :| And this is probably one of the least respected of the cryptozoologists I'm sure.

But these guys certainly fit with that. Hell, the Ghostbusters were just researching the paranormal until a ghost came along and bit them on the metaphorical backside.

It's all certainly more interesting than large well organised operatives that go by generic codenames and no-one knows anyones identity or purpose. And certainly more fun than a giant robot.
(and damn, I love giant robots too)
 

Solaris

Well-Known Member
Guijllons said:
And probably have an internet forum full of geeks speculating over the fate of Banner and what he would do next... seems familiar.

OMG!!!!!!1!!
so, here we are. in the middle of the mini hulk series.
the recent tsunami was probably caused by the bomb that should have destroyed the hulk, and now he must be somwehere in the asiatic region. there are rumours of something big high up in the mountains near yoyakarta......

:roll: :oops:

sorry, i think i got carried away there
move along, nothing to see here
 

compound

Well-Known Member
once again, i'm off on a tangent

Guijllons said:
But these guys certainly fit with that. Hell, the Ghostbusters were just researching the paranormal until a ghost came along and bit them on the metaphorical backside.
This reminds me of the premise for a Ghostbusters/Men In Black cross-over that I dreamt up. The big idea is that some inexperienced Lovecraft wanna-be inadvertantly summons a Cthuloid-type being from another dimension. The sad bastard finds he can't control it, and ends up going nuts. When it starts wreaking havoc, the Government sends in the MIB, and private citizens call for the Ghostbusters.

The two groups meet and argue about whether or not the creature should be considered a ghost or alien, before agreeing to work together: MIB has technology that the Ghostbusters can't pay for. But the 'Busters can get away with strategies that would need federal clearance and bureaucratic red tape for the MIB.

You could easily apply a parallel of this private vs. public dichotomy in a story that involved both the Hulkbusters and SHIELD hunting down Banner, simultaneously.
 

Guijllons

Well-Known Member
Well this is just it isn't it, you have the Hulkbusters on one side, and SHIELD on the other.

Who you gonna call?


(damn, ouch, arg, that joke actually hurt to type)
 

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