The Bendis Debate

[compound]

What the hell? We want continuity, we want marvel universe to be a whole. That's why I like Bendis because I have to expand my knowledge of other comics to understand some of the subplots. You can't fault him for that.

Well, it all depends on WHAT KIND of continuity you're after, really.

Take Alias. That is an example of getting it right. One story has Jessica Jones investigating Rick Jones, and in order to give us an appreciation of who he is and what he's been through, we get a combination of Jessica's interaction with key Avengers supporting characters as well as excellently written excerpts from Rick Jones' book, which establish (a) his personality, as a former super hero sidekick, and (b) his role in the intergalacticKree-Skrull War, which is essential to the plot, despite the fact that it's a groudned, realistic detective story. That's a wonderful example of using Marvel continuity and inter-connectedness to the advance the story in an interesting way.

Now compare that with House Of M, which establishes a new status quo for just about every major character in the contemporary Marvel Universe, all of which are completely dull without ANY prior fore-knowledge of the diverse titles. There's no drama in Emma Frost being a successful teacher, if you don't realize just how many dead students she has in 'mainstream' continuity (and there are A LOT... off the top of my head: the original Hellions form New Mutants in the 80s, the telepaths on Genosha, and 2 out of 5 Stepford Cuckoos in New X-Men, plus Skin and Synch in Generation X). Bendis never provided any indication of that, so an unfamiliar reader ends up thinking, "Okay? So she's a teacher. Now what?" And I'm not even going to pretend that I understand why I'm supposed to care about the Sentry in House of M. That's just building on continuity for the sake of it.

See the difference?

 

[MoS]

This is a poor point to begin with Bass, we're comparing writers not their works. I think anyone would struggle to dislike Bendis' "Torso".

You should have said who dislikes any of Moores work, to which I'd reply "V for Vendetta" aint that great.

Bass was responding to something that I said about no comic and no writer being universally loved, which is not quite the context you've put it in here.

On topic I currently read USM, NA, DD and will pick up HoM in trade. The books I'm reading are all of a high quality at the moment, and once he gives DC a try and we see an expansive body of work so a comparison to Moore is actually fair, I'll probably worship them in the same spectrum.

He's totally unfairly hounded by "I h8 Bendis bandwagon"!

I don't think that those of us who have taken the time to express why we're not fond of some of Bendis' work count as "bandwagon" jumpers. You're saying that you feel that all of his work is high quality - we're saying that some of it is not. It's a matter of opinion and we took the time to say why, and what we base that on, at least. I do find that the one-sentence "Bendis sucks" internet debates are a bit tiresome - but I also find the "Bendis rox" stuff equally as bad.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Well, it all depends on WHAT KIND of continuity you're after, really.

Take Alias. That is an example of getting it right. One story has Jessica Jones investigating Rick Jones, and in order to give us an appreciation of who he is and what he's been through, we get a combination of Jessica's interaction with key Avengers supporting characters as well as excellently written excerpts from Rick Jones' book, which establish (a) his personality, as a former super hero sidekick, and (b) his role in the intergalacticKree-Skrull War, which is essential to the plot, despite the fact that it's a groudned, realistic detective story. That's a wonderful example of using Marvel continuity and inter-connectedness to the advance the story in an interesting way.

Now compare that with House Of M, which establishes a new status quo for just about every major character in the contemporary Marvel Universe, all of which are completely dull without ANY prior fore-knowledge of the diverse titles. There's no drama in Emma Frost being a successful teacher, if you don't realize just how many dead students she has in 'mainstream' continuity (and there are A LOT... off the top of my head: the original Hellions form New Mutants in the 80s, the telepaths on Genosha, and 2 out of 5 Stepford Cuckoos in New X-Men, plus Skin and Synch in Generation X). Bendis never provided any indication of that, so an unfamiliar reader ends up thinking, "Okay? So she's a teacher. Now what?" And I'm not even going to pretend that I understand why I'm supposed to care about the Sentry in House of M. That's just building on continuity for the sake of it.

See the difference?

Just so I get it straight.. your first example is more on a personal scale delving into the history and the second is a larger broader "Your expected to know" deal and that's what you have a problem with?

 

[compound]

Just so I get it straight.. your first example is more on a personal scale delving into the history and the second is a larger broader "Your expected to know" deal and that's what you have a problem with?

Yup, more or less. And usually, the more of an 'event' it is (e.g. Disassembled, House Of M), the more dull and inaccessible it becomes, due to excessive cross-referencing of past continuity. Hence my general dissatisfaction with Bendis' more recent work, because that's what he seems to be focusing on lately.

And while he generally fares alright with ad-hoc or makeshift groups like in Secret War, he seriously falters when he's expected to write stories for established groupings. For what it's worth, I plan to give Illuminati a chance, only because I like how he writes Dr. Strange (and besides, they're not a formal team, anyway) but I'm hoping -- quite unreasonably, I suspect -- that it will be a complete story in itself rather than just a prelude to "Planet Hulk".

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Well I guess I understand but from my standpoint disagree. It sucks for a guy who wants to focus solely on his own titles. And I see where Bendis is wrong in trying to throw EVERYTHING together.

As for me I like the whole not knowing stuff. It makes me look it up.

 

[plastikpulse]

I think Bendis is a brilliant writer. He can get depth of emotion out of his characters and make them completely real instead of just some two dimensional superhero stereotype. He's concerned with character first and superhero second. That's what makes USM such a great title, everyone can totally relate to Peter and the stuff he goes through. He's just a regular high school kid who also happens to be a super hero. Bendis' work on DD is amazing as well, really bringing out all the grit that character can inspire. I though House of M was great, it really turned everything around, which the mutant titles were really needing, I don't think Grant Morrison did anything for the X titles. And I like the New Avengers as well, and Avengers: Disassembled. How can anyone say Bendis doesn't deliver?

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Mark... :wink:

 

[plastikpulse]

Mark?

 

[Ice]

Welcome Plastikpulse!

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Yeah......welcome.

I was just saying "mark" because of your uber-pro Bendis post. I was just being sarcastic so don't take it to heart.

Mostly everyone here likes Bendis......they just have some same gripes about his stuff (.....well except Bass---he hopes Bendis dies in a fiery circus accident involving clowns, elephants, and the bearded-woman, only to spend the next million years of eternity subjected to his own "so-called" witty humor being read by Joan Rivers and Cary Elwes while being eerily ogled by the Kingpin and a leather-encompassed gimp).

:lol:

 

[plastikpulse]

Sounds like you've got a little something against Bendis, too. What does Mark mean exactly? Mark Millar?

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Actually no. I love Bendis's work. Sometimes he gets too high on his pedestal....but for the most part---I dig his work.

Mark is another term for someone who is an uber-fan. Someone who loves another person's work so much that it borders on worshipping them. Like in the fan's eyes...the person they worship can do no wrong.

It's a term used in wrestling and in the entertainment world a lot. Like wrestling for example----Eric Bischoff and Jonathan Coachman are marks for Vince McMahon.


Don't worry dude---I was being sarcastic and it was meant to be taken as a joke.

 

[plastikpulse]

Oh, I wasn't offended, I just didn't understand the term. But I wouldn't classify myself as a Bendis worshipper. I think he's done some really great stuff, but I wouldn't support him if he started pumping out crap. I do respect him because I think he's got a good bead on what makes comics good. He's all about the story, and I think that's important.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Re: Generation X #1 Preview.

Bendis needs to be fired.


Out of a cannon and into the sun.

BWAHAHAHA!!!! This is what I said in another thread about Bendis...

Mostly everyone here likes Bendis......they just have some same gripes about his stuff (.....well except Bass---he hopes Bendis dies in a fiery circus accident involving clowns, elephants, and the bearded-woman, only to spend the next million years of eternity subjected to his own "so-called" witty humor being read by Joan Rivers and Cary Elwes while being eerily ogled by the Kingpin and a leather-encompassed gimp).

The Other Thread

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

Re: Generation X #1 Preview.

This is why I love Compound.


Bendis needs to be fired.


Out of a cannon and into the sun.

No, this would be a quick and painles death :roll:

 

[plastikpulse]

Is the a Millar Debate thread? That's where I really need to be. I can only say so many good things about Bendis (he's totally awesome!), but I have any number of bad things to say about Millar.

 

[Pandrio]

Is the a Millar Debate thread? That's where I really need to be. I can only say so many good things about Bendis (he's totally awesome!), but I have any number of bad things to say about Millar.

Do you read Ultimates?

 

[plastikpulse]

nope.

 

[Pandrio]

nope.

Then read it.

 

[plastikpulse]

Don't want to. If Millar is still writing it then I won't read it. I read Ultimate X-Men when it first came out because I love Adam Kubert's art, but after a while I just couldn't take the writing anymore. Same with the Marvel Knights Spider-Man 12 issue arc with Millar writing. Terrible.