IRON MAN 3 discussion (spoilers)

How would you rate Iron Man 3?


  • Total voters
    14
You know what else annoyed me about this movie. The generic henchmen. So every military man/woman who loses a limb goes bat-**** crazy and turns evil? There was no indication the extremis drug would somehow mind control them. Wouldn't Pepper turn at the end?

THANK YOU! The evil generic fiery regenerating soldiers were the worst part of this movie for me. The whole AIM/Ten Rings organization was just not well thought through. Make them ten rings terrorists that have signed on with AIM and Killian for more power, or make them maniacal AIM scientists who have volunteered to be experimented on. Convince me that Killian's scheme makes sense and that he actually is a threat. Show me that it's awesome that he's really the man behind the curtain. That's what I needed in order to really like this movie, not just a joke and a bunch of poorly explained exploding henchmen.
 
I didn't plan it...

By virtue (and definition) of being the Nexus, you must have, even indirectly. I can envision you sneaking into your friends' houses at night while they're asleep, and whispering hypnotic suggestions in their ears. Or even more terrifying just using the power of telepathy. My God, you're like a Professor X who can dance!
 
I have a question that they may have answered in the movie and I just missed it, but why did Hogan live when everyone around him was seemingly eviscerated?

He conveniently fell behind a hotdog stand.

This was pretty great. I'm disappointed you liked the Mandarin twist but you hit on a lot of things that bothered me. I wouldn't rate it as low but I definitely feel embarrassed I gave it 4/5 stars now.

I think the Mandarin twist was my favorite part...easily. It had that reminiscence of Riggs and Murtaugh from Lethal Weapon.


All of your opinions are bad and you should feel bad.

Alright, I'm officially a forum regular again.

I know a lot of people in the armed forces that fight that stereotype. I know what you're saying but this is exactly the reason why this part in the movie annoyed me. It's a liberal generalization that everyone who gets injured gets mistreated by the Government and military. And the movie is pretty much saying that you're more of a hero for being a wealthy above average genius with a suit than once protecting your country as an average person. I actually know someone who got royally screwed after he was medically discharged and really hates the government and military now. But he's not going to sign up for team evil.

It's like ten people, hand-picked from around the country, to enlist in a program they were told would help them with their disabilities. If anything, I felt more empathy towards their condition because they were manipulated due to their disability, for Science(it's evil). But who's to say these guys weren't already villainous ****s whose actions led to their horrible disfigurations in the first place?

Also, I work with many, many people who've done years in the military. Some with disabilities they carried with them: bad back problems, facial scarring, knee issues to name a few. And it sucks to hear them talk about getting an appointment with VA. It's like dealing with Workman's Comp, if you've ever had the misfortune. So yeah, I could believe how these vets would turn to a program like Extremis; no waiting, no run around, the promise of immediate results. And with the soldier mentality, comes loyalty. So maybe they felt loyal to the cause. They get to be soldiers again, like joining a PMC after leaving the armed forces. And who's to say they ever wanted to stop being one?
 
Coming late to the party... Just saw it, and though it was good, but not great.
I get that the middle part of the movie was supposed to show us 'the man without the armor', but I found its execution a little boring. I also thought the 'Power Pepper' was a little cheesey.
This movie was in the shadow of Avengers, so taken on its own, it might have seemed better... BUT everyone, including Marvel knew what movie it was following.
 
By virtue (and definition) of being the Nexus, you must have, even indirectly. I can envision you sneaking into your friends' houses at night while they're asleep, and whispering hypnotic suggestions in their ears. Or even more terrifying just using the power of telepathy. My God, you're like a Professor X who can dance!

... I have long hair and have terrible coordination. So... it's clear you have no idea who I am.

But at least you, correctly, imagine me as awesome.

It's like ten people, hand-picked from around the country, to enlist in a program they were told would help them with their disabilities. If anything, I felt more empathy towards their condition because they were manipulated due to their disability, for Science(it's evil). But who's to say these guys weren't already villainous ****s whose actions led to their horrible disfigurations in the first place?

Also, I work with many, many people who've done years in the military. Some with disabilities they carried with them: bad back problems, facial scarring, knee issues to name a few. And it sucks to hear them talk about getting an appointment with VA. It's like dealing with Workman's Comp, if you've ever had the misfortune. So yeah, I could believe how these vets would turn to a program like Extremis; no waiting, no run around, the promise of immediate results. And with the soldier mentality, comes loyalty. So maybe they felt loyal to the cause. They get to be soldiers again, like joining a PMC after leaving the armed forces. And who's to say they ever wanted to stop being one?

Very nice. I like that.
 
Sometimes they're not great, but I love the whole "superhero diner" thing they keep getting back to.
 
Sometimes they're not great, but I love the whole "superhero diner" thing they keep getting back to.

that's a fair assessment. I find them funny more often than not, but there are some that aren't very good. And the diner is awesome. My favourite one is "Bros Before Marios"
 
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Finally saw this.

It might be my favorite superhero movie. The pacing was great. Pure action movie from start to finish. Clever, funny, witty, with smart use of the Iron Man tech that smoothly escalated through the course of the film.

As for the main criticisms of it, I was fine with the Mandarin reveal. Even going in to the movie knowing the Mandarin was going to be revealed as an actor, Kingsley flat killed it.

And the lack of SHIELD and other superheroes was just right. The heavy-handed crossover of IM2 which dominated the second act really brought down what was otherwise a fine movie. As it stands, the fallout from Avengers was deftly handled without stomping all over the stand-alone integrity of this movie. The world is on the cusp of first contact with gods, aliens, and monsters, and Tony's anxiety regarding that heavily informed his characterization in this movie. He's living in a world that's scared of when the monsters are coming back. He's ruining his personal relationship with Pepper, creating an army of robots in preparation of that unknowable threat. And I at least got the impression that he's got little to no respect for SHIELD. The whole movie was about him coming to terms with the the trauma of Avengers, hiding behind an iron shell, building an army of machines to keep his girlfriend safe while that relationship crumbles around him, and ultimately coming to terms with the fact that he doesn't need to hide behind the armor, because he's not a knight. He's a mechanic. And his super power isn't his suit of armor, it's his brain. Even without his armor, he can face any obstacle in front of him with a credit card and a trip to Home Depot.

It speaks to me of an impressive growth in the cross-universe storytelling at Marvel Studios. Phase one was dominated by a pretty heavy-handed feeling of continuity, from SHIELD's heavy presence in the lead-in movies to those hammy but fan-pleasing post-credit sequences. This is far more elegant. It starts with a man broken by the trauma of being on the frontlines of the world's first battle with the extraterrestrial, caught in a cycle of PTSD, an insomniac hermit too caught up in the comfort of building to even think about what it is he's building. It ends with a brilliant inventor confident in himself rather than hiding behind the identity he's created. It sets up the potential conflict of the next movie with a technology of networked robot-soldier drones ready to be (supposition to follow) hijacked by SHIELD to create a threat they can't control. It sets Tony Stark up as a fully-matured character for Avengers 2, the confident engineer equipped to strategize a solution to the problems looming on the horizon. It honestly may be the strongest example of character development yet seen in the Marvel movies. It just wears that development with subtlety.

I hope Cap and Thor show a similar evolution. I have no clue where they'll go with Thor, but the information out now seems to suggest Winter Soldier is going in the right direction: a movie about a good soldier grappling with a bloated and corrupted military-industrial complex, a well-intentioned institution that suffers from decay within and ill-equipped to actually deal with the problems of the future and how that soldier comes to terms with how to align his values within that complex. I'm looking forward to it. I'm hopeful. IM3 seems to suggest that the films are developing well past the growing pains of the superhero sub-genre.

Finally, with Downey signing a two film contract, and with them preparing a slate of new characters for Phase Three, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last solo film we see with Downey. They want to insure his involvement in both Avengers movies, which the contract will cover. And artistically, it makes sense. The end of this movie nicely wraps a bow on the idea of Stark as a solo superhero. My guess is we'll see him in the Avengers movies as a financier and strategic advisor who just dons the suit in instances of full-blown global threat. Then, as A3 is rounding the bend and they're looking at the future of their franchises, they'll be gearing up for a replacement actor.
 
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ManWithoutFear said:
You mean MOST were evil co-conspirators.

Most of the ones we saw were evil co-conspirators, because that's who was left. The movie was about Iron Man fighting AIM, so of course the ones who got the screen time were the ones who had already signed up for Team Evil. By the time the movie begins, the subjects of the experiment had already been whittled down to AIM's crack team of lunatics. Those who were just poor unfortunate subjects had already been conveniently disposed of. But we did get two characters who were clearly just victims of the Extremis project. It's not like they weren't represented.

And it's possible there are more out there. I'm personally inclined to believe Killian would have disposed of any loose ends who didn't sign up for his little murder corps. But it's a distinct possibility that there are well-adjusted soldiers who survived the therapy and are now just living their lives, unaware that they might be ticking time bombs. It could be a potential hook for future Iron Man films or (more likely) the SHIELD series. But we didn't see them because, why would we? They're just out there living their lives. They aren't involved in the conflict.

If you read between the lines, you can certainly find a rationale behind it as well. It seems likely to me that when dude first started his experimentation, he indiscriminately took his test subjects from the pool of available disabled vets. He needed lab rats, pure and simple, and most of them died right away. But once he saw the potential to build his own little private army, he started screening more carefully, for those with psychological profiles that would fit the needs of his private army. i.e. he began screening for psychopaths after the project evolved from a research project into a terror cell building enterprise. It might have been nice to see that more clearly alluded to, but there you have it. An easy solution that doesn't require any great jumps of logic.

Either way, I didn't walk away from it with the impression that Shane Black thinks soldiers are evil lunatics. I just get the impression he already had a lot of moving parts, and didn't have the time to explain every minute detail.
 
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Finally saw this.

It might be my favorite superhero movie. The pacing was great. Pure action movie from start to finish. Clever, funny, witty, with smart use of the Iron Man tech that smoothly escalated through the course of the film.

As for the main criticisms of it, I was fine with the Mandarin reveal. Even going in to the movie knowing the Mandarin was going to be revealed as an actor, Kingsley flat killed it.

And the lack of SHIELD and other superheroes was just right. The heavy-handed crossover of IM2 which dominated the second act really brought down what was otherwise a fine movie. As it stands, the fallout from Avengers was deftly handled without stomping all over the stand-alone integrity of this movie. The world is on the cusp of first contact with gods, aliens, and monsters, and Tony's anxiety regarding that heavily informed his characterization in this movie. He's living in a world that's scared of when the monsters are coming back. He's ruining his personal relationship with Pepper, creating an army of robots in preparation of that unknowable threat. And I at least got the impression that he's got little to no respect for SHIELD. The whole movie was about him coming to terms with the the trauma of Avengers, hiding behind an iron shell, building an army of machines to keep his girlfriend safe while that relationship crumbles around him, and ultimately coming to terms with the fact that he doesn't need to hide behind the armor, because he's not a knight. He's a mechanic. And his super power isn't his suit of armor, it's his brain. Even without his armor, he can face any obstacle in front of him with a credit card and a trip to Home Depot.

It speaks to me of an impressive growth in the cross-universe storytelling at Marvel Studios. Phase one was dominated by a pretty heavy-handed feeling of continuity, from SHIELD's heavy presence in the lead-in movies to those hammy but fan-pleasing post-credit sequences. This is far more elegant. It starts with a man broken by the trauma of being on the frontlines of the world's first battle with the extraterrestrial, caught in a cycle of PTSD, an insomniac hermit too caught up in the comfort of building to even think about what it is he's building. It ends with a brilliant inventor confident in himself rather than hiding behind the identity he's created. It sets up the potential conflict of the next movie with a technology of networked robot-soldier drones ready to be (supposition to follow) hijacked by SHIELD to create a threat they can't control. It sets Tony Stark up as a fully-matured character for Avengers 2, the confident engineer equipped to strategize a solution to the problems looming on the horizon. It honestly may be the strongest example of character development yet seen in the Marvel movies. It just wears that development with subtlety.

I hope Cap and Thor show a similar evolution. I have no clue where they'll go with Thor, but the information out now seems to suggest Winter Soldier is going in the right direction: a movie about a good soldier grappling with a bloated and corrupted military-industrial complex, a well-intentioned institution that suffers from decay within and ill-equipped to actually deal with the problems of the future and how that soldier comes to terms with how to align his values within that complex. I'm looking forward to it. I'm hopeful. IM3 seems to suggest that the films are developing well past the growing pains of the superhero sub-genre.

Finally, with Downey signing a two film contract, and with them preparing a slate of new characters for Phase Three, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last solo film we see with Downey. They want to insure his involvement in both Avengers movies, which the contract will cover. And artistically, it makes sense. The end of this movie nicely wraps a bow on the idea of Stark as a solo superhero. My guess is we'll see him in the Avengers movies as a financier and strategic advisor who just dons the suit in instances of full-blown global threat. Then, as A3 is rounding the bend and they're looking at the future of their franchises, they'll be gearing up for a replacement actor.

I didn't like Iron Man 3, but I agree with everything you just said. Which makes me think about the arguments that have been made about the Amazing Spider-Man and the Wolverine. I really liked the hearts of all three movies. I thought the characterization of the heroes and the exploration of their motivations worked really well in all three movies. I laughed in all of them, I enjoyed the action in all of them, and I thought the climax/villain of all three movies was lacklustre or disappointing. But I loved Amazing Spider-Man, I really liked Wolverine, and I was super disappointed with Iron Man 3 and liked it less than all of the other Avengers franchise movies.

I think maybe I'm more invested in Spider-Man and Wolverine than I am in Iron Man. I care about who they are as characters and want that to be the core of the movie. I didn't care about Iron Man at all until the movies came out, so when 3 delves into his character and personal struggles, I didn't respond with "Yeah! They really get him!" but rather, "Huh, that's cool. I hope the Mandarin fight is awesome." I didn't buy Killian and his army of exploding soldiers as a credible threat. The whole thing seemed silly to me.

But that said, it wasn't as silly as mecha-Samurai or creepy snake lady in Wolverine (not to mention the stupid twist at the end). But I was so enthralled with the characterization of Wolverine and his chemistry with Mariko that the silliness didn't ruin the movie for me.

And Lizard wasn't a great villain, nor was his master plan to turn all of New York into lizards a very gripping climax, but that wasn't the story. Peter and Gwen was the story and they nailed that. The Lizard was just a vehicle to explore Peter's responsibility and screw up his life a little more. Honestly, I have a few little problems with the movie (disappearing webbing being one of them) but over all, as a life-long Spidey fan, I thought Amazing Spider-Man was a near-perfect Spidey origin.

All that to say, I understand why you like the movie now, and have a better understanding of why I do and don't like certain movies. So thanks, ZP.
 
I think the fact I enjoyed Amazing Spiderman Wolverine when I saw them were they came after terrible movies so my exceptions were lower.

I said that the PTSD stuff was a stroke of brilliance but I felt like it was forgotten about by the end of the film.
 
The PTSD resolution is when he takes on the Mandarin without the suit. It's a sub-plot, like the illness in SPIDER-MAN 2. I agree they could have made it be more relevant in the climax. It could have been a nice turn if he had a panic attack after the mark 42 fell to pieces.
 
So I watched this again for the third time (I think... maybe the fourth.) And I've come around on it. I still think the army of exploding people was sort of dumb and Pepper getting powers shouldn't have happened. But the motivations of Killian were actually laid out really well and it was a pretty ingenious idea. He would pull the strings of the US government and of the worlds most notorious "terrorist" and just make money in the shadows on weapons contracts. The way they explored Tony was really well done (I think I admitted back when I first saw it).

So yeah, still not my favourite of the Avengers franchise (at least Cap 2, Avengers, and Iron Man 1 beat it) but I like it.
 

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