Just finish up this (real life) year. That's all I ask. Echo won't be completely aired before 2024. Maybe they already have taken things that will have been released before/ near the book release into account?
Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline (Part 2)
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selfishmisery
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Tone, Disney+ and "3 years after real time" are the main reasons I avoid when I'm putting this in my personal time tbh.
As someone who has worked on Arrow, DC and Marvel Animation timelines, tone change especially doesn't mean much in a shared universe.
So I strongly agree with this ideology.
Well why do you put it in 2025 cause outside a 30 years the Skrulls have been on Earth comment there's really nothing to base it on
I think that and the belief The Marvels is shortly after Ms. Marvel has a lot to do with those who believe it's 2025.
You're right that those don't mean much but nothing within the series really means much for what year it is. That's why I think we should go with a default placement and whether to like it or not right now in the MCU based on Disney+ placement and the general advancement of the MCU's time that seems to be 2026. If there's something that actually supports a year I'm all for it but since there real isn't anything I think that's the placeholder at the very least.
selfishmisery
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Decades can always be rounded up.
For example, in the Gotham episode "Nothing's Shocking" (set firmly before the final year the show takes place pre-time jump - 1991) they refer to Jane's dad getting shot "20 years ago". The date we see for that is 1972. 19 years can round to 20.
I feel like we're really reaching here with assuming based on vague, assumed or even not-always-accurate info; as someone who has had a longer experience with timelines than a lot of you.
You're right decades can be rounded like how an event that happened in 1995, 31 years before, in 2026 can be rounded to 30.
I feel like there's nothing to reach for. Again why do you think it's 2025? You've said there's nothing really to support 2026, I agree but I put it there because there's nothing to support 2025 either. Do you have a reason?
selfishmisery
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Also, you're still basing it on out-of-universe info that's not always been correct. Soooo yeah.
selfishmisery
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Ms Marvel's final scene and that show is firmly set in 2025.
This show is Secret Invasion not Ms. Marvel and nothing within the post credit scene with Captain Marvel firmly says it's right after the show or 2025 unless I'm mistaken. This isn't the first time we've had a post credit that's part of another movie and jumps ahead, look at Ant-Man
selfishmisery
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selfishmisery
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BTW at least they said this is based on their personal timeline.
Yes I understand that the Ms. Marvel show takes place in 2025. But absolutely nothing says the post-credit scene does and that's the only thing relevant. Especially since we now know that scene is in The Marvels there's nothing that says that has to be 2025, I'd be surprised if it was even filmed as part of Ms. Marvel. Ant-Man happens in 2015, we moving Civil War there now too?
selfishmisery
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There's no "One Year Later" or anything to distinguish Ms. Marvel's post credit scene from another work outside of it besides later info that clarifies this is included in The Marvels. It's filmed and written like something that totally fits within the show. However in Ant-Man's Civil War scene there is a clear time jump by the out-of-context and vastly different scene they chose in relation to Ant-Man (the movie). It's narratively different for a clear time-jump related reason.
This is the issue I have right now with discussing timeline stuff TBH. We're both deadset on different years. But I'm perfectly willing to wait and see but the other side it's like "2026 or bust". I think if we change its placement entirely right now and then The Marvels comes out and Kamala says "Oh I learned I was a mutant a few weeks ago" - then we're basically undoing a recent mistake. Extra work for nothing other than confusing people's viewing order inbetween the waiting time.
Constantly rearranging is what I try to avoid and even if it's wrong in the first place, at least it's only one change instead of two when the answer is finally given.
If only because the reasons we base this on right now aren't founded in truth and more-so assumption a lot of the time, and leaving it as is creates less headaches.
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I'm not "deadset" like I said 2026 is my default placement. I'm fine with either one cause it doesn't make a huge difference either way, I just think that we need a placeholder and making that placeholder based on a post-credit scene, particularly one that's just a scene from an unreleased film, to be more unreliable than following a default placement. Either case has a chance of rearranging and we have to be open to rearranging with a franchise like the MCU, trying to avoid it is unnecessary when a fair amount of projects placements come from other installments after their release. An assumption for Secret Invasion's placement was made based on a post-credit scene (arguably the scenes easiest to place inaccurately). If litterally anything suggested that scene happened mere months after Ms. Marvel I'd be with you but everything that has 2025 is an assumption, everything for 2026 is just what we have from out of universe sources. Both easily overridden later but until later I find actual out of universe sources to be the way to go over just assuming The Marvels is 2025 cause it had a scene as Ms. Marvel's post-credit scene and I'm sorry but saying that scene is "firmly" 2025 is very laughable. It's a barely educated guess at best
I'm not "deadset" against 2025 either if we did get more evidence, but at the moment I feel like Secret Invasion works better in 2026. The Marvels is releasing over a year after Ms. Marvel and I don't see why it would be hard to believe that the in-universe passage of time is similar.
selfishmisery
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Let's agree to disagree then entirely.
But let's be clear: None of us are correct. We're both giving our side and our opinion towards the matter. So I would suggest not adding the dogmatic "But my way seems to more objective than your's based on-" because all that does is get this conversation heated.
selfishmisery
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I'm guilty of this too btw. I'm throwing this out there as just something for me to avoid as well.
Again, this is why I try to avoid discussions because past personal experiences haven't been kind. (I've gotten doxxed by someone in the past for a similar, civilized discussion regarding comic book stuff. They literally went after me and a family member.) Ultimately a habit I'm not prepared for emotionally and I'll probably just keep it to myself.
Hopefully, The Marvels is able to clear everything up. I know the Disney + timeline isn't perfect, but to place Secret Invasion and therefore The Marvels after the Guardians Holiday Special, Vol 3., and Quantumania if there was such a short time in between the three projects would be a major blunder.
Hey, there is some rule about flashbacks needing to be more than 3 seconds long to be included in the timeline? Because I have noticed that some very 1-2 second long flashbacks in Iron Man 3 are missing and there are also very brief flashbacks to Zola experimentation with Bucky in Winter Soldier that are missing.
Timestamps?
I will check later
fuzzyfoot
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This is part of the reason why I go by what is actually in the movie/show first before everything else. Right or wrong, it is what we are presented with as viewers. Consider the 'before times' when we had nothing like D+, and we had to pick them clean with a fine tooth comb.
To that end, I also tend to use other parts of the MCU as a reasoning to justify or cast doubt on opinions that sometimes come across here. Take the post credits of Ms. Marvel for example. The suggestion that Marvels and Ms Marvel happen close together because of that scene can only really be inferred by say Coulson finding the hammer in Iron Man 2, or Bucky regaining his mind at the end of Ant-Man. Then again, you also have the original Captain Marvel film with a post credits scene happening 23 years later, or Yelena visiting a grave AT LEAST 7 years after the Black Widow film. Or WV with a post credits that could have occurred up to a year later. So the post credits to me is always up in the air until we get the answer to its call, if that makes sense.
But back to 2025/2026. Civil War is probably one of the best films to establish dates in the MCU because it covers so damn many of them with exact numbers. "in the 8 years since Mr Stark announced himself as Iron Man", is one such example. That logic is partly why I think Eternals is 2023 and not 2024 because Ajak says "5 Years" when referring to the snap. I know there is other evidence, I'm simply drawing a line of logic here.
Truth is, we won't know 100% until Marvels comes out and hopefully gives us some more definitive information. If not...then we have to hope the book does.
Preview pages confirm Iron Man begins in Early 2008 and "I Am Iron Man" is Spring of 2008. It also shows a timeline for Hulk placing the fight with Abomination and therefore Fury's Big Week in 2010. There are also pages for Age of Ultron confirming Spring 2015. So far, the only divergence from here is Fury's Big Week.
fuzzyfoot
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Found the pages you were referring to, and an interesting note in there is that the HULK spread at least covers through the end of She-Hulk as it mentions Hulk finds Skaar. But that same paragraph essentially places the show 2024-2025, including the accident. Hopefully it explores that show in greater detail in the book but we have She-Hulk occurring entirely in 2025.
Also I am happy to see its a 344 page book.
I think the accident may be considered in 2024 and even then it'd be towards the end of the year. It'll be interesting to see how detailed the book gets. Stuff like Age of Ultron being just Spring I get, But I feel like they can easily place TBONY on May 4th, 2012 given all the evidence. I'm also hoping they break Fury's Big Week down by the day.
For Iron Man 3:
(1:21:10-1:21:20) Has Killigan having his big idea in January 1st 2000
(1:56:18-1:56:22) is the morning of January 1 (I think, I am not sure about it)
(1:56:22-1:56:26) is another Killigan in the roof moment
For Winter Soldier:
(1:27:23-1:27:25) has Zola saying "Sergeant Barnes" in a forest (I think is supposed to be him finding Bucky after he falls? But he was arrested after the train scene, so Bucky should have been lying in the snow for long if that has to be the case)
(1:27:30-1:27:46) has different moments from Bucky to Winter Soldier transformation
(1:27:23-1:27:25) has Zola saying "Sergeant Barnes" in a forest (I think is supposed to be him finding Bucky after he falls? But he was arrested after the train scene, so Bucky should have been lying in the snow for long if that has to be the case)
(1:27:30-1:27:46) has different moments from Bucky to Winter Soldier transformation
fuzzyfoot
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Same, though it won't change HOW I watch that part of the MCU, I am really curious how they will lay Iron Man 2, Thor, and TIH out for us.
