TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
I wonder if my tastes suck or his dialogue in Dardevil isn't bad. I never hear any complaints about it and he's not writing teen/early 20's there.
The Bendis Debate
- Thread starter TheManWithoutFear
- Start date
Bass
Nexus of the World
UltimateE said:
Who doesn't like Watchmen?
Anyhow, the fact there is a Bass option to this thread, kinda says it all.
The thing I hate about Bendis is that he doesn't know how to write.
He can't write dialogue, he can't pace, and he can't end his stories without a deus ex machina as every run of Powers proved.
So basically, the guy wrote Ultimate Marvel Team-Up, Ultimate Spider-Man #1-25, Jinx, Daredevil #26-60(?), and Alias #1.
Which isn't a bad lot mind you, but they've all been out for at least two years - nothing since.
Victor Von Doom
Fist of teh Internets.
I enjoy some of his stuff. He is hit or miss though. He's kinda like Napoleon Dynamite---there is no middle ground. You love it or hate it. I love how he stretch a story out for a decent time frame.......but hate his anticlimatic endings.
compound
Well-Known Member
TheManWithoutFear said:
Favorite Bendis Titles
Powers: Season 1
Alias
his ENTIRE Daredevil run
Currently reading in single issues
- nil -
Curently reading in TPBs
Powers: Season 2
Currently reading via downloads or borrowed comics
USM
The Pulse
New Avengers
Underwhelming
UFF: The Fantastic (w/ Millar)
Mildly enjoyed
USM until "Carnage" -- particularly the arcs involving Gwen
Secret War until the extreme delays (#3 or so)
his UXM run
Didn't bother reading Disassembled or House Of M, because of the advanced/ongoing negative feedback, while they wer ebeign released, so I can't judge. I'd give them a chance, if I had the time AND access to a free copy (which I don't, at the moment).
Haven't read his independent crime stuff, but I'm looking forward to that even more. Alias was strengthened by all the fun ties to 616 continuity, but it ALSO read like a very strong detective story and character study, in its own right, so I have high expectations for Jinx, Goldfish, and Fire.
And yes, I believe there's a marked decline in the quality of his work, as he begins to take on more 'event' qualities.
He just doesn't have a solid grasp of big group/team dynamics -- his run on UXM is enough to prove that.
And he fares much better with stories about characters responding to a character (UMTU Super Special, the double-sized Daredevil anniversary issue with all the gust stars, House of M #1) rather than a situation (House of M the series, Disassembled), if that makes any sense.
Just curious... Did you start with Season One, Vol. 1 ("Who Killed Retro Girl?"), or just pick up a few single issues, along the way?UltimateE said:
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TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
Pretty much what I was looking for.compound said:
Guijllons
Well-Known Member
He's rather hit and miss for me. I do think his teen dialogue is pretty decent, but his story ideas suck. But then, I haven't spoken to a real life teen for quite some time.
And furthermore MWoF, how does the logic behind someone doing something better than another qualify them for being worthy of respect for what they do work?
Just for that statement he gets the "Bass" option. Though I was knocking Bendis way before Bass. He really does just copy me you know.
And furthermore MWoF, how does the logic behind someone doing something better than another qualify them for being worthy of respect for what they do work?
Just for that statement he gets the "Bass" option. Though I was knocking Bendis way before Bass. He really does just copy me you know.
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
Guijllons said:
It was just my retaliation for people claiming he sucks. Anyone on a given day can write a better story than someone. But if Bendis just so happens to write the better comic on that given day, does that mean the other guy sucks?
compound
Well-Known Member
My real problem with current Bendis material is that it's written in such a way that it requires you to have some degree of familiarty with shared-universe continuity that would be otherwise irrelevant to the series.
Compare his work on Daredevil with New Avengers.
Daredevil has all of his strengths -- stylized dialog, simple non-convoluted plotting, strong characterization -- and it happily acknowledges the rest of the MU, when it's necessary to do so (e.g. when the story calls for SHIELD to get involved), but it doesn't require an active knowledge of 616 to appreciate it. But otherwise, it's generally self-contained.
The Pulse and New Avengers, on the other hand, are built around events that happened in completely unrelated titles: Millar's Wolverine run, Secret War, the original Sentry mini, to name just a few. And it's much harder to make readers give a ****, as a result.
Those are somewhat understandbale (if not excusable), because Bendis is just letting his inner fanboy geek out a little. But incorporating key infromation and plot points from a completely different medium, like the USM video game, in order to understand the main comic? That's just inconsiderate and irresponsible, on so many levels.
Compare his work on Daredevil with New Avengers.
Daredevil has all of his strengths -- stylized dialog, simple non-convoluted plotting, strong characterization -- and it happily acknowledges the rest of the MU, when it's necessary to do so (e.g. when the story calls for SHIELD to get involved), but it doesn't require an active knowledge of 616 to appreciate it. But otherwise, it's generally self-contained.
The Pulse and New Avengers, on the other hand, are built around events that happened in completely unrelated titles: Millar's Wolverine run, Secret War, the original Sentry mini, to name just a few. And it's much harder to make readers give a ****, as a result.
Those are somewhat understandbale (if not excusable), because Bendis is just letting his inner fanboy geek out a little. But incorporating key infromation and plot points from a completely different medium, like the USM video game, in order to understand the main comic? That's just inconsiderate and irresponsible, on so many levels.
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compound said:
I didn't read any of Vol. 1. I started with Vol. 2 #1 and read through #6. I asked Bendis on his Q&A if I would be able to pick up on the story without having read Vol. 1 and he said yes. He was wrong. What I did figure out was only because I asked people specific questions.
Well, I like Bendis USM. Have all issues nicely stacked and reread them all once in a while. I was only really annoyed by him during the Wolverine, Dr Strange and Johnny Storm episode. The later was actually decent but I was aggravated by these 3short stories that contibuted little to the story and made me feel USM as I knew it was on hiatus for 4 months.
I gotta say that I came into comics through USM so it have a certain bias for it. Also, from my POV, the decompressed Bendis pacing is the default pacing so I have a high tolerance for it. But overall, USM has had a lot of cool moments, even during the weaker arcs, and I'll be sticking by it for a long time.
His UXM run wasn't too bad. Its reall weakness was that Blockbuster simply wasn't an X-Men story, which is kind of lame in a X-Men book. But overall, tying New Mutants with Blockbuster, I like the coup the story and the introduction of Dazzler and Angel.
I gotta say that I came into comics through USM so it have a certain bias for it. Also, from my POV, the decompressed Bendis pacing is the default pacing so I have a high tolerance for it. But overall, USM has had a lot of cool moments, even during the weaker arcs, and I'll be sticking by it for a long time.
His UXM run wasn't too bad. Its reall weakness was that Blockbuster simply wasn't an X-Men story, which is kind of lame in a X-Men book. But overall, tying New Mutants with Blockbuster, I like the coup the story and the introduction of Dazzler and Angel.
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compound
Well-Known Member
Oh, yeah, it's inaccessible in a million different ways.UltimateE said:
You need to be aware of:
(1) who Callista is, and how the previous Retro Girl died (season 1, vol. 1, "Who Killed Retro Girl?")
(2) the old superhero group that Walker used to be a member of, and how it fell apart (season 1, vol. 5, I think, "Supergroup")
(3) the incident with Supershock going nuts, and how it relates to Pilgrim's ordeal (season 1, vol. 6, "Sellouts")
(4) Walker's secret origin (season 1, vol. 7, "Forever")
In some ways, the first arc of Season 2, "Legends", is practically built on the events of the entire first season, which is otherwise fairly self-contained, even on an arc-to-arc basis.
Seriously, though, you ought to give it another chance. At least the first season. It's a lot more straightforward. My only problem is that it can ONLY be read in TPB format, because the issues are so decompressed, they feel slim and lacking in content, taken on their own. But the overall quality of the drama, and the characterization, and how well the events unfold, it all makes up for the generally predictable stories, and the characteristic use of ex machina as a plot device for resolving mysteries.
In that sense, I consider it the definitive Bendis title because it sums up all the best AND worst qualities of his writing style.
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TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
compound said:
I should just be like, "Yeah Daredevil rocks... good answer!" But....
What the hell? We want continuity, we want marvel universe to be a whole. That's why I like Bendis because I have to expand my knowledge of other comics to understand some of the subplots. You can't fault him for that.
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Bass said:
Comparing Brian Michael Bendis to Alan Moore is like comparing Jerry Farwell to Jesus Christ.
They're not even on the same playing field.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Dr.Strangefate said:
I wasn't comparing. Someone stated that nothing is universally liked/hated and I asked "Who hates Watchmen" somewhat rhetorically since it seems universally loved.
TheManWithoutFear said:
Fair enough. Consider peoples critiques/disgust for his work as retaliations for people claiming he's one of the best writers in the industry.
Also, I severely doubt that anyone judges Bendis on an 'any given day' basis. For me, it's quite simple. In the last two years, Bendis has taken on more and more high-profile projects that impact multiple titles handled by other people, doubled his output, yet, has failed to write more than half a dozen issues in that time that weren't absolutely atrocious and unreadable.
This isn't suddenly turning around and hating the guy for Ultimate Spider-Man #63, but judging his work on a scale based on the quality and the amount of comics he's produced over his career, and how there is a definate shift within his quality of work towards the atrocious within the last couple of years.
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Bass
Nexus of the World
Yep. Bendis went through 'em all.
Nurhachi
Well-Known Member
Dr.Strangefate said:
Yeah! Bendis is way better!
Ultimate Quicksilver
Well-Known Member
Nurhachi said:
....*slaps Nurhachi*
randomthoughts
Active Member
Dr.Strangefate said:
This is a poor point to begin with Bass, we're comparing writers not their works. I think anyone would struggle to dislike Bendis' "Torso".
You should have said who dislikes any of Moores work, to which I'd reply "V for Vendetta" aint that great.
On topic I currently read USM, NA, DD and will pick up HoM in trade. The books I'm reading are all of a high quality at the moment, and once he gives DC a try and we see an expansive body of work so a comparison to Moore is actually fair, I'll probably worship them in the same spectrum.
He's totally unfairly hounded by "I h8 Bendis bandwagon"!
