The Amazing Spider-Man (Spoilery discussion)

How would you rate The Amazing Spider-Man?


  • Total voters
    16
I don't really understand this argument. What does he need to be to classify as a "nerd"? Should he wear a bow tie and sweater vest like he did in the 60s? Does he not count as a nerd b/c he skateboards? He's incredibly smart and has no friends. That captures the essence of his nerdy side as it is portrayed in the comics.

Peter is the "Everyman". He's the underdog. That's what makes him identifiable. They just updated that to be current. He struggles with life and holds it all in. When he gets a chance to get back at the guy who beat him up, he takes it b/c who wouldn't? And yeah, he is selfish and kind of a jerk. But his character arc is about him growing as a person past that and using his power responsibly to help people and not just to lash out at those who hurt him.

The characterization and relationships are what they got right in this movie. Plot... not so much. But I'll take it.

Until Ultimate Spider-Man, Peter has never been an "Everyman". He was a need and a guy you felt bad for because he had it worse than you (not you specifically).

The bow tie and sweater vest were symbol of the times he was in. It is barely different than drawing a black guy with an Afro and baggy pants. It's a visual tool that means nothing to the character.

Andrew Garfield Peter did not strike me as the need who gets picked on that you feel sorry for. He was a guy you might root for, but because of his attitude it wasn't a given like Peter has always been.
 
I guess we just disagree then. As I see it, Peter Parker IS the everyman. That's what his character has always been about. In an time when superheroes were larger than life adults with no problems, Peter was the teenager who couldn't get a date, got picked on at school, and didn't always do what was right (I'm talking about pre-uncle Ben's death. He wanted to use his power to become famous and rich and didn't care to stop the burglar).

His whole thing that he was relatable.
 
I typed up a lon response to robje, but it got ate up, so I'll be briefer this time.

re: not recognizing Curt is the Lizard, I didn't get that impression at all, and it certainly didn't take him 2/3 of the movie. He went to see Conners immediately after the encounter on the bridge. As I recall, it was the very next scene. I got the impression that he suspected Conners had something to do with it and that conversation was intended to suss out the details. Was it Conners or someone who hijacked Conners' research? Was it intentional or accidental? Did he feel remorse? Would he confess? Before he went to the cops, he wanted to give this guy who was his dad's partner the benefit of the doubt, and him seeing the rat wasn't the revelation that Conners was the Lizard. It just went to underscore the horror of what Pete was facing.

re: the lizard bomb. Yes, because two hours of giant dinosaur-men rampaging through the streets of New York driven by the primitive reptilian cores of their brain would have just been another day in New York. No big deal. Just change them back, because we know Conners hasn't altered the formula to be permanent. We know there aren't any long term effects of the formula because we've seen the circumstances of one test subject over a very brief period of time, and there's a large sample of synthesized antidote that can be dispersed over the population before the monsters can cause any damage or go to ground.

Yep. Just unleash that biological agent over the city. It'll be alright. No tension there.

re: Pete being kind of a dick. Well, yeah. He's a high school kid. The whole idea is that he makes mistakes and he learns from them. The bit at the end isn't him waiting for her to get over her drama. It's him realizing "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it people like me, and I shouldn't punish myself for a promise made under duress". And he's going to suffer for it. Clearly. It's Gwen Stacy, dude. She's going to die.

re: The chocolate milk. I would have done the same thing. That guy was a dick. I would have been like "Yeah, well, you get what you deserve". And honestly, that tough **** mentality leading to Uncle Ben's death has been part of the character's origin since the start. If you don't like it, blame Lee and Ditko.

re: Flash. Really? Didn't he beat the **** out of Pete and some other kid for no real reason at the beginning of the movie and break Pete's camera? I don't recall Pete returning the favor, despite the fact that he got super powers. I just remember him teasing the guy with a basketball.



I agree with Cap, btw. He is the everyman. There's a reason Spidey is popular beyond just comic book geeks. It's because he's the middle of the road guy. His job sucks, his love life is hit or miss, he's not the strongest guy or the coolest guy or even the smartest guy but he perserveres and ultimately people like him because there's something there that pretty much anyone can relate to. He's the guy who makes mistakes and learns from them. Which is why it's perfectly okay for him to get these powers and antagonize the bullies who treated him poorly, and assault the thugs of the city on a revenge kick and talk back to his girlfriend's dad and make mistakes with the first love of his life. Because he's a kid and he's still in the process of becoming a hero.

There was a little bit too much of the whole "rude dude with 'tude" thing for me, but that's just personal preference. All in all, I was alright with the characterization. He was a whole hell of a lot more interesting than Toby's white bread ass.

And the crane scene certainly wasn't as bad as the similar "OMG NEW YORK LOVES SPIDEY!!!!!" scenes in the Raimi movies.

Incidentally, I thought Emma Stone as Gwen was the best part of the movie and the two of them generally did a great job playing out the teenage awkwardness. The Gwen/Peter scenes were definitely the strongest part of the whole movie.
 
Last edited:
I typed up a lon response to robje, but it got ate up, so I'll be briefer this time.

re: not recognizing Curt is the Lizard, I didn't get that impression at all, and it certainly didn't take him 2/3 of the movie. He went to see Conners immediately after the encounter on the bridge. As I recall, it was the very next scene. I got the impression that he suspected Conners had something to do with it and that conversation was intended to suss out the details. Was it Conners or someone who hijacked Conners' research? Was it intentional or accidental? Did he feel remorse? Would he confess? Before he went to the cops, he wanted to give this guy who was his dad's partner the benefit of the doubt, and him seeing the rat wasn't the revelation that Conners was the Lizard. It just went to underscore the horror of what Pete was facing.

re: the lizard bomb. Yes, because two hours of giant dinosaur-men rampaging through the streets of New York driven by the primitive reptilian cores of their brain would have just been another day in New York. No big deal. Just change them back, because we know Conners hasn't altered the formula to be permanent. We know there aren't any long term effects of the formula because we've seen the circumstances of one test subject over a very brief period of time, and there's a large sample of synthesized antidote that can be dispersed over the population before the monsters can cause any damage or go to ground.

Yep. Just unleash that biological agent over the city. It'll be alright. No tension there.

re: Pete being kind of a dick. Well, yeah. He's a high school kid. The whole idea is that he makes mistakes and he learns from them. The bit at the end isn't him waiting for her to get over her drama. It's him realizing "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it people like me, and I shouldn't punish myself for a promise made under duress". And he's going to suffer for it. Clearly. It's Gwen Stacy, dude. She's going to die.

re: The chocolate milk. I would have done the same thing. That guy was a dick. I would have been like "Yeah, well, you get what you deserve". And honestly, that tough **** mentality leading to Uncle Ben's death has been part of the character's origin since the start. If you don't like it, blame Lee and Ditko.

re: Flash. Really? Didn't he beat the **** out of Pete and some other kid for no real reason at the beginning of the movie and break Pete's camera? I don't recall Pete returning the favor, despite the fact that he got super powers. I just remember him teasing the guy with a basketball.



I agree with Cap, btw. He is the everyman. There's a reason Spidey is popular beyond just comic book geeks. It's because he's the middle of the road guy. His job sucks, his love life is hit or miss, he's not the strongest guy or the coolest guy or even the smartest guy but he perserveres and ultimately people like him because there's something there that pretty much anyone can relate to. He's the guy who makes mistakes and learns from them. Which is why it's perfectly okay for him to get these powers and antagonize the bullies who treated him poorly, and assault the thugs of the city on a revenge kick and talk back to his girlfriend's dad and make mistakes with the first love of his life. Because he's a kid and he's still in the process of becoming a hero.

There was a little bit too much of the whole "rude dude with 'tude" thing for me, but that's just personal preference. All in all, I was alright with the characterization. He was a whole hell of a lot more interesting than Toby's white bread ass.

And the crane scene certainly wasn't as bad as the similar "OMG NEW YORK LOVES SPIDEY!!!!!" scenes in the Raimi movies.

Incidentally, I thought Emma Stone as Gwen was the best part of the movie and the two of them generally did a great job playing out the teenage awkwardness. The Gwen/Peter scenes were definitely the strongest part of the whole movie.

This. ABSOLUTELY this.
 
And the crane scene certainly wasn't as bad as the similar "OMG NEW YORK LOVES SPIDEY!!!!!" scenes in the Raimi movies.

I really hate comparisons like these. Something else is crap so that makes this not crap?
 
I really hate comparisons like these. Something else is crap so that makes this not crap?

Uh.... No?

It was crap but it wasn't as crap as the similar scenes in the main point of comparison we have for these movies?

We'd be better off without it but it could have been worse?

The way the character is portrayed in film has grown but it's still got its clumsy spots?

Everything is terrible and I should yell about it in poorly phrased English?

jump-to-conclusions-mat.jpg
 
I'm printing "Robje was right" t-shirts. I especially like the number of times he mentions chocolate milk.
 
How is that any different from not stopping the guy who robbed the wrestling arena?

Because he doesn't gain anything by not stopping the guy. He just averts his eyes and pretends it has nothing to do with him, which at that point is kinda the case. By accepting the chocolate milk he becomes an accomplice to the crime. It is one thing to not do anything when a crime happens, but something completely different to gain something out of it. The first case is just Karma; the mean wrestling arena guy gets robbed. Well, he was a mean guy, so he had it coming. The second case makes peter part of the crime. If the the thief had bribed a police-officer to let him go after he got caught we wouldn't feel a lot of sympathy toward the police-officer either.

I forgot to rant about some scenes! Like the one where peter spins a web in the sewers to be able to sense the lizard before he attacks. Except that he doesn't cover 2 VERY, VERY large manholes and then positions himself in a way that he can not see an attack coming from there. Was there anyone that didn't see the attack coming from either above or below him? How the hell did he manage to forget to cover the f*cking hole he came from himself!?!?

Or how about trying to coax the kid to climb out of the car that is on fire instead of rewebbing it. Just let go en reweb the car, you stupid idiot. I almost threw my chocolate milk at the screen during that scene.
 
Last edited:
Because he doesn't gain anything by not stopping the guy. He just averts his eyes and pretends it has nothing to do with him, which at that point is kinda the case. By accepting the chocolate milk he becomes an accomplice to the crime. It is one thing to not do anything when a crime happens, but something completely different to gain something out of it. The first case is just Karma; the mean wrestling arena guy gets robbed. Well, he was a mean guy, so he had it coming. The second case makes peter part of the crime. If the the thief had bribed a police-officer to let him go after he got caught we wouldn't feel a lot of sympathy toward the police-officer either.

I forgot to rant about some scenes! Like the one where peter spins a web in the sewers to be able to sense the lizard before he attacks. Except that he doesn't cover 2 VERY, VERY large manholes and then positions himself in a way that he can not see an attack coming from there. Was there anyone that didn't see the attack coming from either above or below him? How the hell did he manage to forget to cover the f*cking whole he came from himself!?!?

Or how about trying to coax the kid to climb out of the car that is on fire instead of rewebbing it. Just let go en reweb the car, you stupid idiot. I almost threw my chocolate milk at the screen during that scene.

Chocolate. Milk.
 
I typed up a lon response to robje, but it got ate up, so I'll be briefer this time.

re: not recognizing Curt is the Lizard, I didn't get that impression at all, and it certainly didn't take him 2/3 of the movie. He went to see Conners immediately after the encounter on the bridge. As I recall, it was the very next scene. I got the impression that he suspected Conners had something to do with it and that conversation was intended to suss out the details. Was it Conners or someone who hijacked Conners' research? Was it intentional or accidental? Did he feel remorse? Would he confess? Before he went to the cops, he wanted to give this guy who was his dad's partner the benefit of the doubt, and him seeing the rat wasn't the revelation that Conners was the Lizard. It just went to underscore the horror of what Pete was facing.

Half his face was covered in scales!! Every single thing he said was a VERY thinly veiled threat. Peter should have at LEAST followed him after he ran out of the room.

re: the lizard bomb. Yes, because two hours of giant dinosaur-men rampaging through the streets of New York driven by the primitive reptilian cores of their brain would have just been another day in New York. No big deal. Just change them back, because we know Conners hasn't altered the formula to be permanent. We know there aren't any long term effects of the formula because we've seen the circumstances of one test subject over a very brief period of time, and there's a large sample of synthesized antidote that can be dispersed over the population before the monsters can cause any damage or go to ground.

Yep. Just unleash that biological agent over the city. It'll be alright. No tension there.

The police officers that got turned into lizards suffered no consequences as far as we can tell and they didn't go on a rampage either. The story established pretty solidly that there was no tension with the ****ing bomb. Just because there is a timer running doesn't mean that there is a threat.

re: Pete being kind of a dick. Well, yeah. He's a high school kid. The whole idea is that he makes mistakes and he learns from them. The bit at the end isn't him waiting for her to get over her drama. It's him realizing "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it people like me, and I shouldn't punish myself for a promise made under duress". And he's going to suffer for it. Clearly. It's Gwen Stacy, dude. She's going to die.

Making mistakes is different from being an *sshole. At the end of the movie I felt more sympathy toward Flash, who at LEAST was there for Peter and Gwen when it mattered. Peter just used his powers to abuse anyone he deemed unworthy. The way he treated the criminals he went after was much more akin to a high school bully picking on kids that are weaker than him, than the good natured banter we love Spidey for. The way he treats the cop who pulls a gun on him after he tortures the car thief is like that too. The police-officer is just doing his job. Peter did not have to be a dick to him.

re: Flash. Really? Didn't he beat the **** out of Pete and some other kid for no real reason at the beginning of the movie and break Pete's camera? I don't recall Pete returning the favor, despite the fact that he got super powers. I just remember him teasing the guy with a basketball.

Flash goes trough a character arc. He starts out as a mindless bully, but by the end of the movie he has shown to have a friendlier, sensitive side too. It is the opposite of the arc Peter goes through, who starts out as a awkward teen, but turns into an huge unlikable *sshole over the course of the movie.

re: The chocolate milk. I would have done the same thing. That guy was a dick. I would have been like "Yeah, well, you get what you deserve". And honestly, that tough **** mentality leading to Uncle Ben's death has been part of the character's origin since the start. If you don't like it, blame Lee and Ditko.

Really? You would accept chocolate milk from a guy ROBBING a store? I hope you won't mind at least a few days in jail, because you have just become an accomplice. Your prison-name will be Nesquik.
 
Even if I didn't mostly agree with robje, his passion would be enough to sway me against the poor responses made against him in this thread.
 
Making mistakes is different from being an *sshole. At the end of the movie I felt more sympathy toward Flash, who at LEAST was there for Peter and Gwen when it mattered. Peter just used his powers to abuse anyone he deemed unworthy. The way he treated the criminals he went after was much more akin to a high school bully picking on kids that are weaker than him, than the good natured banter we love Spidey for. The way he treats the cop who pulls a gun on him after he tortures the car thief is like that too. The police-officer is just doing his job. Peter did not have to be a dick to him.

Flash goes trough a character arc. He starts out as a mindless bully, but by the end of the movie he has shown to have a friendlier, sensitive side too. It is the opposite of the arc Peter goes through, who starts out as a awkward teen, but turns into an huge unlikable *sshole over the course of the movie.

No, Flash doesn't go through a character arc, Peter does. You caught part of Peter's arc (awkward teen to unlikeable jerk) but then missed the conclusion. Flash doesn't change, he is the mirror that's set up for Peter to see who he is and how he needs to grow.

At the beginning of the story Peter is a decent kid who doesn't like bullies and tries to do what is right, but he's basically powerless to do anything. Flash is the bully. He's stronger and more athletic and more popular than Peter, and he's a jerk. You're supposed to not like him.

Then Peter gets powers and he realizes that he doesn't need to take crap from anyone any more. He humiliates Flash and feels good about it. He doesn't understand why Uncle Ben is mad at him for what he did. All he can see is that Flash got what he deserved. He doesn't see that he has now become the bully. He hasn't used his powers to help any one, he's just using them to put down people he doesn't like... people he thinks deserve it.

Then he gets in trouble for not picking up Aunt May and gets the lecture about responsibility. Uncle Ben says, "Your father believed that if you could do good things for other people, you had the moral obligation to do so. It wasn't a choice; it was responsibility." (This, by the way wasnt just them changing the classic line for the sake of change, it fits the story.) Peter still doesn't get what Uncle Ben is saying. All he can see is that he's had a hard life and he has a right to be angry. And now that he has the power, he doesn't need to take crap from anyone, including lectures from his uncle. So he storms out. And yes, he is being a selfish jerk at this point.

Then there's the part with the store. Another guy is being a jerk to him so when he gets robbed he doesn't stop the shoplifter and even takes the stolen milk. The milk wasn't a bribe, it showed WHY Peter didn't care that the store got robbed. His philosophy of life is, "If you treat me badly don't expect me do do anything for you." Peter wasn't going to stop the shop lifter even before he threw him the milk. In Peter's mind the store owner deserved what he got, just like Flash did.

But then Uncle Ben lives out his philosophy of being obligated to do what is right and gets shot in the process. At this point Peter starts to get what Uncle Ben was talking about, and starts his journey toward being a hero, but he still acts out of anger and revenge against the killer rather than out of a sense of responsibility to help people.

At this point we see a different side to Flash, not because he has grown as a character, but because its significant to Peter's arc. Flash tries to show him sympathy and Peter slams him against the locker. Flash says, "Feels better, right?" This is to show that Peter isn't a hero at this point, he has become exactly what Flash is: a bully that takes his anger out on other people to try and make himself feel better. But Peter still doesn't get it.

So he goes out chasing down people who look like Uncle Ben's killer. He bullies them and takes his anger out on them, and in the process makes Aunt May's life even more of a nightmare b/c now she's worried about him. But Peter thinks he's doing the right thing, so when the cops give him a hard time, he is a jerk to them. When Captain Stacy badmouths Spider-Man, he talks back until Captain Stacy calls him out and tells Peter that Spider-Man is a vigilante with a vendetta who doesn't care about justice. Then Peter realizes that not only has he made a mess of meeting Gwen's family, but that Gwen's dad was absolutely right.

Then the Lizard attacks the bridge and he ACTUALLY helps people, and he gets it. He sees the difference between what he's been doing and what Uncle Ben did. So he abandons the search for the killer and goes after the lizard. And even after the lizard almost kills him, he still goes after him b/c he's realized that a) it's Dr Connors and he helped make him that way and b) only he can stop him, which both give him the responsibility to do so.

After that fight with Captain Stacy and the first encounter with the Lizard on the bridge, Peter stops acting like a jerk. His motives change and he becomes a true hero. When the dad asks him who he is, he doesn't mouth off to him like he has been doing, he says, "I'm Spider-Man." It took longer in this version, it was fleshed out more, but he still got there.

When we see Flash again and he and Peter seem to be friends, it's not because Flash has changed, it's because Peter has. We see Flash differently b/c Peter does. Peter understands him.

And sure, say what you like about Peter not being there for Gwen, but her dad put him in an impossible situation. Captain Stacy basically said, while he was dying, that Gwen would die too if Peter didn't stay away from her. And then he made him promise to do so. Peter wanted to be there for her, but he was trying to do the right thing. He didn't abandon her because he was being selfish, he avoided her because he was trying NOT to be selfish. And then he decided he couldn't do it. Maybe that was him reverting to selfishness, maybe it was Marc Webb not wanting his movie to end EXACTLY the same way Raimi's first movie did... Whatever, we know they had to get back together, and the promise to Captain Stacy was foreshadowing Gwen's inevitable death.

I really liked the story arc Peter went through. It made sense, it was a journey that was more complicated than the comic story, but was still faithful to it. They got Peter right (even if he wasn't likeable for a good chunk of the movie - he was on a journey, and he got there), they got Gwen right (and she never once screamed for Spider-Man to save her and actually was a hero herself), and they NAILED the awkward teen romance - it was perfectly done. The lizard story arc was lacklustre, the crane scene was so incredibly bad, but they got the characters right, and had some cool action sequences. I'm happy.
 
Last edited:
Canuck says it exactly right. This is why "with great power comes great responsibility" isn't *said*, its *done*. No one needs to say it because when Parker says on the bridge, "I'm Spider-Man" he *gets* it. If he was spoon-fed it and then parroted it (as he always does) the change is superficial. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN is a wonderfully observed, and in my opinion the best, version of Spidey's origin I've ever seen.
 
Canuck says it exactly right. This is why "with great power comes great responsibility" isn't *said*, its *done*. No one needs to say it because when Parker says on the bridge, "I'm Spider-Man" he *gets* it. If he was spoon-fed it and then parroted it (as he always does) the change is superficial. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN is a wonderfully observed, and in my opinion the best, version of Spidey's origin I've ever seen.

*Sound of Crickets cherping*
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Back
Top